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ST The New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Blazer-Smith, Dec 4, 2014.

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  1. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013


    We've been given far more than "broadstrokes"... we even have the last scene of the film pretty much spelt out. Whether one believes the spoilers or not is another thing, but I'm not sure there's much point not believing them at this juncture. Better to accept them as being broadly accurate and reflective of the film (for better or worse).Besides, there isn't anything in that example of GOTG that's incongruous in and of itself... that’s just an “A meets B, so A and B go to C and A, B and C have a fight with X, Y and Z”. In terms of TFA it seems we’re much more “A isn’t in the film, but B goes to F, who we thought was C, and D does soemthing that seems out of character”. But yeah, sure, some of this will come out in the wash, but it's not exactly the same as the GOTG example... ;)
     
  2. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 30, 2014
    [​IMG]

    Is that a Rebel icon on the TIE wings?
     
  3. Blazer-Smith

    Blazer-Smith Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 28, 2004
    You are quoting movies that you have seen. You haven't seen TFA, nor have you read a script. If this plays out as bad as Crystal Skull then I'll be the first to bash. Until then, we don't know enough yet to say this is a bad movie or a good movie. If people's preferences for TFA are narrowly defined (i.e. Luke has to be the man or Han can't die) then they will be sorely disappointed no matter how good or bad the movie turns out. It's harsh to judge this movie now as good or bad.
     
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  4. Ben R

    Ben R Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 26, 2000

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. vin

    vin Chosen One star 6

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    Dec 16, 1999
    Looks like a TIE from the Rebels series with the graffiti.
     
  6. Blazer-Smith

    Blazer-Smith Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 28, 2004
    [​IMG]
     
  7. DarthLightlyBruise

    DarthLightlyBruise Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 11, 2015
    I think you responded to the wrong person. I was simply saying that the "lightsaber falling to the ground" rumor sounds like a refreshingly artistic choice. There's nothing in my post asserting the necessity of explaining the entire background of how the lightsaber travelled from Bespin in ESB to Jakku in TFA. It's possible you just completed a literature 101 class, and have decided that everyone is in need of a PSA on the subject, but I assure you it's not something I need. I generally agree. Not everything needs to be explained. I prefer hints of the past in a story - glimpses of what came before - as opposed to full on detailed back stories.
     
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  8. Max@TSWP

    Max@TSWP Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 21, 2014

    That is exactly why I don't think the Bespin saber has anything to do with Luke in TFA. It is simply used to get the story in motion and provide a cat and mouse chase. That's all.
     
  9. DarthLightlyBruise

    DarthLightlyBruise Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 11, 2015
    Have to say that I generally agree with DarthPJ, though I'd temper that with the fact that there are some key details we don't know about yet, including the role of Uber and the First Order, and the role of Luke and the lightsaber. Those details could alleviate some of the problems you seem to have.

    That said, I think the main narrative beats of this film are pretty clear. If you don't like that narrative outline, it's quite possible that you'll have serious issues with the film. If, like me, you really like what you're seeing, then you are far less likely to have problems with the film.

    Execution may change a lot of minds on both sides of that divide, but the field has been narrowed. People who want an OT-esque adventure with relatable characters and a dash of mysticism, seem to be getting it. Those who crave the political intrigue and dense world-building of the PT, seem to not be getting it. This is likely to play out in this way in December, and I suspect we will be having many of the same arguments with many of the same people.

    :)
     
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  10. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    I think some people are worrying a little too early and need to give it time. However, I can somewhat understand where they're coming from.

    The problem I had with the first Avengers movie is that I never really got an overwhelming sense that the fighting had value. Loki wanted to take over Earth, I guess, and use humans as his subjects. It was a good movie, but it never really gave me a sense that the bad guys had a huge goal.

    As for TFA, we know NOTHING about "Uber". We don't know who he is, where he came from, and what he wants. Palpatine wanted the Jedi dead and to take over the galaxy. One can assume that Uber wants that but we don't know. He could want complete and utter control over the Force and everything about it and thus manipulate all life in the galaxy. He could want revenge over some ancient war. He could want to create a Sith army of super-Force-sensitive soldiers. And all of this (or none of this) could have its basis in the light saber.

    But none of this will be revealed now. One thing MSW has not given us is dialogue.

    But anyway, we're beating a dead horse. I'm sure not helping in this matter by ranting on and on.8-}
     
  11. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    My points are in reference to the spoilers and what this may mean for the film, and not the film itself... which as you state, none of us have seen. As for the examples used, I was merely citing films where elements causing concern amongst fan circles, prior to release, came to fruition when the films were released.
     
  12. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    No, I have this. It's the Previews exclusive Legacy Collection TIE with Hobbie, from a few years ago:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Legacy-Previews-Exclusive/dp/B001B68XMY#
     
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  13. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    I'm not sure it's that DLB. I for one would like to see something with less political intrigue and more overt lines/distinction between the antagonists/protagonists for the ST... so yes, bring us that clear delineation. As far as world building is concerned, I believe both the OT and PT excelled at that, so I’d like to see an element of that in the ST for sure. But this for me is more about the story and the appropriate methods used in storytelling. I'm not particularly liking some of the choices that Abrams appears to be making in terms of the artifice of mystery. That doesn’t sound like the OT to me... if it were, perhaps the subtitle for ANH would have been ‘The Search for Yoda’, or ‘The Mystery of the Emperor’. Again, using Luke as an example, I’m completely ok with Luke Skywalker not being in TFA. So why does Abrams need to make it part of the narrative at all? Why this compulsion to tease and reveal? I’m just looking for something to make me feel like there’s a compelling story to all this rather than something that’s just more of the same (be it OT or PT). At the moment, I’m not really seeing that. I certainly like the look of the film, from the trailers and costumes etc. but from a story perspective, it seems somewhat disappointing thus far.
     
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  14. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    PJ, out of interest, could you tell me the following answers please?

    - Where is Luke, how long has he been missing, why is he missing, why is he not helping out with the current problem facing the galaxy (I appreciate these are most likely linked)?

    - Who (if anybody) is related to who? If there are such legacy characters, how much are a) they aware of their true lineage and b) if they are related, how much are their relatives aware of their true identity?

    - If there are legacy kids involved, but they are separated from the parents, why are they separated (again, I appreciate this is probably linked to the question above)?

    - How exactly does the lightsaber factor into the plot, why is it important to the villains and how at the end does it lead to Luke?

    - which characters can use the force?

    - what exactly happened in regards to the rumoured flashbacks?

    I don't think anybody on these boards can accurately provide the answers to the above at present. Ergo, we don't know the full story. Not at all.
     
  15. DarthLightlyBruise

    DarthLightlyBruise Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 11, 2015
    Understood. But in that case, I think you really do need to wait until more details are revealed before starting to make any judgments. If, as you suspect, Luke is being used as a contrived element of mystery throughout the film, I will probably share your concern. But we simply don't know much about how Luke fits into the broader narrative to worry about that too much.

    Personally, I think everything will play out like A New Hope, but with hints of Yoda littered throughout (from Obi-Wan, Leia, etc) and Luke jetting off to see Yoda at the end of the film. And I'm perfectly fine with two parallel story elements happening concurrently. The fight against the First Order can coexist quite seamlessly with the search for Luke, IMO.
     
  16. Blazer-Smith

    Blazer-Smith Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 28, 2004
    EXACTLY! People think they know this movie.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Granek

    Granek Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 12, 2012
    I just want this movie to get come out so I can have my post RoTJ novel fix. I NEED to know what happens up to Ep VII
     
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  18. darth dariakus

    darth dariakus Jedi Master star 2

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    Nov 6, 2014
    We have, at best, a half-complete list of scenes and characters that appear in them. We have virtually no idea of what's said in any of these, which means we have no idea what the story is. People are trying to fill in the gaps with their own preconceived notions, and are fabricating experiences in their head that will never match what we end up seeing on screen. What's worse, we don't even have a bare bones synopsis. Just a list of scenes and characters that appear in them, with maybe 2-3 important moments spelled out in such prolific detail as "The General pushes the button anyway."

    I get that we're all starved for information, and that we will never be sated until the film is out no matter how many teasers and trailers and images they give us. Trust me, I'm riding that hype train too right now. And it's fun to speculate what we think happens based on the scant information we have. But attempting to prejudge the film on any of the information we've got to this point feels like an exercise in futility or internet trolling, I'm not sure which.

    Though I guess there's not much difference between the two...
     
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  19. Danfromumbrella

    Danfromumbrella Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 20, 2014
    I love when people act like they know the story and pre-judge the movie.

    You peeps don't even know who UBER IS for crying out loud. We don't even know any dialog. Why are you pretending to have some great idea about this movie? You don't even know the story arch of the three movies, the whole point of the series.
     
  20. Luke'sSeveredHand

    Luke'sSeveredHand Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 21, 2014
    I don't know why, but I'm getting the feeling that Uber is going to be Thrawn, but with his character tweaked from the one in the novels.
     
  21. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    sure and played by Cumberbatch in VIII and IX. He only appears to be zombie like in this movie. [face_whistling]
     
  22. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    We don't know yet how much of the storyline is part of the seach for Luke and how much is part of the First Order/Superweapon storyline. The search for Luke could be just a starting point or a random topic. [face_dunno]
     
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  23. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    I really hope they reveal a brief plot synopsis for the movie very soon (like May 4th perhaps).
     
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  24. Nando

    Nando Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 12, 2014
  25. Pliolite

    Pliolite Jedi Master star 3

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    May 3, 2014

    I doubt they will. Even with official info only we already know all we need to know going into TFA. 30 years after ROTJ, the OT 3 are back, there is a new bad guy and there has been an 'awakening', ***t is about to go down, Jakku, BB-8 etc. If they say any more it's just ruining the movie for those who don't want spoilers.
     
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