Lit The New Jedi Order Series

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jedi Paddy O'Furniture, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    The NJO was my first EU experience. "Destinies Way" in fact. I was fortunate to come in during the turning of the tide. Really wonder how my EU path would have taken if the book had ended on a downer.

    I haven't read the entire thing, I read from DW until TUF, and then I read STAR BY STAR. So I really can't comment on whether or not it lasted to long. If I were to give an opinion, I'd say the peopel who feel it lasted to long were probably right. However, NJO was definitly something different, and took the EU places it hadn't gone before. It gave us great character moments, tragic loses, triumph and new ideas about the force and such.

    The New Jedi Order, for me, works best if you look at it as the end of the Star Wars story. It was a big huge adventrue that I felt said everything that needed to be said about family, the force, death, and so on in the Star Wars U. And to me I give lots of praise to James Luceno. For everyone who thought NJO was to un-Star Warsy, TUF, took this Trek idea( as some called it) and made it pure Star Wars. TUF was the most thrilling and most Star Wars books I've ever read. Sure I give props to the Thrawn Trilogy, but there was somethign about that book that made me feel that I could have watched TUF on the big screen and it would have felt like the OT. Not only was TUF a great book, but it was the perfect ending for the EU. And even if you continuie telling stories after, it was an even better passing of the torch. Not only that but being a good ending it also gave the final word on the force. After all those years of light and Dark, we learn it's not the force that is light or Dark, it's the people who use it. I thought that was a great idea.

    Obviously many don't see it that way, and I'm glad you got your reward and punishment for not being as open minded.

    Oh, and lastly NJO created the best villain since THRAWN, NOM ANOR. Vergere too. Vergere is probably the biggest reason why I don't give a rats ass about the EU. You read about a character who is obviously a Jedi no matter what, and then you get told she's a Sith and that's that. It made me angry at fans, and it made me see how silly this whole retconing thing was, and how damaging it could be.
    Last edited by DarthMane2, Feb 11, 2013
  2. DARTH_MU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    For the ultimate SW EU fiction, get I Jedi instead of NJO.
    Captain RX likes this.
  3. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    i jedi makes luke look like an idiot. no thanks
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    I, Jedi is pretty generous to him actually, the Jedi Academy novels made him an outright idiot, I, Jedi just has him be unsure about what he is doing.
  5. DARTH_MU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    You are right, NJO totally made Luke bad butt and great wise man.
    oh wait.
    Captain RX likes this.
  6. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Your joking right IJedi is terrible. Not just the usual terrible dialogue,prose and awful plot that are consistent with Stackpole but that it also had zero character development, which is ironic since it's in the 1st person and specifically about the character o_O

    Stackpole's idea of a character flaw is to have Corran be unable to do telekinesis :oops: otherwise he is brilliant at everything.
    He has him beat Luke in a Lightsaber fight,
    Have him and Mara defeat Exar Kun by virtue of some unwitty one liners, Out Force Kyp (though I am not bothered by that one).

    Then have all the women in the book fancy him.
    Is the best pilot in well anything.
    He even gives Corran an extended Lightsaber, which to me was the EU equivalent of a tiny man getting a BMW.
    DelRiego and JediMatteus like this.
  7. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    I happen to think it’s one of the best SW novels out there. ;)

    What’s wrong with Corran infiltrates Pirates that have kidnapped Mirax? o_O

    Corran goes through a whole swath of change in outlook on life and viewpoints. Mixing and matching skills, methods and ideas he learns along the way.
    Corrans most consistent character flaw is actually that he is an arrogant, self righteous jerk, which is what keeps landing him in trouble.
    When? The only duel I recall the two of them having ends in a draw, as both quit to debate the force.
    The power of the students together along with Luke and Baas beat him. Corran just used cynicism to irk Kun out when he was trying to resist his powers, though he blew up the temple after Kuns spirit was defeated.

    Can’t quite follow you with that remark.
    Not really, Iella never cared for him to begin with, Releqy is properly outright afraid of him, the Jensaarai are buy with something else and the female also the female pirates don’t really care for him either, other than Tavira and she just views him as a toy.
    He almost bites the dust when flying against his old squadron, whilst the only other people he battles in the book are pirates and militias in patched together fighters.
    Didn’t mind all that much as Corran just steals the idea from Gantoris to have a trick up his up his sleeve and uses his saber in normal mode because the extended blade is amazingly impractical.
    tjace likes this.
  8. Mirax Terrik Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 5
    I've since finished reading NJO and was going to write my thoughts about it, but Jedi Ben and DarthGonzo pretty much got it for me.

    I wish the series were shorter and had better continuity between books and authors. A lot of character potential got wasted or ignored. Characters that seem strong and promising get completely nerfed randomly throughout the series. Aside from parts of Dark Tide and Enemy Lines, the military come across as incompetant. I liked the involvement of the Empire and Pellaeon. Their actions made perfect sense. Didn't really care for the Hapes stuff with Jaina because it seemed like a rehash of CoPL.

    I really liked how dark it was and gritty it got although the middle section of books before Rebel Dream got to be incredibly depressing and hard to get through just because of all the angst and drama. It probably didn't help that I read them all one after another. I really enjoyed hating the Peace Brigade and Agent Red. I don't remember which book, but I actually liked most of the Bothans and I usually hate Bothan intrigue. Their concept of arkrai (sp?) really lend a menace to their species outside of the political arena. I wish that was addressed more thoroughly instead of Kre'fey going "meh" about the issue.

    Salvatore really did a good job in Vector Prime in setting the tone for the utterly alienness of the Vong. I really liked the Vong tech and I'm glad Mercy Kill featured some of it. I loved Vergere and her ambiguity. I don't remember her being made a Sith, unless ya'll are talking about in LOTF. Nom Anor was also brilliantly executed.

    I liked the premise of Dark Journey but felt like Jaina never actually was evil aside from some Force Lightning and being mean to people. The rest of the series really makes DJ tame in comparison. I really enjoyed Balance Point and liked its focus on the Solos. Agents of Chaos is a complete blur to me and I could have done without it. Really hated how Drunk Han got presented. Also, I guess they completely forgot about the lifedebts sworn to him?

    Overall the NJO was pretty good but wish it were plotted out better.

    On I, Jedi: It's highly entertaining as long as you don't take it seriously. I view it as a powerup for Corran. The dialogue in it isn't better or worse than the stuff in the Rogue Squadron books.
    krtmd and Jedi Ben like this.
  9. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    You know I'm embarrassed to say my lack of IT skills show, as I don't know how to cut'n quote like this. I'll just have to do it all in one :)

    I think we are gonna have to disagree here ;) , I think IJedi is terrible with the only interesting thing about it that it's in first person. Otherwise it's plagiarism. Stackpole to me is simply KJA but more popular, but with all the same faults when writing.

    The plot is supposedly that, but the first half of the novel does not actually have any relation to that plot, and is just Stackpole having Corran wonder around KJA's books to kill time to fill a word count and say "look aren't they bad". Which while true does not take away from the fact that his books are bad too!
    While the whole kidnap plot never really goes anywhere or has any effect and basically just an excuse for him to meet up with Pirates then meet the janitors Janiseeri who randomly pop up at the end too.

    He doesn't go through a whole change, he decides at the end to stay being a pilot. Not because it's him discovering that's where he is happy and feels he belongs or anything like that (he barley interacts with the other cyphers anyway) but for the absurd it's because he can help people better there guff. Now I am not sure how being a military fighter pilot helps people more than being a guardian of peace and justice, but I could have excepted it if there was some real reason rather than the absurd crap Stackpole was feeding me, to keep his character oh so saintly.

    It doesn't end in a draw, Corran is kicking Luke's arse while giving him lectures before Luke gives him a force shove and that's it. The point is that before that shove Luke is owned by Corran.

    Tavira and co are shown obviously fancying him. I wouldn't even mind if it led anywhere but is more just an ego boost, by the author as he see's himself as Corran (he even posed as Corran in those Stawars pic cards) and thinks that's how people should view him.

    He doesn't almost bite the dust, he out flies them with the implication that he is the best in the group and they are not as good without him.

    The extended saber like I said and which I stand by is a tiny man getting a giant sports car, and the whole impratical thing, I'm not sure what your basing that on.
    Last edited by fett 4, Feb 13, 2013
  10. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    No Problem :) used to it from other boards.

    We will just have to agree to disagree, though yes he has surprisingly similar plot elements to KJA (less blunt overuse of the force though), just happens to be able to make them more entertaining.

    The hint that the Janiseeri are arround is droped very early by Tavira being able to predict from nothing when the Republic tries to ambush here. Also Corran going to Jedi training flows from him believing he will learn new skills which he will need to find Mirax.




    Now that’s harsh, of course the people that fight for the New Republic do so because they feel they serve the common good with it. Otherwise there would not have been a Rebellion either, because everyone was just supposed to wait for Luke, being a Jedi, to fix everything.

    Not really, Corran managed to knock him to the ground once or twice, which Luke just counters by force smacking him, the fight clearly ends in a draw.

    Somehow doubt that Corran is really meant to be the authors alter ego, he has too many open flaws for that, unless Stackpole really doesn’t particularly like himself. Plus Tavira clearly doesn’t really care for him all that much, he is just a play thing, that will take her fancy for a little while and then be dropped like the ones before. Though there is a rather good scene were Corran mentally smacks himself because he was dropping to far into her charms and losing sight of target because of it.

    I always read the battle of Xa Fel as him just surviving because of his extended force training he got at Yavin, as it is really the only thing he can bring against his fellow Rogues.

    Afaik its mentioned in the book itself, that it it’s too long to actually wield properly in battle. You know like a big car can’t manoeuvre ;) though it might really be Corran compensating for being rather short (most fight pilots in SW are).
  11. tjace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2008
    star 4
    The NJO is amazing.

    As far as I, Jedi goes, when Corran goes up against Ooryl, his former wingman, he has trouble with him and realizes that the Gand is a way better pilot than he gave him credit for. Tycho almost kills him, even with the Force, and Corran realizes that in terms of sheer piloting skill he's like a baby compared to Wedge and Tycho.
    Jedi_Glover and Gorefiend like this.
  12. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Never read the series, all I know is other's opinions. Will be rectifying that.

    I missed the original release, I wasn't a fan of the Star Wars books yet (that's what happens when the only EU books you've got are The Mandalorian Armor, The Crystal Star and Children of the Jedi). Or Star Wars in general really, I loved the films and had loads of toys but I wasn't a fanboy until Knights of the Old Republic was released.


    Started Vector Prime a few days ago. About 8 chapter's in (Yomin Carr and Nom Anor are doing dastardly stuff, the Family is off to visit Lando). I like it so far. But I do kind of wish the Vong would show up already, but that's just because I know they're coming.



    Which are the 'best' books in the series?
    Last edited by Rawne, Feb 13, 2013
  13. Mirax Terrik Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 5
    Things go nuts towards the end of VP. Hold on to your hat.
  14. Team Padme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Rawne from what people have said Vector Prime, Star By Star, Traitor and The Unifying Force are the best.

    Also I'm starting to read SBS. Fourty pages in. Pretty good so far. The Voxeyn scene with the Rar sisters was awesome.
  15. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    the njo series had remarkable continuity considering so many different authors. to me, there are few if any flaws with the NJO series

    on I, Jedi, i did nejoy some of the book. There were some positives, but i found some things annoying about it as well, like Luke getting beat up by Corran. They made Corran look to good at everything until the end, when Luke finally kicks but.
  16. gracesonnet Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2014
    star 1
    I started reading the New Jedi Order series sometime after college but skipped around because it was hard keeping track of which book was next. So I think there's a huge swath of middle books that I missed.
    That being said, this song from the musical episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer always reminded me of Jaina Solo after Anakin's death:

    (context: Buffy's having an emotional crisis after her friends bring her back from the dead and then a demon comes to town and makes everyone sing about their innermost feelings. The video quality is not that great).
  17. Captain RX Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2014
    star 1
    The series that enraged a generation of SW EU fans. Erasing this from canon is easily the highlight of Disney's Star Wars decisions so far.
  18. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    The NJO was truly a blight on Star Wars.
  19. Kablob Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2014
    star 4
    Indeed. It annoys me because the series itself, isolated from everything else, is actually good. But the premise of it in Star Wars? What? Just...no.
  20. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Thank God it didn't do Jedi and Sith for the 20th time or whatever number time it was. It shot for the fences with how alien the Vong were. Pity the Disney verse won't do anything like this..............
  21. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    What was it that made them so enraged?
    how so?
  22. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    [IMG]
    Ordo Skirata likes this.
  23. Kablob Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2014
    star 4
    I mean it had some of good stuff contained within it, but the only way I could possibly enjoy any of it is for it to exist in some weird parallel grimdark universe that looks like Star Wars but isn't.

    Which it actually does now, so maybe I can give it a chance now that it doesn't take a dump on the movies anymore.

    Thank god the Disney verse won't do anything like this. It went way too far in the other direction. Invasion of chaotic evil aliens from outside the galaxy who are immune to the Force because reasons, who procede to murder or enslave everything that moves? No thank you.
    Last edited by Kablob, Aug 14, 2014
  24. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    [IMG]

    son i am disappoint

    The NJO isn't any more "grimdark" than TESB.
  25. Kablob Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2014
    star 4
    Remind me when ESB killed trillions in a galactic war that destroyed or changed beyond recognition several planets? Some of which were actually important?
    Last edited by Kablob, Aug 14, 2014