The New Jedi Order, trying too hard to top Lucas' saga?

Hey everyone. I've become an avid reader of the Star Wars expanded universe over the last 6 months. I've read the Jedi academy trilogy & the all the NJO novels upto Dark journey. Plus I've read many of the prequel novels.
Anyway, with what I've read of the NJO I'm going to keep reading it until its conclusion. But I've become very disallusioned by everything that has happened. With Dark Journey becoming the latest in my "worst books i've read" category I'm getting worried that in the authors attempts to make the NJO on par with the saga they are creeping to too lower depths. For one thing apart from the Jedi, there seems alot less fantasy elements in the stories and its all too science fiction for me as i've considered Star wars in the fantasy genre.
There is a too dark mood about everything the novels tell and with the Yuzzhan Vong there seems (for me anyway) too much of a Star Trek borg type influence. And the invasion just seems a little far-fetched.
Now this sounds very pessimistic i know. But I really wanted to see what Luke & co would do after ROTJ and what the NJO has produced seems too much like they are destroying Star Wars than creating an exciting adventure where new enemies can be fought and defeated.
But as my topic title suggest are the Authors trying too hard to be on a par with the original saga or in creating a new story have they effectively lost the plot?

PLease do not flame, I have enjoyed the NJO but i have alot of reservations with whats been written, just being a concerned fan.

 

I think they're just trying to live up to the movies. Personally they're no where close at all, but the closest anything has been in a long while.

 

I have been reading the "jedi apprentice" series which are really cool and fast reading.

I have two books of the NJO but was wondering the order of the books. I have "dark tide I onslaught" and "agent of chaos II jedi eclipse" What is the order for that series, book 1,2..etc?

 

Book 1 is Vector Prime. You have books 2 and 5.

 

I never got the impression that they were trying to top the movies, and since I tend to view things on an equal footing, I guess I don't see how they could.

The only thing that has been changed is the source of the conflict- external as opposed to internal. And instead of it being 'small band of rebels versus huge galactic empire' it's basically two galactic empires duking it out and are pretty evenly matched.

 

I don't think you understand what i was getting at.

EDIT: well i was talking about the NJO not the saga, or your just flaming........how lame

 

I understand it perfectly, I just think you're wrong.

 

Too many Darth Homers in her; I'm leaving.

 

Yep, I said to myself the first time I see someone else with the icon, I'm a changing it it. Change is good.

 

as far as i'm concerned, i can't see anything to indicate that njo is trying to top lucas's saga... but if they were, i don't see anything wrong with that... isn't it good to try and make as good a story as possible? and i think that's all they're doing... trying (but sometimes failing) to make a good storyline...

 

I think they're trying to hard to make the big sales...deaths and shocks at every turn make it less like the movie saga all the time.

I.E. The NJO does little-to-nothing to compete with the movies.

 

They seem to be trying to top the movies:

More character deaths
More worlds destroyed
Greater odds
The great insane plans of SW never work without something going wrong

NJO is too imbalanced, in terms of light and dark. It seems to be aping the original trilogy in the worst way:

VP: the ANH.
DT-DW: ESB, the darkness of the Vong
DW-HC5: The ROTJ, quick ending and resolution, with a happy ending duly supplied.

There look to be 4-5 books at max that will be the resolution, perhaps not even that.

NJO had the room for a more substantial and satisfying resolution, not to mention a more complex arc, with the Vong being pushed back then counter-attacking instead of the simplicity we have of: Vong victory followed by Reoublic victory as will probably happen.

Jedi Ben

 

NJO had the room for a more substantial and satisfying resolution, not to mention a more complex arc, with the Vong being pushed back then counter-attacking instead of the simplicity we have of: Vong victory followed by Reoublic victory as will probably happen.

That's the truth. At least in the movies there was some back-and-forth before the finale. Here, it's obviously an attack/counter-attack/over sort of thing.

BTW, long time no see, JB. How ya' been?

 

I've been OK JS, good to see you're fine.

Been mostly involved in debating Q's of SW, posting at CMinor's H/L thread and the NJOCC. Occasional contributions to NJO debates too.

Jedi Ben

 

VP: the ANH.
DT-DW: ESB, the darkness of the Vong
DW-HC5: The ROTJ, quick ending and resolution, with a happy ending duly supplied.

RotJ was hardly a quick ending. It was basically the turning point in the civil war. Those 20 books afterwards have to count for something right?

I don't think anyone is going to claim that the Vong threat will be gone by HC5 just as the Imperial threat wasn't gone after RotJ.

 

thanks, Iamthedarkside. got to find the first book and the ones in between 2 & 5.

 

Well its good to see some decent replies.
And for the most part i have to agree with cockroach man.
The Jedi don't seem to be like the Jedi we have seen (or will see). But actually this new order seems like the beginnings of the original Jedi Order. Yet i dont think this is the right time to do all that. What we need is these Jedi to be fighting the Vong and doing their job as protectors.
And the whole arc of the NJO is very obvious as has been mentioned. The vong will win upto a certain novel then what do ya know, the NR will come back and upto the end of this series will win the war.


EDIT: Is it me or are the Jedi portrayed a little to much as an order which allows emotions? What with all this marriage and children lark its more like th new sith order rather than the new jedi.

 

I dont think the NJO is trying to top the movies at all. After all, that is well nigh impossible in most people's eyes. Obviously GL has approved the general plotline of the NJO, and if you ask me, these books follow in the same formula as the films. One isnt trying to top the other, the NJO (and the EU)are simply an extension of GLs original vision. Like Kier, I view both the films and the EU on equal footing.

 

Personally I prefer a good book to a good film So I'm as controversial as ever in PREFERRING some - I DO STRESS SOME - of the NJO to the movies!

 

"EDIT: Is it me or are the Jedi portrayed a little to much as an order which allows emotions? What with all this marriage and children lark its more like th new sith order rather than the new jedi."


It's the New Jedi Order. Personally,Luke's Order is how I think the Jedi should be.

No children. pfeh. no marriage.pfeh

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but alot of people like to think that the Jedi of the PT era were perfect. (following some mythic gobbly gook formula they have to be or something like that)

Is that there anyone hat thinks that GL is not portraying them as perfect and that he's doing that intentionally?

They seem to be a corrupt arrogant order. From taking the destiny of sentient beings into their own hands(taking children,I don't care if the parents consent,the potential Jedi never did)to casually controlling th minds of beings for no good reason(obi wan in AotCs).

I understand that the Jedi partly de- humanize their members to keep them from falling to the Dark Side,but has anone ever considered what the point is then? Perhaps the Jedi don't deserve to exist.

I mean,what are the Jedi there for? Certainly non Force users of the Galaxy can create a force to police the galaxy? What is the purpose of the Jedi then? Well,I'd say their only real purpose is to take down Dark Side users. Whre do Dark Siders usaly comefrom? Why the Jedi Order! The current incarnation of the Sith Order was created 2,000 years before TPM by a disaffected Jedi.
Some of the most dangerous Sith have been Jedi. Dooku for instance.

Either the Jedi should deal with their problems without resorting to taking control of the destiny of others and denying them pleasures that other beings take for granted. Because truthfully,the Jedi aren't needed.


This is why I like what they have Luke do in the NJO. A person can decide whether he wants to be a Jedi or not. They're taught how to deal with love and affection,not taught to avoid it completely. There's less of a chance of a Jedi somehow falling in love and not being able to deal with it.(Anakin)

Luke's order seems to ne more human than that of the PT. They're more in touch with te people of the galaxy. The PT Jedi were very insulated fromt he galactic population. This made them seem alien to many.

If a new EU was started,and the Jedi followed the rules of the Old Jedi Order, I would not lik it at all. It just would fly in the face of what I believe Star Wars stands for.

So,you see guys,what pleases you,would not please me. Everyone has different views of Star Wars and no one will ever be satisfied. If an U like the one I described above was startd, I might just become a purist myself
and complain about how the EU has ruined the meaning of star Wars.

There's my opinion. Reposed from another thread. And no,I'm not trying to flame,I'm stating anopinion.

I say stick with the NJO. We might be pleasantly surprise at the end.

 

If the movie you are comparing the EU novels to is TPM, then even the Glove of Darth Vader series is better

 

Amen Trias. Amen.

 

Trias, even at my best, I couold not have put it better myself.

 

lol Trias, I think I finally understand how the old Jedi Order came about



Qui-Gon: She dumped me AGAIN
Yoda: Of the darkside Relationships are
Mace Windu: Hey I got an Idea lets make it so no Jedi will ever Marry or have children
Qui-Gon: Thats a great Idea, but how will we ever get new Jedi recruits if we can't reproduce?
Mace Windu: We'll just steal Force Sensitive Babies away from their Mothers and train them
Yoda: Great Idea this is, use it we must
Qui-Gon: OK now onto our next topic, of how the force and Galaxy revolve around the Gunguns
Yoda: Hot, Jar-Jare Binks Is


Maybe Anakin\Vader did everybody a favor

 

I think that the NJO has been good so far, but it has had its faults. I think that there is going to be a big suprise at the end of the NJO. I also like Lukes Jedi Order better and cant wait for it to be better established after the NJO.