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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The Nature of the Negative Criticism

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by DarthCorky, May 24, 2002.

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  1. JerrytheJedi

    JerrytheJedi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
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  2. Darth_Joe

    Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 5, 2002
    Ohhhhhhhhh....I finally get it. JerrytheJedi thinks he's Jerry Seinfeld! Would've been a lot cooler if his attempts at jokes would've been as funny as Seinfeld's.
    Still don't understand what his posts have to do with the topic though.
     
  3. Telemachos

    Telemachos Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    What about us poor souls who don't fall into A, B, or C?

    Ack! I feel the need to be categorized!
     
  4. Darth_Joe

    Darth_Joe Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 5, 2002
    YOU ARE A "D" TELEMACHOS...OF THE NON-CATEGORIZED GROUP!!! (read this with a booming voice) ;)

    There...you have been categorized. :)
     
  5. LightBird51

    LightBird51 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I know I'm a "newb", but I've been facinated by what I've been reading here, so I just have to give my two cents, if that's all right. For one thing, I don't think it's the fact that most of us "expect" so much from the films, it's that we "want" so much. Whatever the best feeling we have concerning SW at any given time, well, we want to feel that through the entire movie, and if we don't then sometimes there's a little letdown. But, you know, I saw the original release of SW in '77 when I was in my 20's and when I sat down and watched it then I felt exactly what GL wanted me to feel.I felt like I was being taken to a galaxy far away. So what if it isn't filled with the best actors and dialog? While I'm in that other galaxy I am GONE from here and having a blast.That's all that mattered. It still holds true to this day. I sat down to watch AOTC with my 23 yr old daughter and there I went to that galaxy! Just like GL intends. No more, no less. That's something the critics just..don't...get. Twenty four years from now I highly doubt if too many people will be fondly looking back in the same way on a movie about a spider. But I'll still remember the weekend I saw AOTC. The critics just don't get it.
     
  6. DARTHROOKINUSUSS

    DARTHROOKINUSUSS Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    The critics don't get it is exactly right. I am not looking for "Godfather" dialogue when I enter the theatre for a Star Wars film, I am looking to be taken to a place I have and will never see, except on the big screen. I want to see silly looking aliens plotting the demise of other silly looking aliens. That is what the OT had and that is what the PT has as well. And as far as the criticism's are concerned, my main problem is not whether someone else did or did not like the movie. It makes no difference to me that someone else hated AOTC, because I loved it. I am not going to change my opinion just because you didn't like it. No, what bothers me is this seeming attack against the movie, this seeming war that has begun by most professional, and many regular movie critics/goers. Fine, you didn't like the movie, but how many editorials and articles and posts do we have to read by people claiming that to like Sta Wars AOTC is to be in congress with the devil? Can you remember a movie where people didn't just dislike it, but actualy wrote articles claiming everything from it being a racist movie to it causing unforseen harm to the national economy. People haven't just disliked this movie, it seems, but have almost waged war against it. I LOVE Star Wars, always have, but I find it funny that most staunch SW fans, who are always accused, and sometimes rightfully so, of being too focused and in love with the movie, that it is the ardent fans that now must remind the rest of the world that these are, in fact, ONLY MOVIES!!!!!!! GL wasn't out to offend anyone or ruin anyones life. GL hasn't killed anyone or destroyed faith with this movie, he simply made the best movie he thought he could make. I for one, loved it. You, on the other hand, may not love it, and that is fine. You may love Moulin Rouge, which I thouroughly hated, but wwhy, oh why, would anyone want to spend their days waging war against this movie. If you didn't like the movie, forget you ever saw it. Get ready for the other huge movies of the summer and put this one out of your minds. Why continue to write about something you hate? I am not on the "Teaching Mrs. Tingle" website, if there is one, trashing that movie, even though I despised it and wanted my money back, and a few extra for the trauma. I blocked it out, never thought about it again, and moved on. I think what all of this boils down to is one simple thing; If you did not like this film, then please oh please just leave the rest of us who did in peace. Stop writing articles about it, editorials about it, or postings your hateful complaints about it. You are not going to change anyones mind and, if you truly do hate thefilm, at the end of the day all you will accomplish is having spent hours of your own day on a movie you hated. Does that make any sense to anyone?
     
  7. Telemachos

    Telemachos Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Cripes, dude, I've never seen folks so extreme. Lighten up, guys. LOL!

    Oh wait, I'm not supposed to know what I'm talking about. :D
     
  8. CircleCompletion

    CircleCompletion Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Darth Rook ... er, something like that ...

    I tend to agree with you -- it's a little surprising that so much energy bashing the film. There are always plenty of movies to choose from; the SW films are, in the end, just movies. I am not a SW apologist by any means, but I find it very puzzling why some folks are intent on spending so much energy bashing the film. Like others have said -- if GL is able to get people who _hate_ his movies to watch them multiple times, he must be a true genius. LOL. :>
     
  9. JediDa-cam18

    JediDa-cam18 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    I have no problem with negative criticism and I respect someones honest opinion even if I disagree with it. Now my problem with critics is not the abundance of negativity from them, its to be expected it happened with the OT when they came out and is happening again, my problem is their relentless assualt against the PT and Lucas, trying to drill it into people's head that the movies are utter crap which is so not true, that Lucas cant cut it anymore which again is not true. Not only that but the media has created this battle where LotR is better than the PT, Harry Potter is better than the PT, Spiderman is better than the PT, they want AotC to fail, they want to prove that Lucas cant cut it any more, I mean whats the point of all that.

    It's like a personal vendetta against a very hyped up saga that they dont understand what the big deal is and it pisses critics off that so many people could cherish these movie the way they do. With prerelease of AotC every time I read a article or critic response they refered to the TPM as a failure, the movie was a smash at the BO and people enjoyed it as well, mixed fan reaction IMO was more media created then anything, just because they browse SW fan sites on the web seeing people say TPM sucks does not make it mixed fan reaction and definately does not make TPM a failure.

    So again critics dont like AotC, does that make it a failure, hell no. Im sure though will see the same crap sprout up when EpIII comes around.
     
  10. DarthCorky

    DarthCorky Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Funny stuff JerrytheJedi. By the way, my user name is referring to Corky St. Clair from Waiting For Guffman, not Corky Romano.

    DarthCorky
     
  11. dmodog

    dmodog Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 1999
    >>>Hello, long time reader first time poster. This time I couldn't just sit back and watch idiocy reign supreme. I see a lot of people saying, "Oh, Darth Corky, you're a godsent," or "Darth Corky, you're the underground railroad for AOTC fans," or "Darth Corky, I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life." Well let me say, I've seen AOTC six times, and every time it just gets worse. Each time I go in hoping it will recapture the magic of The Phantom Menace, but what am I supposed to do when they can Jar-Jar into a veritable CAMEO!!! Look, I've never seen the OT (scratch that, I did see the first ten minutes of Return of the Jedi, that slug was hilarious!), but I resent the fact that I can't call myself a Star Wars fan. So don't tell me what I can and cannot call myself, DARTH PORKY!!!
    >>>>>

    Darthspidey, i really hope this is a joke, because it made me laugh deep in my belly.

    i'm assuming you are joking, but if you aren't, then all i have to say is that you are completely ridiculous.
     
  12. DARTHSPIDEY

    DARTHSPIDEY Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 24, 2002
    Well, I just got back from AOTC viewing number 7, and it is worse than ever. George what are you thinking just letting the movie sit in theatres like this? Do a favor to humanity and re-edit. It's been done before. And seriously, you're not fooling anybody by casting the same actor as Palpatine and Darth Sidious. Where's the money going? As for you Darth Cocky, or shall I say God's gift to geeks, why don't you get off of your high horse? What do you know about the nature of negative criticism. What the hell does nature have anything to do with criticism? Why don't you just call it the forrest of negative criticism. Jerry the Jedi is the only one around here with his head in the right place, meaning not up Lucas's ass. Plus, who the hell are you to bash Resident Evil and The Time Machine, two very good films IMHO. But how could they compare to the your gloriously overhyped Star Wars Saga? It pisses me off that sci-fi crap gets this ridiculously big fanbase, while quality films like Patch Adams and Kate & Leopold get cast aside. You think you're a filmmaker? I dare you to contribute something to the film compendium that is as bold as Battlefield Earth. And I don't say that simply because I'm a scientologist. So until you learn to stop criticizing criticism, there will be angry people like me to soil your cheetos.

    GO SPIDEY!
     
  13. JediMaster22

    JediMaster22 Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 1999
    Ok. I just saw Insomnia last nite, because Critics all gave it a rave review, so I went to check it out. And I went in with high Expectations, because Critics were saying "Great Acting. Thrilling Story".

    I was MOST DIsappointed!!!!!

    The Acting was not bad, as Critics said, however....

    The Plot to 'Insomnia' is SO BASIC, and almost BORING.

    So, I realize something... Critics Only cares about Acting. They would give ANY movie GOOD reviews if it had an basic plot, that has character vs. character (Pacino vs. Williams) conflict.

    The critics doesn't care if the Plot is so Basic, not intriquing/thought-provactive. They don't care if Action RULED SO MUCH like AOTC does, and they DON'T care if Special Effects is BEST EVER... as long as it has Good acting.

    Insomnia is an example of a movie, that doesn't have that Compelling plot, but still gets Great reviews!
     
  14. ferelwookie

    ferelwookie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2001
    LOL@DarthSpidey!
    Freakin' hilarious!
     
  15. JediMaster22

    JediMaster22 Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 1999
    Although, I've to admit (on a fair criticism, NOT a Bash) George Lucas was POOR in his ways of directing Actors.

    I Truly worried about this before the movie came out. I feel everything about Ep2 is Great, except the ways GL direct actors. And look what happened, it was realized as the Truth.

    I don't think George Lucas himself realizes just how LITTLE effort he has to put in the acting/characters development directing, and EP2 would be MUCH MUCH better than it is now.

    Already, most critics are agreeing it's better than TPM, and the last half kicked so much ass. It's only the part where Love story develops didn't work great.

    So, whenever ANYONE says GL is NOT a great Actor's director, that's a Valid criticism!!!

    I hope GL takes that Criticism, and directs better in Episode 3. Most people said his directing abilities/and script-writing are awful aren't wrong. Like me, they liked the movie Overall, but just doesn't seem right when the way the love story was directed seem like it's from the worst movie you'll see, while the rest is superb. Natalie & Hayden, ONCE AGAIN, AREN'T THE PROBLEMS!!! I bet you they could do better under a different directors who would direct actors way better than GL.

    GL should let Steven Speilberg direct Episode 3, and Lawrence Kasdan or someone else who is a great writer to co-write the script, either that or get better in Directing actors.

    I could see where some critics are Terribally confused about the way the characters suppose to act, also. Still, Very LITTLE Improvements by his caring about Acting would be SO MUCH BETTER! He just doesn't care about Acting, and that's what's wrong.
     
  16. Darth-Murder

    Darth-Murder Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2001
    A lot of good discussion in this thread, but one thing bothers me: Why do you wonder why "Star Wars" isn't getting good reviews in the press? Is that a mystery? 'Attack of the Clones' is nowhere near being a good movie, simple as that. It is different, it is Star Wars, and it is partially very good - as a SW film - but, seriously, the film isn't good when it comes to editing, pacing, characterization, structure etc. It may work for most SW fans, yes, but that is because there's so much cool stuff attached to the film (in this case, four other films, great characters, cool starship designs etc etc).
     
  17. DarthHomer

    DarthHomer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2000
    I disagree, Darth-Murder. I just went to see AOTC a second time to try and determine if my initial opinion of it was biased by seeing it opening night with a theater full of cheering fans. This time I saw it with regular moviegoers, who were much less vocal in their appreciation. But you know what, I love the movie more than ever. Star Wars is what cinema is all about to me, so a great Star Wars film (which I believe AOTC is) is great cinema, regardless of what the critics think.
    Yes you could tear apart the acting and dialogue if you wanted (just as you could with all SW films). I can understand the criticism of Lucas, because if he were to let someone else direct and write, we would probably see an improvement in the acting and dialogue. But that doesn't matter because Lucas is the best in the three areas that matter most: visual imagination, story and action. Watching this film really is like travelling to a galaxy far, far away. I love sitting back and letting the worlds and the characters envelop me. There's nothing I'd change about the story or the characters, even if I could.
    Where the critics fail is that they're rating Star Wars using the same criteria as they do for films like Citizen Kane. That may be a wonderfully made film, but I can't sit through it because I just find it dull. AOTC was 100% fun for me, and I feel sorry for anyone who walked away from the film not feeling they got their money's worth.
    I don't mind reviews which try and analyse a movie's flaws in an objective way. The ones I hate are when a critic personally attacks Lucas, which seems to be more and more common these days. I really think Lucas should cancel all press screenings for Episode III. The media are doing nothing to help Star Wars. The films should just be for the fans, as Lucas intended.

    BTW, after seeing the digital screening of AOTC the first time, the regular projection seemed really bad - full of grain and blurry shots. So I can understand Roger Ebert's criticism in that regard. :)
     
  18. JediMaster22

    JediMaster22 Jedi Knight star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 1999
    I can understand the criticism of Lucas, because if he were to let someone else direct and write, we would probably see an improvement in the acting and dialogue. But that doesn't matter because Lucas is the best in the three areas that matter most: visual imagination, story and action.



    Tell that to so many people that didn't like AOTC, who aren't critics.

    Sure, visual imagination, story and action DOES entertain A LOT, but when you direct actors with that laziness, it's kind of a shame!

    And, once again I LOVED AOTC, but I am just FAIRLY Criticizing GL... I am NOT a blind fan.
     
  19. Yoda's_Roomate

    Yoda's_Roomate Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2000
    You people can be so intolerant. If someone wants to bash the movie, so be it. You dont have to explain what you think or feel about the movie to others just because they think you are wrong. It is one own prerogative and thats it. Some people like stuff and others dont, whatever the reason is. Deal with it. The fact that they express it here is just because this is a space to speak your mind about SW. Period.
     
  20. DarthCorky

    DarthCorky Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2002
    I wasn't trying to deny other people their opinions. I just find it interesting to analyze people's motivations and look at what reasoning went into certain criticisms.

    DarthCorky
     
  21. Nazgul_Dark

    Nazgul_Dark Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 12, 2002
    I don´t understand why someone who calls himself a "Star Wars" fan, seems to hate Star Wars.

    I really wish all bashers like most of you out there simply go to HELL.

    Nevertheless, i´d like to see someone other than George Lucas directing Star Wars. My choice would be Ridley Scott
     
  22. Telemachos

    Telemachos Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    I really wish all bashers like most of you out there simply go to HELL.

    I'm in Hell right -- it's pretty chilly here right now. The WeatherDude from Hell(tm) is forecasting a night of subzero temperatures. :p
     
  23. Sbuck143

    Sbuck143 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 21, 2002
    Nice post DarthCorky -

    There should be an addendum to your negative criticism thesis ;) and that is the influence of the internet on said bashers.

    A major role in "extremism" on-line is the almost complete anonymity you get on the internet. The ability to say reactionary things powerfully with no real life repercussions is a very tempting, easy proposition to give in to. In a SW sense it's almost like the Dark Side of the internet :)This phenomenon is in no way limited to just this forum, as most of you already know.

    Many people (myself included at times) say things on-line to someone you don't know that you would NEVER say to one of your friends or even a stranger standing right in front of you. Why is that? Because in the case of the former, it is someone whose feelings (and view of you consequently)are something you care about, and in the latter, you have no idea if that person has a gun or knife in his back pocket. In both cases, the concept of courtesy and respect is in work, as well as the human social behavior of wanting to be "liked".

    For whatever reason, the social rules get thrown out the window on the internet. Case in point, while standing in-line for Episode II yesterday, quite a few people walked by heading into the Spiderman theater (not nearly as many that were waiting to get into SW though). Several of them looked like die-hard Spidey fans, but not a single one dashed by our lines spouting anything about Spiderman kicking AoTC ass or how Ep II has the worst dialogue ever, etc etc. Why? Because it had no socially redeeming pay-off (read: might have gotten their ass kicked by a SW mob :) ) and that's what drives us in r/l.

    In short, the extremism you find anywhere on the net is due in large part to the neglible consequences of saying things that you wouldn't be able to get away with in real life. Couple that with the fact that you'll never see 99.9% of these people in your life, and you have the perfect set-up for it.

    SB

     
  24. DarthCorky

    DarthCorky Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Very good point Sbuck143.

    DarthCorky
     
  25. Sapno Krei

    Sapno Krei Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 1999
    Is there a point at which you have to give up on those who bash?

    For the last two years, I have argued with a co-worker about TPM. He loved the original trilogy, but hated TPM so much he rated it * (out of four). I admitted that the film had its problems, but I didn't believe it wasn't completely without redeeming qualities. In my worst mood, I would give the film ***.

    My friend's biggest gripe about TPM was Anakin and Padme's banter. "I'm not a slave, I'm a person!" he would mockingly quote (incorrectly, of course).

    I would counter: "But what about the political stuff, the story behind the story? What about the action and FX? And yes, the acting is bad at times, but getting past that, what about the implications of what these characters are experiencing? Is the filmmaking so inept that you cannot even get to the heart of the story?"

    Cut to earlier this year: When I heard that the initial reviews for AOTC were favorable, I started talking to my friend about STAR WARS again. I let him know that there might be hope for the series, that AOTC might actually be "good", in his eyes.

    I saw AOTC on opening day, and my reaction was so great that I wanted to get back in line immediately. This was in sharp contrast to TPM's opening, after which I decided quite dejectedly that the film was a disappointment.

    I came back to work the next day and told my TPM-hating friend that AOTC was well-worth the time and money, and that he should be able to walk into the theater with a clear conscience.

    How wrong I was there. He came back the follwing Monday and declared that AOTC was a total waste of time, and even worse than TPM! He proceeded to quote Anakin: "My soul burns for you!"

    I had hoped my friend would return and we'd be able to engage in some intelligent discourse about how much better AOTC was, and how it was the second best film of the series, but instead, he came back a bitter, angry man with nothing but hateful words to spew about the film.

    "It's STAR WARS meets TITANIC!" he complained.

    Even though I could agree with some of his complaints -- weak dialogue, too much CG, bad acting -- I could not concur that any of the flaws were enough to ruin the film. If anything, I felt they added to the movie's charm (after all, STAR WARS is really just a 2-1/2 Saturday morning cartoon; if you're expecting Lawrence of Arabia, you're going to be disappointed).

    I personally believe that he is among a small segment of people who see the OT in a much better light than it deserves, either because of nostalgia, or perhaps just because they are Luddite cranks.

    "There's too much CG!" my friend complained. "Models were so much better! Plus, the OT didn't have so many FX!"

    My response: "You sound just like the old fogeys who bashed STAR WARS and EMPIRE back in the day.

    "You know what?" I said to my friend. "I think you've officially become an old man."
     
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