The Nature of the Negative Criticism

The Nature of the Negative Criticism

This is my first time posting a thread. I thought about just putting this in another thread, but I think some of the points I want to present are new and interesting (I hope). If any of this seems silly or redundant (I warn you, some of it is), I apologize.

I?ve seen a lot of threads about the criticism of Attack of the Clones. Threads attacking the film. Threads attacking the critics. Threads attacking the gushers. Threads attacking the bashers. I?ve seen a few threads posted by those who love the film explaining how they?re angry with the bashers and their negative opinions. They present the idea that those who hated it are close-minded and went into the theatre with a bad attitude. Then those with negative opinions post angry replies claiming that those who love it are trying to deny other people?s rights to their opinions.
I for one adore Attack of the Clones. The more I think about it, the more I feel it is the best of all the Star Wars films (I also like TPM, but it is my least favorite SW film). But, I also accept that some people may not like it, and may have valid criticisms. Everyone does have a right to their opinion.
But here?s the problem, in my opinion. Those who love the film aren?t mad that other people don?t love it. They?re mad about the nature of the majority of the negative criticism.
First, let?s talk about the professional critics. We all know that critics have never liked Star Wars, for many reasons. What is so maddening is how venomous and hateful these reviews are, how subjective. They don?t just analyze the film, they rip it to pieces and react to its existence as a personal affront. There will always be those who love a film and those who hate it, but no films polarize the viewers like Star Wars. It?s one thing to love a film and read negative reviews. It?s another thing to positively adore a film and read reviews from so many critics who found it to be abhorrent and absolutely terrible with almost no redeeming values.
But forget the critics, they?re stuck up, they get paid to hate mainstream material. It?s a way that they can prove that they are not owned by ?The Man.?
The more important issue is the fan reviews. The reviews that are written in these forums and on Ain?t It Cool News and countless other internet areas. The majority seems to love AOTC from what I have seen, but those of us who do love it always react very badly to negative remarks. Not just any negative remarks, for lack of a better word, ?Basher? remarks.
What separates Basher remarks from reasonable criticism? It?s not a matter of backing up their arguments with specific evidence, most of these Basher posts are full of evidence. What I think is so maddening is a mixture of many things, primarily nitpicking, hypocrisy, and baseless jabs. Not to mention the viewing of the OT with Nostalgispecs.
No movie is perfect. There will always be flaws. A movie is very difficult to make (I speak from experience). And it?s even more difficult if the filmmakers are simultaneously pushing movie technologies to all new levels. Most, if not all, of us accept this. We go into a film knowing it won?t be perfect because it wasn?t made by gods. What makes a movie good is when the small flaws are properly outweighed by greatness. Like the original trilogy, we know it?s flawed, but there?s so much great stuff, we don?t care.
It seems that many forget this when they walk into a Star Wars movie. It?s not that they want to hate it, they don?t, but they are keeping explicit mental notes on what they don?t like and what they would have done differently. It?s fine to notice some of these things, but to let them ruin the movie for you is silly, especially since most of these people would never put any other film under the microscope the way they do Star Wars.
Now I know what?s coming ?It?s Star Wars!!! It shouldn?t have so many flaws!!! Lucas has had twenty years to prep these movies!!!? Well, I?m sorry, but like many others have said on these boards, your

 

you are speaking more truth than most of the people in here. i agree with you totally.

 

<applause>

 

ok, maybe the critics are overly harsh. but then, as a critic your job is to not be a total fanboy and provide objective criticism. I'm a huge star wars fan. that obviously clouds my judgement because I'm going to enjoy whatever crap Lucas puts out. truth is, the critics are usually right, to a certain degree. just read a criticm after you;'ve gotten over the joy of the movie. the final scene is too much like gladiator. corsucant is a lot like 5th element. those are true. the acting is, in lucas tradition, very wooden, except for ewan mcgregor. theres more that I could bring up but I'm too sleepy. g'night

 

Good post.

I liked Jim Carrey in Batman (3) Forever.

 

I think it`s time to start the "DarthCorky for president" - thread.

 

its nice to see someone with an '02 by there name with something to say




( not dissing just sayin)

 

See, I don't agree with any of those criticisms Ezekiel. And my love of the film isn't going to wear off like a temporary illness. Is the arena scene like Gladiator? NO! It's like a gladiatorial battle in Rome. Just like the Pod Race resembles a chariot race. Or lightsaber duels resemble traditional sword duels. Star Wars is always drawing on historical influences. Just how was the arena like Gladiator besides the fact that it was an arena with sand? There was no gladiator battling, it was an execution with alien monsters. And as far as the Fifth Element, huge space age metropolis settings are not controlled by the Fifth Element. They are present in all kinds of sci-fi. Plus AOTC didn't have crappy reggae music during the chase (although I like the Fifth Element). And I think the only slightly wooden acting came from Natalie, but I still liked her. Everyone else was great in my opnion.

 

I dunno why I could't edit my previous post but waht ever



I quote
"we are we and he is he."


BRILLIANT!!!

 

Totally agree with Corky. Criticism is fine but people will talk about this movie as if they have a real hatred of it, like it murdered someone in their family.

Some of the things I've read shouldn't be said about a person, yet alone a MOVIE (even an amazing one.)

 

well said

 

DarthCorky is the Ghandi of TF.N!

Great post man!

 

Very, very good stuff.

In response to Ezekiel, one must appreciate that what is in the film often has no bearing on other films. Some say the showdown on Geonosis is 'inspired' by Gladiator. Many critics say these sorts of things but really it is so much subjective-- crap. The reason they think it inspired the current movie is because THEY saw gladiator and then THEY saw the current movie. In truth, the squence was likely written before Galdiator hit theatres. Now, if we had had some of the same themes from Gladiator, some of the situations like the thought of working together as a team, then I would say it was inspired. But working together as a team is not a theme in SW-- it is in ANH to an extent, but not in AOTC.

 

The nagative reveiws by critics and casual fans is something I've thougt about since '99 when the TPM came out.

Between '77-'83, SW was considered to have a strong,solid fan base. VCR and laserdiscs were still fairly new and expensive so Hollywood and the press alike felt that the OT was a breath of fresh air, that it pulled people back into the theatres to see what Hollywood was all about: making spectacular works of the imagination.

After '83 and ROTJ a lot of people felt that it was over and all the marketing and everything surrounding the SW franchise should just go away. Like disco and the pet rock. But it didn't. People like us grew attached to it and kept alive. We made it a part of our lives. The fanboy generation was born.

When TPM came out, we all knew that it could never live to the hype. No matter how good it would or could've been. AOTC is a fine movie in the SW family of films. It's even a good movie if you don't like SW. Critics and casual fans all have the same agenda now. To invoke the ire of a whole community of fans. It's like teasing the dog in the fence just to get him to slobber and bark.

 

Bashers often have no intent but to declare those who like the film to be mindless fools with no taste in film whatsoever.

I loved AOTC, but I have read some negative criticism of the film on this board which I felt was truly well-thought out.

To those people, I can only say that I'm sorry that they did not have the same experience I did when watching the film.

 

I salute you DarthCorky.

 

Maybe there should be a basher section for each forum?

One that we cant see on the "light side".

It's really sad, most of us come here to enjoy Star Wars, not to make ourselves feel bad because we like Star Wars.

That is a real problem outside of the forum as well.

It has become really depressing to be a Star Wars fan. It's almost a hassle lol.

 

Thanks for all the supportive posts everyone. I'm glad that you're enjoying the thread.

DarthCorky

 

I?ve seen several long manifestos on this board of everything that someone would change in AOTC point by point. I understand that you want to present your ideas, but it ends up looking ludicrous. If AOTC was so bad, you would not be writing these lengthy analyses. Why not write some for the Time Machine or Resident Evil? I know why, because those are truly bad films that aren?t worth the time.

Wrong. We write these analyses because we *can* think up improvements, and we do this *because* it is a Star Wars movie. Remember, there were three Star Wars movies in the late seventies/early eighties?

 

...and this is why I have returned


brilliant thread, DarthCorky

 

Darth Murder, I'm not sure if I understand your post. It seems you're saying that people write the point by point analyses just because they can, right? But what was the comment about Star Wars films in the 70s and 80s? I just woke up, so I'm out of it, but I would appreciate some elaboration.

DarthCorky

 

Very good thread Corky.

But most people simply will not agree that mindless loving is any better than mindless hating.

The problem is, bashers are far too self-conscious about all this. The less self-conscious you are, whether in watching art or creating it, the more clearly grace emerges. But there is none to be found if you're sitting there taking mental notes about how everything could have been different. Everything in the OT could have been different too.

That was a very well thought out post though.

 

Nice post.

But I have not noticed excessive bashing of AOTC by people on this forum.

I've noticed the general sentiment by most is that AOTC is a good---if not a great---movie. And it is a worthy successor to the star wars series. In my opinion, that's pretty darn good.

I think people here on this board are too focused on the negative. They see a few people criticizing AOTC amongst a sea of AOTC gushing, and instantly latch onto those negative posts and complain that being a star wars fan is difficult.

The thing is, with the expansion of the star wars fanbase, and the inevitable gushing that star wars engender in its fans, there's ALWAYS going to be people who will try to 'bash' or 'criticize' it, sometimes with valid reasons, other times without. This has nothing to do with the quality of the movie, but more of a reaction against the 20 years of popularity star wars has enjoyed.

LOTR, Matrix, Spiderman are relatively new movies. When they start coming out with multiple sequels, they too, will be bashed whether they are good or not.

As for AOTC, I've known people who loved it, people who thought it was decent, and at least one person who puts it above all other star wars movie (and all other summer movies)!

In the end, time will tell if these movies honestly deserved the bashing they receive. My gut feeling is that the PT will be well loved by people as much as the OT.

But that there will be a division between the fans that grew up with the OT and the fans that grew up with the PT. The OT fans will will forever think of the OT as the best of star wars, irreplaceable. The PT fans will consider the PT to be superior.

But it doesn't really matter in the end. Star Wars is here to stay, and the power of the force is with us.

 

Corky, you're basically saying the same thing the hard core TPM Gushers said for years: you're making you're expectations to high, you're forgettignthis is just Star Wars, you're nitpicking blah, blah.

I don't know why people feel a need to tell people why they had an issue with the films. The fans on this site have been heaping praise on the film, this is not even close to the reaction to TPM (and for the record, I read, but have never posted on the TPM forum). So at that point, your whole premise is incorrect. I think the overhwleming majority of fans on here loved the movie and have placed it at 1 or 2 on their SW saga list.

But people have had issues with the film and some people seriously dislike it. They have a right to express their opinions as they feel, as long as they respect others and the arbitrary rules of this forum. You of course can respond as much as you like, but telling people why they think what they do is pointless. The criticism of AOTC I have seem like Binary's "Making the Love Scene More Believable" is full of well-thought out, non-troll/flaming critique and has led to some great discussion. Stop pretending people don't have real reasons for thinking what they think. I have posted on several occassion about the major plot hole in this film is that the Jedi should have figured out the mystery of the movie before it even ended and that the Clone War should not have happened. Many people who have loved the film have given great responses to my points and we have had fun debates (see AOTC is a Phantom movie). The comments you make attempt to simplify and insult people. We are all fans until we say we're not. Even if you hate the EU, you're a fan. I'll give anyone who spends hours on this site that presumption. Who are you to determine who is a fan and who isn't? It's silly.

And yes, baseless hate is not right. But that's not what you get on this site. Most people who are critiquing do so out of their deep love for the films and franchise. And I am glad that you love it too. I think threads saying "AOTC was the best ever!!!" are great. I want people to love Star Wars. But your blanket, wholesale generalized statements about anyone who raises any issue with the film, are totally incorrect and not helping anything.

 

There's a few reasons for the extreme reactions to new SW films, IMO:

- The films take an AWFULLY long time to produce, so it can't be helped that expectations are so high -- heck some wish Episode III was released this weekend, I'm sure! People are more impatient these days, IMO.

- SW films have never been known for Hamlet-ish dialogue; heck, there's plenty of of over-acting in both ANH and ESB.

- From what I understand, although I don't remember clearly at the time (I was too young), ROTJ was a disappointment to many of the "rabid" fans at the time.