CT The Mythical Hero's Journey in A New Hope

As we all know, Lucas structured A New Hope to follow the mythical hero's journey exactly and the film references thousands of ancient and contemporary myths and it's setting is a mixture of almost every mythical setting there is such as the ancient Middle-East (Tatooine), middle-ages (knights and wizards), ancient Japan (Darth Vader's armor looks like a samurai's and he has a sword), the wild-west (bounty hunters, deserts and saloons) WW2 (aerial assaults, the Empire) etc.
All of the characters in A New Hope are based on archetypal mythical characters, such as the hero (Luke), the wise old man (Obi-Wan), the Princess (Leia), the rogue (Han), the servants (C3PO and R2), the oppressive uncle (Owen), the fallen knight (Vader) etc.
But the other two films in the trilogy completely move away from this mythical structure and flesh out and add depth and originality to all of the characters, they also subvert the mythical archetypes by making Darth Vader Luke's father and and Leia Luke's sister. The other two films take on a life and structure of their own, completely separate from the mythical structure of A New Hope.
My question is; what was the meaning of this? Was this an attempt to make some kind of commentary on myths? Or did Lucas simply only intend to make one Star Wars film, which was based on myths, and then after its success he decided to take to more but realised that continuing the mythical structure would be too difficult and so decided to do his own thing instead? Because sometimes when I watch the trilogy all in own sitting the seems to be real disconnect between the first film and the other two, because A New Hope is a self-contained myth and then the other two work towards subverting and changing it.

Also, this is my first time posting here.

 

Sorry for all the typos, should've proof-read that before posting it

 

No, the trilogy as a whole (as well as ANH itself) follows the Heroes Journey. Nor do the archetypes really change...

 

How so? The Hero's father being killed was an archetype but that got changed by the fallen knight being Luke's father, which is another subversion, and then the princess being the hero's sister goes against the archetypes as well. There's also the fact that the hero goes against the wise old man's guidance (Episode V) and it still turns out okay, and rather than defeat the monster who guards the main villain (Vader) the hero offers forgiveness, which the monster accepts.
I admit that many mythical setting and themes come into play in the other two films, such as the natives beating the technologically advanced invaders (Endor), the temptations of the hero (Emperor), the dark cave (Dagobah), the destruction of the homeland which triggers a journey into the unknown (Episode V) and the hero's return to his homeland with new powers (Episode VI) but the characters no longer feel like archetypes to me, they feel more real and original and the structure of the two films take on a life of their own

 

Obi-Wan in ANH (in a figurative sense) and it is still there as a metaphor (as Anakin). Not to mention Owen and Beru as well as Padme. Archetypes aren't necessarily as cut and dry.

Again, the archetype remains it just has this added dimension...

No it doesn't turn out okay...

Fair enough, but this isn't part of the basic Hero's Journey, just a common aspect. The monster can also be seen as being defeated just not killed... Not to mention the Rancor and Jabba...

That's just because you know the characters better...

 

Han, the rogue, ends up being a pretty nice guy who fights for a cause and tries to treat his woman right. Obi-Wan, the wise old man, ends up being slightly controversial due to how he lied to the hero, Leia, the princess, ends up getting bloodied and dirty by fighting in Endor and even kills Jabba, the evil captor who lives in a castle, herself, rather than get the hero to do it, C3PO, the servant is worshiped as a god, Vader, the fallen knight is redeemed and kills the main villain, and Luke, the hero renounces violence and instead offers forgiveness, he also ends up with no lover, which also goes against tradition

 

You haven't really addressed the Heroes Journey only 'Archetypes'.

Obi-Wan acts as both. And Anakin is the father, Vader the dark-father.

Not really - she is still elusive with class difference. You're right he doesn't get with the princess, and this is different than typically archetypes, but it doesn't really change the core archetype.

No it is the 'bottom' of Luke's journey. Also known as the 'Abyss' in the monomyth. He gets his hand cut off, is defeated, his friend is captured and it is revealed the Vader is his father...

Defeat the monster does not mean 'kill' always.

Just because they aren't one-dimentional doesn't mean they don't fit the archetypes... I mean even in traditional stories the archetypes are often shifted throughout the story to emphasis the original archetype. Not to mention archetypes are, inherently, the basic form of a character, therefore no character fits it perfectly really. Apart from Leia which, I admit, is an attempt to modernise a rather sexist archetype.

 

As for Hero's journey, A New Hope follows it perfectly except that the hero doesn't return home at the end, the beginning middle and end are all there in the first film. The other two might have other mythical elements in them but the hero's journey is still over, so they are just an addition to it, that's how it feels anyway.

 

Except all three films follow it also - ANH is a mini-Heroes Journey and falls into the 'Call to Adventure - Road of Trials' in a broader context...

 

Would you mind detailing how the other two films fit with the Hero's Journey structurally?

 

The Call to Adventure: Leia's message
Refusal of the Call: "I can't go I need to help my uncle"
Supernatrual Aid: Lightsaber and Obi-Wan
Crossing the Threshold: The Cantina
Belly of the Whale: Millennium Falcon and the Death Star
The Road of Trials: Trench Run, the Wampa, Battle of Hoth and Daogoba
The Meeting with the Godess: The Love of his Friends
Woman as the Temptress: The Cave and leaving to save his friends
Atonement of the Father: Duel at Bespin
Apotheosis: 'Death' of Han and Death of Yoda and Obi-Wan

Luke fails at this point and essentially has to retake the trials.

The Meeting with the Godess: The Love of his Friends and Father.
Woman as the Temptress: The Emperor
Atonement of the Father: Duel on the Death Star
Apotheosis: Death of Anakin
The Ultimate Boon: Victory, redemption of Vader

The following is not explored because there is no return:

Refusal of the Return
The Magic Flight
The Crossing of the Return Threshold
Master of the Two Worlds
Freedom to Live

 

Okay, I see, and I suppose the reason A New Hope has a happy, definitive ending, was just in case the other two films didn't end up being made? That makes sense actually, thanks.

 

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars."

--George Lucas, Flaws In A Good Heart, LA Times Article, 2002.

"I tried, in my going through mythology, to distill down into certain basic ideas things that seem to exist in a great deal of mythology. Again, to try to find the themes and ideas that continue over a great amount of time and across a wide spectrum of cultures. The Force is a result of that. The Force is the way that many people view the great mysteries of “Is there other realities at work other than the one we can perceive.” I think that the Force represents life—I mean another way to describe it is “life-force.” It’s the spirit of life rather than the physical manifestation of it."

--George Lucas, Laserdisc Commentary, Star Wars Trilogy Definitive Collection, 1993

"Ultimately the Force is the larger mystery of the universe. And to trust your feelings is your way into that. It is an issue of quieting your mind so that you can listen to yourself, and as Joe [Campbell] would say, “Follow your bliss.” It’s to follow your talent, is one way to put it. That’s the way I see it. The hardest thing to do when you are young is to figure out what it is you’re going to do, and you’ll never know what it is you’re going to do. But if you follow the things you enjoy… I’m not sure anyone really enjoys making money; they may enjoy what they do after they’ve made it, but they don’t enjoy the process. If you can find something that you actually enjoy in the process, then you have found your bliss.

They try to show us our place. Myths help you to have your own hero’s journey, find your individuality, find your place in the world, but hopefully remind you that you’re part of a whole and that you must also be part of the community and think of the welfare of the community above the welfare of yourself."

--George Lucas, “The Mythology of Star Wars,” Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001


You should read this Time Magazine article from 1999, where Lucas was being interviewed by Bill Moyers about TPM and the OT.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,23298,00.html

But highlights include...

MOYERS: Joseph Campbell once said all the great myths, the ancient great stories, have to be regenerated in every generation. He said that's what you are doing with Star Wars. You are taking these old stories and putting them into the most modern of idioms, the cinema. Are you conscious of doing that? Or are you just setting out to make a good action-movie adventure?

LUCAS: With Star Wars I consciously set about to re-create myths and the classic mythological motifs. I wanted to use those motifs to deal with issues that exist today. The more research I did, the more I realized that the issues are the same ones that existed 3,000 years ago. That we haven't come very far emotionally.


MOYERS: You're creating a new myth?

LUCAS: I'm telling an old myth in a new way. Each society takes that myth and retells it in a different way, which relates to the particular environment they live in. The motif is the same. It's just that it gets localized. As it turns out, I'm localizing it for the planet. I guess I'm localizing it for the end of the millennium more than I am for any particular place.

MOYERS: What lessons do you think people around the world are taking away from Star Wars?

LUCAS: Star Wars is made up of many themes. It's not just one little simple parable. One is our relationship to machines, which are fearful, but also benign. Then there is the lesson of friendship and symbiotic relationships, of your obligations to your fellow- man, to other people that are around you. This is a world where evil has run amuck. But you have control over your destiny, you have many paths to walk down, and you can choose which destiny is going to be yours.

LUCAS: Most myths center on a hero, and it's about how you conduct yourself as you go through the hero's journey, which in all classical myth takes the form of a voyage of transformation by trials and revelations. You must let go of your past and must embrace your future and figure out what path you're going to go down.

MOYERS: Wendy Doniger, who is a scholar of mythology at the University of Chicago, says that myths are important because they remind us that our lives are real and our lives are not real. We have these bodies, which we can touch, but we also have within us this omnipotent magical world of thought.

LUCAS: Myths tell us these old stories in a way that doesn't threaten us. They're in an imaginary land where you can be safe. But they deal with real truths that need to be told. Sometimes the truths are so painful that stories are the only way you can get through to them psychologically.

 

You can take the Hero's Journey, and use it as a formula, and come out with a horrible mess that is crap to watch. (Phantom Menace)
A New Hope was Lightning in a bottle.
Lucas never really was able to achieve it again.
ESB does not fit the Journey as well as some will try to force upon it.
ESB is a tragedy.
It was a chase story which ended with Solo in peril and Luke defeated in every way.
But I think the strongest element of ESB is we were allowed to take a closer peek at Vader. Remember, in ANH, he was this very 2 dimensional antagonist. And that's okay, all he had to be was a mysterious supporting roll.
Yes, once again, you can place all of the elements of the Heroes journey on ESB, but it reaches at some points.
Plus, Luke didn't have the major hang up which most people related to in ANH, which was a dream of something more.
Then, ROTJ, which, still makes me sad. It all turned south there, didn't it.
I will let every rant ever written about that train wreck speak for me.

 

ANH is now, in the context of the whole saga, a journey within a journey. ANH and TESB, together, are to a lesser extent a self contained story involving one hero. From "I am your father" onwards, a new story begins to be told, with a new hero. The original hero becomes a bit player.

 

I really don't feel the 'Hero's Journey' is restricted solely to SW nor do I think it was executed or presented very well throughout the Saga as it became in either case. Particularly Anakin's.

 

I don't see how. The only difference is that the hero becomes the villain.

-Call To Adventure: Anakin is a slave who enjoys pod racing. He's told about Qui-gon and Padme's situation and decides to help them by entering and winning the Boonta Eve Classic.

-Refusal Of The Call: Anakin doesn't want to leave because it means leaving Shmi behind and being alone without her.

-Supernatural Aid: Anakin destroys the Federation ship because of his strong connection to the Force. Later on, he sees Qui-gon Jinn on Mortis.

-Crossing The First Threshold: Anakin goes to Coruscant, then to Naboo.

-Belly Of The Whale: Anakin is accepted into the Jedi Order and trains to be a Jedi.

-Road Of Trials: Anakin's participation in the Clone Wars, the Tusken Slaughter, killing Dooku and marrying Padme.

-Meeting With The Goddess: He meets Padme in Watto's shop. Learns that she is a queen. Develops an attachment to her. Falls in love and gets married.

-Temptation: Anakin is offered the ability to cheat death by joining Palpatine. This is where Anakin's journey as a hero stops, because he falls to the dark side.

-Atonement: That is until he faces Luke and sees himself in the boy and sees that he is worth saving. He atones with Obi-wan when he dies a good man.

-Rescue From Without: Luke pleads with Anakin to give up the dark side and become the man that he was once before. His example stands out for him.

-Apostasis, The Ultimate Boon, Mastering The Boon and Freedom To Live: Anakin finds balance within himself when he decides to save Luke and in turn, Anakin is able to retain his identity thanks to Obi-wan and Yoda. He is no longer afraid of death, nor entrapped by the visions of the future. He lets go of his past and accepts what is.

 

Why would he?

He did that already with TPM it was time to do something along those lines but different.

That was the point.