The Mythology of ATTACK OF THE CLONES

In a recent article posted at theforce.net, a film reviewer discusses the "modern mythmaking" aspect of the STAR WARS Saga, and complains (rightfully, IMO) that few, if any, movie critics realize (or comprehend) the true mythic scope of Lucas' six-part masterpiece. When reviewers do recognize STAR WARS' poetic, archetypal qualities, they do so begrudgingly, as if they don't really "get it" and are only paying lip service to the idea.

It seems to me this is a lack of insight--not only among critics, but among the filmgoing public in general, and indeed, among STAR WARS fans themselves. The mythic connections the Saga has to the tales of heroism and mysticism the world over is often lost on the very people who devote their free time to it--that's you and me, brothers and sisters!

So, with this thread, I propose to discuss the mythology of STAR WARS, paying particular attention to Episode II. AOTC's mythopoeic images/events/characters have not yet fully revealed themselves to me; I hope that others can help me point out similarities with other, older legends, myths, and fairy tales.

I'll begin with an observation from the aforementioned reviewer: that Anakin's descent into the Tusken encampment from an overlooming cliff, is like a fall from grace in the Japanese tradition. To this I would add that Lucifer's own fall from heaven would be the Judeo-Christian equivalent of this idea, the brightest angel becoming prideful and falling out of heaven.

Any more mythic resonances in AOTC?

 

I, personally, would equate Anakins fall, not to Lucifer....but to mankind itself, in the Christian tradition. Because unlike Lucifer, Anakin is redeemed by his son. Get it, the "son of man" AKA: Jesus.....

But that's just my take on things.....

 

Yes, Jazz, that's a good point. Anakin is redeemed by his son in the same way that mankind is redeemed by Jesus in the Christian tradition. Lucifer himself is never redeemed, but chooses wickedness and damnation even when the final days come.

I think it's relevant to point out here that the second and third drafts of the original STAR WARS began with this quote: "And in the time of greatest despair there shall come a savior and he shall be known as: THE SON OF THE SUN."

Neat, huh?

 

Do Critics just not understand the mythology

Anakin and Lucifer

What does "Bring balance to the force mean?"

Is Akira Kurosawa the key?

Ex-Jedi Knights make better Sith Lords, than one brought up as a Sith in terms of revenge.

The prophecy is coming true

Answer the Question: So what path should Anakin have taken/done when his mother died??

Does Palpatine believe that Anakin is the Chosen One?


Dooku the wicked Sith of the West.
Blade Runner
Cyberpunk / Sci-Fi Star Wars !
Influences and References in AotC
Anybody else notice the film noir elements in Attack of the Clones?
Vietnam war connection
AOTC: too many real life / american references?
AOTC Homage Movies - list them!
strange parallels between AOTC and "war against terror"


And of course:
**Official** MEDIA reviews of AOTC -- your reactions
Official *** I've seen the movie, here are my thoughts**** thread

 

pooh, this thread is DISCUSSING the mythology, not the critics reaction to it.......that is all

 

Jazz I really like your methods so hear me out:

Unlike certain people that post to redirect threads for no other purpose than power...I leave locking to other people's discretion.

My posts are a stack of cards. I see no reason for a discussion to go unaided by the hundreds of posts that people have written that I think are applicable to the discussion. Rather than write on and on at length I post for two reasons:

1 Does the initial poster believe the thread is redundant...if so, she/he can stop

OR

2. These other discussions could be a great aide to continuing discussion.

That's my intent. That is all. I gave up trying to redirect people a long time ago!

 

A long time ago......


nevermind...thanks, pooh....you really are a life save (no pun intended)

 

Darth_pooh, thank you for posting a link to the "critics' misunderstanding" thread. It is an interesting read, if only three posts long and not exactly a heated or on-going debate. And, despite the way my original post, above, begins, my intention is not to discuss critics. Rather, I have used this one reviewer's insight as a springboard to discuss the mythology of STAR WARS, specifically where it regards Episode II.

To continue, IfAnakinLikedJazz has noted that Anakin is like mankind and Luke can be compared with Jesus. My only conclusion is to draw a connection between the Emperor and Satan: Lucifer, the angel who fell and never rose again to the light.

 

ahh crap, I missed this thread when I looked. Sorry. Can any powerful moderator move my thread into this one?

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=7166487&replies=1

 

The OT had many symbols of being consumed or swallowed. In these prequals the focus had shifted to paralels and symbiosis.

Living things and the Midis.

The dark underbelly of Coruscant and the shining light of its tower tops.

The shining center of the galactic senate, with evil at its ruling core.

The Living Force and the Unifying Force symbolised by Anakin wielding the green and blue lightsabers against Dooku.

Yoda himself is a living symbiosis. He is pherhaps the most powerful, most skilled warrior, but does so only if needed without the need for celebration of his own self. Ying and Yang at its finest within Yoda.

Just a few things I noticed.

 

Vortigern99

I actually edited my post and added some more links for you, and I'll tell you why:

I agree with you 100%. Someone started a post on "Anakin and Lucifer" - I've added it. It's not very good because the question comes down to whether we mean Christian Lucifer, or Miltonian Lucifer = the suffering character.

Actually, Ian McDiarmid, the guy who plays Palpatine is a serious scholar as well as an actor - As are most British actors of Shakespeare.

And he gave an intense lecture on that Iago-esque character of Palpatine. His interview I include here for your perusal:

Star Wars Official Site's Interview with Ian McDiarmid (a.k.a. Senator Palpatine): Interview


When looking at the series through myth: there is also the question of "Ultimate Evil" and our new society's belief "today" that criminals are very often pre-conditioned by their upbringing psychologically.

In ancient myth - often choosing the wrong was a rational/emotional, personal, choice and the full weight of the choice was on the actor herself/himself. This had the makings of tragedy. Not so today!

Furthermore, what is ultimate evil? Does such Evil seek the destruction of all life, to return it to cosmic dust? Does it have no conscience at all? Not even a kernel? Contrast Vader (a kernel) with the Emperor.

Or does ultimate 'coscience-less' evil only exit to blow up one planet (Alderran) so as to drive people into a life of living fear and domination - i.e. life= hell! 1984?

Add on top of that the modern influences on Lucas that I posted: The dry decadence of "Nouveau-Noir" and "film noir." Blade-Runner.

Add in the clashing mentality of 50's burger joints, fastcars, and homogoneous "Mary Tyler Moore," segregated America, when everyone shared a common, restricted existence. The 50's -when there was no "relativity of outlook".

Collide that mentality with the Illiad, modern moral relativism and you get a gigantic picture to tackle. I don't know if even Lucas can do all that. He spends more time on CGI!

Not to mention the influence of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, Zen, and Tantric Buddhism over the last 40 years. Tibet, where young boddhisatvas (taken and reared in childhood, much as the Jedi) are taught to work tirelessly and with compassion for people's enlightenment.

Eastern religion both in its deep form, and in its popular form: "crystals" and "pilates" (exercise Yoga) have changed pretty much everything about how we think! And probably influenced Lucas!

That's all I have to say.

 

I am well versed in the Christian Faith....and parallels there are many in SW....i am still trying to fit Obi-Wan into the Picture.....any thoughts??

 

To echo VadersLaMent:

The color of the saber tossed to Anakin in the arena: Green. The sabre color of the experienced, powerful Jedi. Symbolising, maybe, his readiness to do battle in the cause of justice, this once. Or at least his capacity to battle for right.

The colors are meaningful in the prequel films, I believe. See how Obi-Wan kills Darth Maul with Qui-Gon's green sabre, the sabre of a Jedi fully trained, a Jedi mature.

Perhaps I'm too much the Star Wars fan, ever ready to read what I wish into these facets. I also think it's interesting that Obi-Wan gets a blue sabre in the arena. Blue being the color an apprentice typically wields.

Obi-Wan seems almost weaker at the end. It takes longer for him to find safety in the arena. He jumps on *behind* Anakin to find some refuge.

But what do I know?

 

This particular idea that I'm about to add has been brought up in this forum before AOTC's release, but for the sake of this discussion to those who avoide spoilers, I think it bears repeating again:

Geonosis, the rocky, hot, gaseous planet = Hell

Geonosians = demons, crawling out of every nook and cranny of hell

Though this is not mythology, the execution arena could represent the old Roman execution cermemonies where Christians were disembowled by animals. In this case, Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan = Christians. The arena monsters = execution animals.

And, though many equate Palpatine with the devil, it has also been discussed that Dooku would be a devil-like character. Lucifer was a fallen angel, good at one time and the guardian of God's throne. Dooku was a good Jedi at one time, and thus a guardian of peace and justice. Like Lucifer, Dooku doesn't use outright evil to deceive. Instead, he uses half-truths and subtle lies, manipulating man's weak points (just as Dooku tried to manipulate Obi-Wan and even Padme in the cut scene)

 

Kee, that is a great point of Dooku being the deceiver.

Palpatine himself is of course the ultimate deciever however. It is he who corupts those around him, using Dooku, Jar Jar, the Senate and ultimatley Anakin to his OWN ends. They themselves believe they will eventually usurp the Deceiver, but that they won't (exept of course Anakin in ROTJ) is the highest deception.

The master takes a pupil, the pupil will destroy the master to then take on a pupil of their own who will then destroy that master and so on. Palpatine takes on pupils, only to have them used up and eliminated as needed.

Not only is that temptation of eventual power that which leads them to the Darkside, but also a test of sorts. Only the strongest, the most deceptive, the most clever will take the place of the master.

Obi Wan's place in this is what it was in the OT as a spirit guide. In ANH Luke is the shining hero of the sun who's spirit guide sets him off on his quest. He loses the guide and must now fend for himself.

Obi Wan is at this point Anakin's spirit guide. It is another GL made paralel.

The differance? In the PT Anakin (as stated by GL) will make the wrong choices. In the OT it is Luke who will make the right choices.

Obi Wan has his own redemtion in the OT. He may have seen himself as a failure with Anakin, whereas he will triumph through his offspring in the OT.

 

I also think it's interesting that Obi-Wan gets a blue sabre in the arena.

Obi-Wan always has a blue saber and Lucas has said the colors don't actually mean anything, other than Red means the Sith. Green, Blue, Purple...it's all the same really. And Blue is actually "purer" on the spectrum than Green. Blue and Violet are at the opposite end from Red. Blue is a primary color.

 

Kamino is in essence Cloud city. A place a beauty and light, which hides a dark purpose.

From the Art of AOTC: "Lucas envisioned Kamino as a stormy environment outside but with bright and etheral inner-city spaces."

It then has three depths; the stormy outside, the etheral city, the hidden darkness. This is more than likley unintentional use of the mystcal numbering of "3", but just something I noticed.

The apperance of the Kaminoans matches the modern mythology of alien visitations. The Kaminoans don't do any abductions, but they perform "experiments" on living things as the "Grays" do.

This is a good thread Vortigern, its something I'd like to show to certain critics who apparently missed these ideals.

 

Insightful posts from VadersLament, Darth_Pooh, Twink_Kee, and all others! I respond particularly to the idea of Dooku as a Satanic figure; but, as was pointed out, Sidious is the ultimate Satan, and pretenders to the throne--Dooku among them--are merely demons scrambling for a bone.

VadersLament said:

"The apperance of the Kaminoans matches the modern mythology of alien visitations. The Kaminoans don't do any abductions, but they perform 'experiments' on living things as the 'Grays' do."

That's an intriguing observation, VL. Here we see our own mondern-world nightmares of scientist-aliens, manipulating our genetic material (probably remnants of ancient fears, played out according to the current cultural motifs), find their way into the modern myth of STAR WARS. It seems like a perfect fit, though if you'd told me twenty years ago that Spielbergesque "Close Encounter" aliens would be seen someday in a STAR WARS movie, I'm not sure I would've believed you!

 

Great thread Vortigern.

Personally I can see parallels from the Book Of Revelations, and I think Sidious/Palpatine is a pretty clear Antichrist figure.

Some quotes (Rev, Ch13):
"...and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"
(Palpatine crushes all with his Clone Army)


"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
(Wipes out the Jedi and consolidates power)

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."
(Vader - dunno about the horns, but he speaks kind of like a dragon)


"And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast..."
(Vader uses the dark side to enforce the rule of the Emperor)

"And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in sight of men"
(Shoots at stuff with the Death Star)

I am no scholar, and I basically spend five minutes scanning for relevent quotes, but the similarities are there for all to see...

 

Cool CC-Dude, thats good stuff.

Sidenote for the Death Star: It has three representations in the OT. One is the corruption of values, the inanimate against the living. If Geonosis is a representation of Hell, it is then this Hell that gives birth to the breath of the Dragon(superlaser).

Also the DS is symbolized as a labrynth, a maze where the hereos go to confront evil to rescue another bringer of light in Princess Leia.

It is also becomes the Underworld itself in ROTJ. Luke descends into its depths to confront the ruler of evil.

Just occured to me. Anakin succumbs to the Darkside; his journey through evil is a trip to Pergatory before he is ultimatley redeemed by Luke.

Many people have a slight problem with Vaders redemption in that he had a hand in the killing of millions or even billions and yet we celebrate him as a hero.

Vader's redmption is NOT a social one, it is a personal one.

 

Of course, like in ESB, we have the scene where the cleverly disguised villian tempts the good guy with a seemingly unrefusable offer. This is a temptation that is often repeated in mythology.

 

That article from Suite 101 is incredibly refreshing to read.

This is the smartest and truest thing that has been said about Attack of the Clones -

"Of course, all this would be worthless if not for the inner significance they bring with them. The real genius of Star Wars is in how it harmonizes the outer world with the inner one, as Lucas takes us to a galaxy far, far away that nevertheless manages to be closer to us than we are to ourselves. That constitutes a real mythic experience. Life is the true hero's journey, and this is played out in the film as Anakin and Amidala try to grow up, and face the age old struggle between the passion of the individual and the dictates of society.

The film is basically about procreation, and it is a supreme irony that neither the great clone armies produced on Kamino nor the droid armies being manufactured on Geonosis provide the galaxy with salvation. At a time when the Republic is being torn apart, it is ultimately the union of the young lovers on Naboo in a small, quaint wedding ceremony that bring about a new hope."

It's exactly what the film is about - Palpatine is creating EVERYTHING (Armies, situations, danger, destinies). The whole movie is about his plan finally being executed to perfection, every facet of it, the rise of the Empire and the fall of Skywalker. And yet in the same movie that Palpatine secures his rise - he also seals his defeat! He sends Anakin and Obi-Wan along with Padme, knowing full well that Anakin will go to his mother if he gets a mission on his own. Yet by doing so he creates Luke. He creates his own demise. And of all the grand epic things that go on to impact the universe in this movie, it is that simple pairing of Anakin and Padme that saves everything.

 

Excellent point, QuiGonJinn84

 

Thanks to Clone_Commander_Dude for posting relevant (and Revelatory!) quotes from the New Testament. To these powerful verses that speak for themselves (everyone scroll up and re-read them--they're hauntingly beautiful), I would add that Sidious--Satan--is the ultimate orchestrator of events; Dooku's role must be that of Antichrist.

And so it seems that evil takes the same forms (in paradoxically different shapes), throughout the ages and across the stars .... The same kind of rise to--and fall from--tyranny happened in ancient Rome, and it is happening--perhaps--right now, in Washington, D.C.

 

VadersLaMent, I love the analogy of the Death Star and the Greek Labyrinth through which Theseus found his way to Ariadne. Though in STAR WARS the dynamic is more complex, with two suitors for the "prize" of the Princess. One is a solar hero, the redeemer though he is just beginning on his path; the other is darker, less overtly heroic--a scoundrel! The struggle between these two men for the attentions of Princess Leia is ultimately broken, of course, in a fairly unique way with regard to world literature: romantic pairs rarely turn out to be related.

In AOTC, the solar/lunar correlation could be extended to Obi-Wan, as the solar hero (he dies and rises again), and Anakin as the dark hero, who ultimately, in the final confrontation, makes the right choice. In this sense, could Darth Vader be said to be more similar, in terms of his character, to Han Solo than to his own son Luke? In the Battle of Yavin, Solo returns at the last second to perform a heroic act--much like Vader at the climax of ROTJ.

Wrestle with that for awhile! I know I will be.