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The new series of the Sith Wars

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Excellence, May 8, 2005.

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  1. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    I was thinking, how there's all this hype surrounding the KOTOR era, and how on the other side of the secptrum, we have this later but unknown Sith War Lucas has now said trasnpired before the Sith went Alias.

    This isn't a coincidence, just as the tidbits of Dark Nest paralleled with the recent Katarn article.

    Once Destiny's Way mentioned Zonama, from the time of Traitor, I recognisd quickly how it would end. It was no coincidence that the Vong appear in Rogue Planet and impact on the planet. That it would full circle back to the finale. "And he did, Gandalf," Sauron's Mouth told him sadly, "he did."

    I'm betting this "Old Old Republic" series is not a TOTJ / KOTOR spawn, but in fact only 1000yrs ago, around the Russy times and just before. I look at disparate threads and I interlink them.

    What do you think/suspect?
     
  2. RedRiverOutlaw

    RedRiverOutlaw Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 11, 2002
    I'd love the Old Old Republic book to tie in with Dark Nest. I always liked how RP tied in with the NJO...to me it added to both stories.

    Hopefully this book will do well enough that they do more stories from the times of the different Sith Wars.
     
  3. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

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    Jan 23, 2000
    I'm betting this "Old Old Republic" series is not a TOTJ / KOTOR spawn, but in fact only 1000yrs ago, around the Russy times and just before. I look at disparate threads and I interlink them.

    You should be pickin' ponies.

    The first novel is indeed a Darth Bane opus, telling his life's story up through Ruusy and the Sith 2R2. They announced it a couple weeks ago.
     
  4. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    Really? When? I must have missed that in a thread.

    Ponies, eh? And Eddy Murphy's monoloue in the background. So I was right!

    But even pulling a moon closer to its planet is a bit much . . .
     
  5. EduardoBlake

    EduardoBlake Jedi Youngling star 1

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    May 11, 2002
    Think it is mentioned in the C3 news thread.
     
  6. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

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    Jan 23, 2000
    Sue Rostoni brought it up at the Lit Continuity panel there. Brought on a large amount of golf-claps from what I recall, myself included.
     
  7. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    Golf claps? How'd you manage that with sucker-tipped fingers? [face_batting]

    I'm thinking since there's insufficient Jedi from the Revan war, a series there would be no different to one now. The Bane period would provide better interest, maybe.

    And for sith sake, lets hear these villains speak more too! It'll answer the question at least: who was his apprentice! :D
     
  8. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    this is gonna be MUST READ lit!!!

    who is writing?
    when is this coming out?
     
  9. Jon_Bidinger

    Jon_Bidinger Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Sep 18, 2003
    Matt Stover said that he heard there was a book in production, a KOTOR era story similar to the quest for the holy grail.
     
  10. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

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    Jan 23, 2000
    That one will either be the Elizabeth Hand hardcover, or one of the two "uncommiteds" that LFL is yet to announce.

    For the bloke who asked above: Drew Karpyshyn's penning the Darth Bane novel, due out summer/fall 2006-ish. The whole "Rain/Zannah" question should be conclusively answered in this one. Ghu Willing.




    (And the sucker-tipped fingers are more useful for things other than clapping...)
     
  11. jacemathem

    jacemathem Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 3, 2003
    I am hopelessly and utterly lost in this thread. [face_plain]
     
  12. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    Yesss . . . but can they shoot first?

    (that was a good one, I have to admit)

    I have this inkling, just an inkling, it might be a young adult book. I haven't been able to find any past publishing credits. Just to small game books. How'd he obtain passes to the Rey Club?
     
  13. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 19, 2003
    For the bloke who asked above: Drew Karpyshyn's penning the Darth Bane novel, due out summer/fall 2006-ish. The whole "Rain/Zannah" question should be conclusively answered in this one. Ghu Willing.

    Crap. I was hoping he'd be doing something KOTOR-era and -style. :(
     
  14. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 19, 2003
    I have this inkling, just an inkling, it might be a young adult book. I haven't been able to find any past publishing credits. Just to small game books. How'd he obtain passes to the Rey Club?

    Novelization of the expansion to Baldur's Gate II. Script/story work on that series, and KOTOR. Probably more the latter than the former. :p
     
  15. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    I know, all of which aren't formal and professional works, really. Not saying a 400 page novel has to be a baseline of comparison either. But I'm very curious how you'd score a book contract with no publishing background . . .

    Although the KOTOR is 100% accurate TOTJ finishing, that's for sure. Right down to the crowns on some saber tips.
     
  16. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 19, 2003
    I know, all of which aren't formal and professional works, really.

    The novelization (and a second unrelated Forgotten Realms novel) aren't "formal and professional works"? :confused:
     
  17. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    Are game books like Ruins of Dantooine and the Starcrafts professional? Some Warcrafts have gotten positive feedback, I've noticed. They're usually given to entrants on the publishing scene. Feedback has showed those weren't the shinest of books. And due to their nature, you actually can't afford them to be. Game books are supposed to be cheap budgeted. Thus their famous cover arts and fonts. And from a novelist's standpoint, you can't devote the same resources to penning a formal novel as you would one of those. The pay;s different too.

    And with Forgotten Realms so littered with elfs, dwarfs and dragons, what's really original about them? By necessity, you'd have to focus all your ingenuity on way of writing and characterisation, to offset the same type of stories readers can see anywhere else.
     
  18. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 19, 2003
    Are game books like Ruins of Dantooine and the Starcrafts professional?

    As much as the other Star Wars novels (or novelizations, when the first StarCraft book is being considered) are, yes.

    They're usually given to entrants on the publishing scene.

    Except, of course, when they aren't. Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca Moesta? Tracy Hickman? Christie Golden? Keith R.A. DeCandido? And Richard Knaak and Jeff Grubb weren't newcomers to writing, either, though I believe that most of their earlier work was for TSR which you later deride. In fact, the two Star Wars ones seem to be the only ones which adhere to that rule--if, of course, you discard the first game-based incarnation, the X-wing series.

    Game books are supposed to be cheap budgeted. Thus their famous cover arts and fonts.

    Ruins of Dantooine appears to have scarred you; most game books that I've read have featured original art for their covers, and often (admittedly, not always) are of quite reasonable length.

    The pay;s different too.

    Not true. (At least, for the Blizzard ones, and presumably the other ones put out by Pocket, though I don't know for sure who their editor(s) was/were.)

    And with Forgotten Realms so littered with elfs, dwarfs and dragons, what's really original about them? By necessity, you'd have to focus all your ingenuity on way of writing and characterisation, to offset the same type of stories readers can see anywhere else.

    And how does that differ from, well, most every other fantasy (and a decent chunk of sci-fi) novel?
     
  19. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    Dantooine hasn't scarred me; I haven't read it, and doesn't interest me to.

    Not saying Forgotten Realm's cliche creatures are no different to other sci fi cliche. But in this day and age, when there is little creativty and so many ideas have been copied ad hoc, it now comes down to the way you write, not what you write.

    "People" are saying Martin's 1996 Song of Ice and Fire was a hit because it presented tired reaedrs with something different. Perhaps seeing heros not sailing off into the golden sunset was, and that was the case for the Stark lord. It was still the same ascendency politicking, but what set it apart was distinctive characterisation.

    Black Fleet and Corellian trilogies, to say nothing of X-wings, have showed you can have non-sacred movie names wininng the day.

    But a game book is not the same as a full novel, and while the pay may vary from publisher, lets face it: it's not going to be the same as a full novelist's. If it was, it wouldn't be a cheap game book. And that';s how they're designed to be. You can ask any well-connected author, you'll get the same response. I'm not bringing Star Warsian examples into this, because SW is a realm apart when it comes to preceived quality, in the last half decade. Conceptualisation has chanegd; their percieved market has changed.
     
  20. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

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    Jan 23, 2000
    To me, I consider MOST media tie-ins to be mind popcorn; to quote Terry Pratchett, "if you put salt and butter on it, it tastes like salty butter." Whereas mind candy actually has a flavor, even if that flavor is "sweet" or "bubblegum" or "chocolate." There's also the one-trick ponies (Piers Anthony) that are the M&Ms of SF: it was new at first, and lots of people like it, so they make LOTS more.

    And James Joyce would be the caviar and escargot: lots of people will praise it as the greatest, even though they would never dream of eating it themselves.

    Right now, "fat fantasy" (i.e., Jordan, Goodkind, Donaldson, Brooks, etc.) is far ahead of media-product fantasy (i.e., Star Wars, Dragonlance, Conan, Magic:TG, etc.) in sheer sales figures, though it's really too soon to tell how it will stand the test of time. The only old "fantasy" proper is Tolkien, and that's only several decades old.

    Will today's fat fantasy become tomorrow's respectable fiction? Maybe, maybe not. And yes, less successful authors have been quoted in very acrimonious terms about the success those fat fantasy authors are having. One I read from a very artistically "genuine" SF writer who had not written best-seller yet, damned Goodkind for setting the record for highest SF/F manuscript purchase offer by a publisher, for the very generous payout Goodkind got from Tom Doherty Associates for the 300,000-word initial version of Wizard's First Rule.

    The TOR reviewers see submissions every day. They knew *something* was good about WFR, and yet it wasn't a media tie-in, so it had to stand on its own merits. They were confident enough of those merits to pay more for them than had ever been paid before to a fantasy author, at that time. Sounds like a classic case of sour grapes on the part of the less-successful author, and his publisher (who echoed the sentiment).
     
  21. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    While I've yet to read Jordan or Goodkind, I'm monitoring their series very closely. The subtle, almost delicate game of how far can you lead your loyal readership and still squeeze the milk from thedry udder. They know what they're doing. It's a money game at the expense of substance, and after this much time, I have to agree.

    Last night, I was perusing around Wheel of Time 10: crossroads of Twilight. The Amazon reviews were hilarious. As was some of Dave Wolverton's for his first Runelord book, penned under his alias of David Farland. Ice and Fire is becoming that, but in argument at least the characters are highly entertaining and events have changed.

    I ask myself just how high, really, do publishers really say they want books. And I see several dozen individual names across any shop shelf, their cliche artifacts, and I ask myself, why aren't I playing more Sith Lords instead? :p
     
  22. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 19, 2003
    You can ask any well-connected author, you'll get the same response.

    And you'll get the same response when asking about any tie-in, including Star Wars. There's no difference between them.

    While I've yet to read Jordan or Goodkind, I'm monitoring their series very closely. The subtle, almost delicate game of how far can you lead your loyal readership and still squeeze the milk from thedry udder.

    Goodkind's done after two more books. And I certainly wouldn't call the series "a dry udder". Now, Jordan hit that partway through book one. :p

    They know what they're doing. It's a money game at the expense of substance, and after this much time, I have to agree.

    I disagree. :)

    And I see several dozen individual names across any shop shelf, their cliche artifacts, and I ask myself, why aren't I playing more Sith Lords instead?

    Because you prefer a story with an ending? :D
     
  23. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

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    Jul 28, 2002
    I'm only one world after Telos thus far.

    If Jordan's series isn't milking the cow's udder as long as possible, well, hundreds of reviews must be mistaken. :p

    I think this was Del Rey's safet net. They want a TOTJ-type period, but the uppity fans will bawl without their movie names. Perhaps moving that period closer is a compromise.
     
  24. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 19, 2003
    If Jordan's series isn't milking the cow's udder as long as possible, well, hundreds of reviews must be mistaken. :p

    Oh, I'm not debating Jordan milking at all. :p
     
  25. DaJames

    DaJames Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 1, 2000
    Of course, might be helpful for you to read WoT yourself, Excellence, then you can have first-hand experience of the milking.

    Actually, the first 7 books are great, Book 8 really begun the milking in earnest, Jordan released the udder (for lack of desire for a better term :p ) with Book 9 speeding the story up, making it interesting (in fact, it's my favourite) then crashed heavily into the cows again in Book 10.

    I believe current estimates are that he'll be finished around 2700 A.D

    And heaven forbid, Star Wars isn't milking at all ;)
     
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