The Mythology of ATTACK OF THE CLONES

This is a cut and paste form enclopeida.com:
Halloween
(halewen´, häl-) , Oct. 31, the eve of All Saints' Day , observed with traditional games and customs. The word comes from medieval England's All Hallows' eve (Old Eng. hallow ?saint? ). However, many of these customs predate Christianity, going back instead to Celtic practices associated with Nov. 1the beginning of winter and the Celtic new year. Witches and other evil spirits were believed to roam the earth on this evening, playing tricks on human beings to mark the season of diminishing sunlight. Bonfires were lit, offerings were made of dainty foods and sweets, and people would disguise themselves as one of the roaming spirits, to avoid demonic persecution. Survivals of these early practices can be found in countries of Celtic influence today, such as the United States where children go from door to door in scary costumes demanding ?trick or treat.?

In the Star Wars Universe there is a tradition people dressing up and assuming other roles. Here are the ones I can think of:

Palpatine/Sidious
Dukko/Tyranus
Leia/Bousch - not sure of the spelling
Lando/Gaurd in Jabba's Palace
Han & Luke/Stormtroopers
Padme/Amidala
Ani & Amidala/ when traveling to Naboo

BTW: I love the recent post about the "Mahabharata"!!!

 

Padawan915

Good call, my young padawan. I think that you are on the right track. If I may offer, though, some further thoughts.

David would be a closer counterpart to Anakin, in some respects. Most strikingly, each engaged in an illicit relationship with a woman who he later married and a child of that union succeeds in faith where the father failed. I am speaking of the David and Bathsheba, union that eventually produced Solomon, the son who succeeded David to the throne. 2 Samuel 11 and 12

2 Samuel 12 Appears to have been on the mind of GL. Consider:
25 And [David] sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet; and he called [Solomon?s] name JEDIdiah, because of the LORD.

Solomon (Heb. "peaceful"), also called Jedidiah, i. e., "beloved of Yahweh"

Sources:

Bible Gateway (a search engine by keyword or chapter and verse for various editions of the Bible and in multiple languages)
1908 Catholic Encyclopedia

 

I tend to see Anakin as Adam. Created by the Force (=God in our universe). Has great potential but all the human frailties. He is tempted by Padme (=Eve) in the meadow (Eden-like Naboo), gives in to the darkside and goes against Jedi teachings in the Tusken slaughter (=disobeys God) and falls from grace. And finally, he, representing all mankind, is redeemed by his son (=Christ, the son of God).

Great stuff. Up.

 

Fantastic stuff guys... Nothing to add but my kudos...

 

Hey all!

So there's been some talk about Christ figures in this thread. Here's my take on it:

Han Solo is the Christ figure.

Pretty obvious, huh? I mean, in ESB he was betrayed by Lando (Judas) to have Chebacca (Peter) go all crazy defending him and he says "relax" and then he "raises from the dead" in ROTJ.

Okay, it's not a perfect paralel since Lando was redeemed and Han didn't bring spiritual salvation but a material one (saving the rebel alliance), but still...

(Oh, and I also see Han as a Saul/Paul figure in that after his conversion he was "blind" for a while)

Anyway, my question for ya'll is "What's the signficance of Boba/Jango Fett?"

I heard from a friend of a friend that in the EU Boba was revealed to be a principled bounty hunter, he just enforces the law, it's all black and white. (Which made sense that he'd be the only one who could catch Han) BUt ATOC clearly demonstrates that Boba's a vengeance monger (You dirty rat, you killed my father.)

Unless in Ep3 Han turns out to be Mace's son or clone, I fail to see where George is going with this.

Any ideas on the myth of Boba and Han relationship? There was an interesting Dex's diner symbolism that didn't sound entirely coming out of yer a$$ Just wondering if those in web land can offer some insights into this.

Cheers

 

I guess the thread is getting big. I did a post on the significance of the hunter in mytholgy a few pages ago.

 

"I guess the thread is getting big. I did a post on the significance of the hunter in mytholgy a few pages ago."

Hey ya VadersLaMent,

Yeah, the thread is getting big, but not big enough

Anyway, I've actually read all the previous posts before posting, but I went back and reviewed your comments.

Boba as Nimrod the hunter is an OK parellel in the OT. I guess my question more specifically (which hasn't been addressed yet) is:

"How has what we learned about Boba in the PT affected the myth of Boba in the OT?"

I'm not too familiar with Nimrod (but I guess he's popular since an X-men sentinal is also named after him). Did he see his father get killed and vow to follow in his footsteps? (That actually sounds familiar myth wise, but I can't seem to place it now...)

Also, what's the signifcance of Boba being one and the same DNA wise as the clone army? For some reason I've perceived the clone army almost as being zombie/undead. (Kind of alive, but not really, with no real free will, but boy they can multiply)

Just wondering.

 

There are a number of myths dealing with father and son, I can't recall anything specific at this moment.

I can point out something in the origins of the SW myth themselves(Since SW is in fact, its own mythology as well).

In the first few story treatments Vader and Boba Fett were the same person. This Vader/Fett hunted down the Jedi. Fett was later ressurected as his own character for TESB.

Luke almost becomes his father, the Darkside hovers over him, loses his hand, dresses in black etc.

With the PT, the Vader/Fett idea surfaces again with Boba becoming what his father was.

EDIT: There is not alot of info on Nimrod in the Bible, so if you read my post you now know as much as I do.

 

Just after Anakin's nightmare, the movie imediately cuts to the explendid scene of the sunrise over the lake in Naboo, with Anakin watching it. The music played in the begining of that scene is also relaxing. I see the symbolism in this scene as maybe the last time Anakin will see light in his life, represented by that beautiful sunlight. After that he will only find darkness, loss and pain in his way. Anyone had this thought too?

 

Mythic symbols can be looked at in different cultures but I got a scene from the movie which is in the beginning of Episode II where
the viewers are blessed with what appears to be almost untold beauty with the clouds. In this scene you begin to draw parallels between this and quite a few myths, the first one to come to mind would most likely be Asgard, the realm of the Gods in Norse mythology. While it is not this particular image that stirs the mind to come to this conclusion it is the state in which Coruscant is in. A near pre-Ragnarok state if you could call it that, Ragnarok being, in the most simplified terms the end of the world. However, this is not just limited to Earth or Midgard as it was called, rather the end of Asgard itself and all the ruling powers that dwelled within. An interesting parallel that is not frequently seen in this is how they are both depicted as working societies, in Coruscants case; it is much like a democracy, which is indeed fleeting. In Asgard Odin technically rules over all matters, much like a democracy, however he does leave other gods or goddess to do the more menial of jobs that exist in Asgard, which of course makes Odin a dictator, something Coruscant becomes over time. In Norse mythology Ragnarok is brought about by Surt, lord of the fire giants from the fire region known of Muspelheim and will lay waste to Asgard and Midgard. Later in the film the movie reaches it?s climax on the hellish planet Geonosis, this is almost a direct parallel to the battle that is fought is Muspelheim as the Norse gods and their slain warriors compiled by the Valkyries try to push the giants back. Geonosis and Muspelheim have many eerie similarities in that they both are very barren and are typically depicted with fire or the color red. Finally leading to the end of the film you can see the clone troops marching into transports with a very red sky as the backdrop now in Coruscant, again a parallel to Asgard during Ragnarok. Referring back to the situation in general it may also be stated that like the gods of Asgard the Jedi really did not have any clue that they had a enemy on their own lines. In the scene where Palpatine is giving his speech to the rest of the representatives of him obtaining emergency powers the scene goes to Yoda and Mace talking about whether or not what is happening is indeed the right thing. In the case of Asgard it is Loki who brings about a terrible downfall to many a god in order to assume power within Asgard through trickery and deceit. In addition to this he also aids the fire giants just as Palpatine plays a dual role as Darth Sidious. Whether it is the scene that seems inspired as a prelude to the coming destruction at the beginning or in the end where it seems like they are descending into the bowels of Muspelheim the parallels between Episode II and Norse mythology are strong and seem to play a strong role in its forging and symbolism together.

 

JediHPDrummer, great post about AOTC's reflections of Norse Mythology. A few pages ago, VadersLament, Falls_the_Shadow, and I were engaged in a discussion about the fiery images of Hell/Muspelheim/Geonosis, and Palpatine's similarities to Surtur, the Fire Giant who rings in Ragnarok with his flaming sword. Interesting to read your equation of Loki with Palpatine. Thanks for that, and May the Force be with you.

 

I think a primary myth I see retold in the story of Anakin's fall throughout Episodes I and II is his reluctance to let go of the past and move one.

This reminds of not only of Buddhism, but of the Greek tale of Orpheus. Orpheus' wife Eurythes (spelling) was killed right after they were married, but Orpheus went down to Hades to bring her up. While this was very uncommon, he was allowed to, and warned not "to look back."

But his desire to see his wife overcame him, and on the steps leading back up to Earth he looked back and saw her, this destroyed her and brought her back to Hades permenantly.

In TPM, when Shmi is saying goodbye to Anakin for the final time, she tells him "don't look back, don't look back". This shows the allusion to the myth. Anakin's inability to seperate (Yoda recognized in in Anakin's fear of losing his mother in TPM that turned into rage in AOTC) will lead him to the evil eventually.

This is not limited to his mother. There is a Buddhist notion that life is change and flux (I just discussed this on an AOTC thread actually) and that if you try to hold on to reality and not accept its natural change you'll never be happy.

This is what Anakin does. He is too afriad of letting go, and this fear leads him to anger, hate, and later to evil. He ends up going to the dark side not out of pure malice and greed (like Palpatine) but because of his want to protect people he loves and stop bad things from happening ("I will even stop people from dying!") he ends up playing God, which is never good (Absolute power corrupts absolutely!)

So, by looking back he is not letting go of his past and is attempting to do the impossible adn freeze frame reality to his purposes. This destroys everything, as Orpheus did when he looked back.

Any thoughts?

 

Seigiryu

Great allusion there. I was thinking the same thing a while back. I think I may have even posted it in a different thread. Indeed Anakin did look back, and quite often, when he started having dreams about his mother again. It was something he didn't feel he could control, and eventually his worst nightmares came true. He did end up losing her. But he always could have chose how he responded to that tragedy. Every one has that choice in life. He couldn't let go, and took his pain and loss out on those responsible for his suffering. I think Yoda's words are most needed here, "Once you start down the dark path, forever it will dominate your destiny."

 

JediHPDrummer, thank you for sharing your greater knowledge of Norse myth.

I cannot think of any new external mythic allusions, but this site might inspire:
HyperEpos: Epic on the Internet focusing on epic poetry.

Darth_Angelus, you have nailed the significance of that image. It is the last calm morning. It is a cloudy morning, like is clouded future, yet he is still rising like the sun.

Notice that it is the same balcony where they wed, as if they are both trying to turn back the clock, changing their minds about traveling to Tatooine.

Did you ever notice that Anakin's pose, arms behind his back, standing astride in front of the lake vista, is exactly the same pose Vader has in front of the window of the Executor in the Empire Strikes Back (or it might be from ROTJ)? I wonder now the thoughts inside his head in that ESB scene, now contemplating the search for his son as he once searched for his mother. Looking out into the utter darkness of space, he begins his return to the light as he once started his turn to the dark in the brightness of dawn.

 

The Lunar symbolism has further support. Thanks to Knight-Ander for pointing this out in his fanfic thread, Season of the Moon - A New Hope missing scene vignette starring Ben and Luke

[The Tuskens engaged in] fanatical bloodrite rituals during the season of the moon's return.

The Tusken Raider rituals I researched from issue #62 of the North American edition of Star Wars Insider. Like everyone else, I had wondered 2 things about what happened at the Tusken camp. 1. Why did they torture Shimi for so long, and 2. Why was there a third moon when all previous resources had said Tatooine had only two moons.

This is the entry for Chenini in The Completely Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia:

...the smallest, and outermost, of Tatooine's three moons. It had a highly elliptical orbit, with its apogee occurring more than four million miles from the the planet. This meant that Chenini was very rarely in view, and was often overlooked by early scouts and explorers. The orbit was regular enough, though, that the indigenous Jawas and Sandpeople monitored its progress to ensure the corrent timing of many rituals and gatherings.

 

The moonlit view of Anakin overlooking the Tusken camp is a shadow and mirror image of Luke, in full sunlight, with Ben overlooking Mos Eisley in Star Wars: A New Hope.

 

bad radio posted this quotation from Joseph Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces chapter "The Road of Trials" on this TPM thread .

Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is the favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals.

Zam as a changeling embodies the ambigous forms Anakin and Obi must confront.

Zam's silk face mask was orginally an element of Vader's headgear. Consider this passage from the Official Site:

George Lucas told Star Wars concept artist Ralph McQuarrie that he wanted Darth Vader to look like "a dark lord riding in the wind" with black flowing robes, a large helmet like that of the Japanese samurai, and a silk mask covering his face. McQuarrie came up with a breath mask, since the dark lord was, after all, living in space, and Lucas accepted this modification.

 

I've been reading a book I picked up called A Joseph Campbell Companion: Reflections on the Art of Living. It's a nice little collection of ideas from many of his books and lectures. There are some passages I feel are relevant to AOTC and I'll post them when I can.

Here's one:

"In courtly love,
the man goes crazy, not the woman.
When the man's been moved like this,
he is capable of incredible feats,
but he's on a narrow path.

When you follow your passion,
society's help is gone.
You must be very careful.
You're completely on your own."

-Otis

 

Lucas stated in the commentary on the AOTC dvd that Anakin is very much like Qui-Gon.
Obi-Wan is the Jedi who goes by the book. Both Qui-Gon and Anakin do as they see fit. I feel that Qui-Gon would have joined Dooku if he had lived. In Episode III Anakin will indeed join the Sith with horrible results for everyone involved.

Qui acted in a "here and now" attitude that may very well have costed him his life and the lives of the Jedi as well. He also believed that everything he was doing was the "Will of the Force" no matter how unethical his behavior. Could GL be making a comparison between Qui and the wild eyed fanatics of the middle ages who committed hateful acts because they thought they were doing the "Will of God"? I see all evidence pointing to that conclusion.

Once again, Lucas has thrown us a brilliant curve and many of you "Qui-Gon lovers" have totally missed the point. You're not supposed to love and adore Qui, you're supposed to take his error as an understanding as how good intentions often lead to bad results. That's the structure of the prequels: People doing things they think are the right things to do yet are actually playing into the hands of Palpy.

Originally posted by TrueJedi here:
Reason why Lucas made Qui the way he did

 

Wow.
Great reading and deep thoughts here.

 

Here's another one from "A Joseph Campbell Companion: Reflctions On The Art of Living":

"In the courtly love tradition, the woman had to test the man by holding him off until she was sure that it was not lust that was approaching her, but love, the gentle heart."

-Otis

 

Here is something I wrote way back in March:

The following passage from the Bible made me think of Palpatine/Sidious and Count Dooku.

Daniel 11:21-28

21 "He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty. He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue.

22 Then an overwhelming army will be swept away before him; both it and a prince of the covenant will be destroyed.

23 After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power.

24 When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses--but only for a time.

25 With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of the South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him.

26 Those who eat from the king's provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle.

27 The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed time."


The verse below makes me think of the repeated themes in Star Wars.

Isaiah 6:10

10 "Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."

The abc/cba (heart,ears,eyes/eyes,ears,hearts) inversion is a called a ?chiastic? arrangement.
In a way Star Wars has an inverted arrangement similar to this.

TPM--ROTJ
AOTC--ESB
Episode 3--ANH

 

Otis_Frampton, Samurai-Jack, and DamonD, thanks for not letting this thread die.

?turn and be healed? Interesting observation, Samurai-Jack, because SW is all about turning to the Dark Side or Returning.

I wonder if there is something in the Gospel of Luke, not found elsewhere in the New Testament, that would be appropriate to the Classic Trilogy which is the good news according to a different Luke.

Otis_Frampton, those Campbell quotations on courtly love make me think you might be interested in this because there are several posters who have discussed those items.

Do any of you have a mythological reference for the return of Anakin with Shmi and the burial?

I have another one for the Tusken camp scene: Cerberus.

There are two dog-like creatures that fight over a bone in the flickering firelight of the Tusken camp as Anakin approaches. Clearly, they set the mood for the evidence of savagery from the Tuskens and Anakin that the audience is about to witness. In addition, following the Hell imagery of Anakin leaping down into Hell, into his fall, these dog-like creatures recall Cerberus, the guard dog of Hades which was also featured in Hell as described in Dante?s Inferno.

 

Here are some more excerpts from "A Joseph Campbell Companion - Reflctions On The Art of Living" which would most likely apply to Anakin in Episode II:

"In Buddhism, the central thought is compassion without attachment."

"Hell is the concretization of your life experiences, a place where you're stuck, the wasteland. In hell, you are so bound to yourself that grace cannot enter.

The problem with hell is that the fire doesn't consume you. The fires of transformation do.

Find a place where there's joy, and the joy will burn out the pain."

"As long as you move from a place of fear and desire, you are self-excluded from immortality."

"Desire for mortal gains and fear of loss hold you back from giving yourself to life."

-Otis

 

Miyamoto Musashi

A quick primer on Miyamoto Musashi ? a revered figure in Japan, Musashi is often referred to as a ?sword saint,? given both his proficiency with swords as well as his development of the Niten Ichi style of sword fighting, which uses both long and short swords at once.

In his later years, he would write two books, still used today: The 35 Articles on the Art of Swordsmanship, and the primer on tactics and strategy, Book of Five Rings.

A wild child by all accounts, the young Musashi (or Shinmen Takezo, as he was called in his early life ? ?Takezo? uses the same Japanese characters as ?Musashi,? it?s just a different reading) killed his first man with a sword when he was 13, and was inspired by the victory to practice and become the best swordsman he could be.

However, the feudal Japanese system of government, had been, and continued to break down around him. Like other young men of his time, he found himself possessing the skills of a warrior, but with no master to serve.

Seeking adventure regardless, Musashi and his friend Matahachi took to the road seeking adventure. The friction between the two large factions within Japan grew to a head, and the two young men joined with the Toyotomi clan against the Tokugawa clan (which would later rule Japan for over 250 years) in the Battle of Sekigahara. They picked the wrong side, and barely survived the battle.

I posted this in the following thread: Is Akira Kurosawa the key? Ep 3 Which I believe is in the Episode III spoilers allowed forum.

---

In Norse mythology Odin loses an eye to gain knowledge.
In ESB luke loses his hand then gains knowledge.
This knowledge being the fact that his father was not killed and is actually Darth Vader.
For what it's worth in ROTJ C3P0 loses his eye for a second.

[hr]
[b]VadersLaMent[/b] when you were speaking about freezing you must not forget that Luke was frozen to the ceiling of the Wampas cave.

Satan is called a [b]DRAGON[/B] in the Bible.

I agree that the three moons above tatooine are for Shmi, Padme and Leia.

[hr]
I posted the following about a month ago:

[blockquote]Dostoyevsky wrote:
[i]"The basic idea of the art of the nineteenth century is the rehabilitation of the oppressed social pariah, and perhaps toward the end of the century this idea will be embodied in some great work as expressive of our age as the Divine Comedy was of the Middle Ages."[/i]

Response by[b] Moriarte[/b]:
GL is the man of our time that has re-introduced common themes in myths and legends, things from our "collective unconscious", an experiance that will be a part of many generations to come. [/blockquote]