Fanclub <=*=> The New Sith Order =*= Return of the Sith <=*=>... v.5

Ah I see - gotcha ... I don't get it ... WHY is it a number of Sith in particular - well some being Ancient Sith Lords and some well even like Anakin - they sought just POWER BUT unlike say Palpatine or Darth Vitiate or Count Dooku or Darth Caedus or Marka Ragnos or Darth Plagueis or Naga Sadow to name a few whom were Powerful BUT also were calculating individuals at times - I never understood then most Sith all they 'gave a Force' about was POWER BUT it seems if they did they just wanted more of it which is understandable BUT they never understood it or studied it in context so that they could have a better working knowledge of The Force AND they could also then become more patient and Powerful ... given Palpatine even remarked to Anakin 'one must study ALL the aspects of the Force...not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi...' and yet some Sith never 'gave a Force' about studying ... well I mean for instance Darth Maul and Anakin whom cared only for dominion but probably would have left the politics and the study to someone else whereas Palpatine patiently studied Sith history and aspects and concepts Ancient and new under Darth Plaguies ...

 

Citing wizards.com, Time Tales says, "On Korriban, time flows more slowly than on other worlds –a side-effect of such concentrated Dark Side power." Is it possible that on Korriban, 2000 years past in between the arrival of the Jedi Exiles and the arrival of the Daragons, but in the rest of the galaxy, 25,000 years past?

 

When the Daragons showed up, the Sith should have started building up their military instead of attacking the Republic asap. That way, when the Republic's borders reached Sith space, the Sith would be ready.

 

The Massassi War: Part I:

The first Massassi warriors to arrive on the fourth moon of Yavin were intelligent beings. However, their utter devotion to Dark Lord of the Sith Naga Sadow rendered moot their capacity for independent thought. To Sadow, the Massassi were born and bred to build temples in his honor and to defend him until death; nothing more. Perhaps it was for this reason that Sadow's experiments in Sith alchemy mutated his followers into rudimentary brutes.

Not all Massassi on Yavin 4 were subjected to Sadow's alchemical manipulations, however. A tribe of clerics who preferred independence over mindless labor turned their backs on their master, quietly venturing out to make a home of their own. These Massassi were pioneers, masters of their own destinies. But if Sadow were to discover their betrayal, there would come a reckoning....

The Massassi War: Part II:

As a small tribe of cultured warriors, the intelligent Massassi thrived in the harsh jungles of Yavin 4. For a time they were content with their lives, but contentment led to restlessness. They longed for more. The uncontested rule and grand temples of Naga Sadow called to their warrior's vanity. A plan emerged and the tribe marched on Sadow's territory.

But Sadow, having learned of their independent existence, had anticipated their aggression. His mutated brutes ambushed the would-be usurpers. The sheer magnitude of their blunt-force attack was enough to take down an army. Relying on their wit to improvise and strategize, the smarter Massassi not only protected themselves from the onslaught, but advanced on their goal.

For days, the tribe stormed the temples their devolved cousins built. But where was the Dark Lord they had built them for? They had expected Naga Sadow would face them; they'd even accepted the likelihood most or all would fall to their former master. Instead, wave after wave of mutated brutes attacked and succumbed until there were none left to fight and the tribe stood triumphant inside the greatest of Sadow's temples. It was then, at long last, that Naga Sadow appeared....

The Massassi War: Part III:

"You have succeeded," Sadow declared. "You have defied the odds, killed many times more your own, taken all you so desperately coveted. You have fought and bled and sacrificed to arrive at this moment. All that remains is for you to strike me down. But once you have, what would you do then, without your brothers to murder? With nothing left to conquer on this orb?"

The Massassi slackened, unable to offer a response. There was none to give. "I commend you on the mass slaughter of your own kind," Sadow intoned as hundreds of Massassi brutes flooded into the temple chamber. "You have seen the pinnacle of your days, the extent of your unchecked avarice. Think of it as the first of two gifts. The other I bestow on you now, though you were meant to have received it along with your fellow Massassi."

Over time, the Massassi on Yavin 4 grew in number as they rebuilt that which they destroyed. They would never war amongst themselves again.

What are the implications of this new lore? Do intelligent Massassi still roam the jungles of Yavin?

 

Hmm interesting comments on the Massassi Sith ... particularly on the time of Naga Sadow - given I always thought the Massassi - particularly being the Ancient Ancient Sith - they were more of a violent and angry war-like tribe at times ...but if the fact some were independent and quite intelligent to their extent ...

Now that you mention it - would Palpatine have benefited IF he chose to have a secret clone army of Massassi Sith Warriors? Or by then Massassi Sith more or less really were dead even if one could speculate some fanatics ruled the jungles of Yavin? Or perhaps who knows other Ancient Sith Worlds both Canon and EU - so besides Korriban - we have Ziost, Zigoola, Dromund Kaas ...

 

Palpatine wasn't openly a Sith. Deploying Massassi warriors would make people ask questions that he'd rather they not ask.

 

Ah! True - BUT then again given how Palpatine was able to manipulate both sides and play the Republic and the Separatists for stupid at times - surely he wouldn't have had trouble with an army of Massassi Sith Warriors or something eh? I mean given if he managed to hide and conceal his Sith Moniker of Darth Sidious to many save only a select few ... surely he could have no trouble with an army of Massassi Sith Warriors; I mean he did bother with a 'Second Clone Army' being nothing more than another 1-2 million Sparti-Technology Clone Troopers ...and despite the rumors and suspicions from a few ... I mean surely then he could have secretly done other things - and besides - didn't he have a few 'dirty little secret's at times? I mean if he wanted to raise a secret Army of Dark Acrolytes and hired Cad Bane to get the job done ...

 

But SURELY there is the classic saying 'the greatest danger and threat to the best prepared plans is a lack of adaptation and sudden changes...' indeed ... I always wondered what Palpatine would have had up his 'Sheev' if honestly the Rule of Two Sith Grand Scheme went DOWN SOUTH LOPSIDED - so suppose IF Count Dooku didn't die and defected back to the Republic and Jedi Order ... IF Anakin had far more emotional backbone and willpower and resisted the temptation of Midichlorian Manipulation ...

Given where I did once post a thread on how 'well Palpatine can really or truly foresee the future as he claims that 'EVERYTHING IS PROCEEDING AS I HAVE FORESEEN...''

I mean in the EU given the Darth Plagueis novel where Palpatine even before he met Darth Plagueis he already acquired a sizeable amount if not a treasure trove of Ancient Sith Tomes and secrets and was intrigued by the study and Power that they offered ... given then surely Palpatine would have known sooner his destiny or the fact surely he would have developed some new aspects of Force Powers or Dark Side aspects ... considering later he compiled his works into well some works like The Book of Sith ...

Actually come to think of it - given next to Ajunta Pall - Sorzus Syn was also another prominent Ancient Sith Lord - well she was once a Jedi but turned Dark and whom had accompanied Ajunta Pall to Korriban and dominated and later cross-bred with the Massassi Sith ... given she was stated to have also contributed to the Sith Code ... I wonder how she would have found Palpatine's Book of Sith or how he ran the Rule of Two ...

 

I wonder, what would have happened if Sidious drank from the Font of Power and/or bathed in the Pool of Knowledge?

 

It is likely whilst Palpatine would become somewhat 'immortal' - he might end up like The Mother aka Abeloth and the fact he may even become MORE TWISTED than usual and the fact how Abeloth relied on Avatars - just as Palpatine needed fresh Clone Bodies and Essence Transfer ... and how Palpatine - don't forget Palpatine had quite a concentration of Dark Side Energy - you could argue he was a semi-Nexus of Dark Side Power ... and the problems as you know if you become TOO POWERFUL ... it could be a critical overload - I mean I'm sure we've seen plenty of films, comics and such where someone becomes overfed with Power and Energy ... and its more bad to them than good ...

PLUS given Palpatine alone had his body ravaged by the intensity of the Dark Side of the Force ... who knows what would happen IF he drank the Font of Power or gained MORE KNOWLEDGE of the POOL OF KNOWLEDGE eh? Plus - look at where in Marvel - The Leader - well Dr. Samuel Sterns - he was said to be extremely intelligent BUT BUT as he took up one time practically ALL THE KNOWLEDGE and INFINITE KNOWLEDGE of the Universe - even that was just far too much for him ... and back to Palpatine - one way or another in the end as he was intensely concentrated with Dark Side Energy he might end up more twisted than ever ... he may be near-omnipotent - but I'd say far from undefeatable ...

Well - wasn't the time Palpatine revealing himself to Anakin more or less the time it was near END-GAME for the Clone Wars anyhow? And how Anakin had been 'put to the test' at times to see what potency he had to be a Dark Side Apprentice ... and how Palpatine knew of Anakin's emotional attachment to Padme and his dependency on her ... and his insecurities ... I still wonder if Palpatine had something to do with conjuring the disturbing images of Padme dying in childbirth in the first place...

And then again - whilst this is a F.I.T.S. What-If scenario - I was wondering WHY on EARTH Anakin and Padme would have Luke and Leia - now I know we might not get Luke and Leia IF Anakin and Padme well ... 'Reproduced' BUT SURELY they should have known the burden IF the Jedi Council and Senate found out eh? Given Anakin was troubled but he tried to calm down Padme by masking it with happiness...

 

~I give in to the power of the Dark Side~

 

People use the word "selfish" like it's some kind of pejorative, but selfishness is the only way life can succeed. While other hypocrites claim to vilify this attitude, the Sith celebrate the exaltation of the self, recognizing that it is only by acquiring personal power that you stand any chance of positively affecting your world. This is what makes the Sith all-powerful; they know what they want, and they will stop at nothing to obtain it. Because of this, only the Sith deserve to control everything. As Darth Sidious said, "Everything of significance is the result of conquest."

I am an ardent admirer of Darth Bane and his Rule of Two, and I accept Darth Sidious to have been the Sith'ari.

My knowledge of the Sith is primarily focused on Darth Bane's line, especially Darth Sidious, its final culmination. He eradicated the Jedi and created an Empire based on the tenets of the Sith. I read everything about him and Darth Vader that I can.

As a member of the Order, I would consider it my geas to spread the scope of Sith influence. The Force has gifted me with a knack for saying the right things; I have always found that most mind are malleable when confronted with the right degree of eloquence. This is a gift I have turned to the domination of others. The words of Darth Plagueis are never far from my mind: "You must begin by gaining power over yourself, then another, then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the galaxy itself."

Wonoksh Kyâsik nun.

 

The whole notion of "spoilers" is bizarre to me. I want to know everything I can; I don't care about the order in which I learn certain things. Knowledge is power, and, "power is the point."

 

Nexys, you are hungry for knowledge and I find that refreshing. I've sat here in the shadows, learning from the other Lords here as I am lacking in much knowledge, but I can tell you, Knowledge truly is power.

You will go far.

 

AH! But if I may - didn't Darth Andeddu claim that 'Knowledge is Power ... AND SITH DO NOT SHARE POWER!' - interesting isn't it? In fact now that you mention it now and then - were there MORE Sith Lords who went alone - well acted lone wolf ... AND NEVER TOOK AN APPRENTICE ... I mean look at Darth Nihilus - he ironically 'NEVER GAVE A FORCE!' about the Sith or anyone yet he's a Sith Lord - he only wanted Power and to satisfy his Hunger ... not an easy job or task considering he's a walking Wound in the Force...then again Palpatine was one whom 'didn't give a Force' about anybody and not even loyal minions - only getting rid of them once they were of no more usage ...

Also - didn't Palpatine remark to Darth Maul after making quick work of Savage Oppress that 'the First and Only Reality of the Sith...' there can only be Two ... and about the Rule of Two ... and don't forget then again the only reality as well of the Sith in the end - one way or another - is Betrayal, Fear of Death and endless cycles of Raw Emotional Violence one way or another ... considering the Rule of Two is just in the end cycles of Betrayal and the Apprentice MUST KILL THE MASTER and that's about it ... to ensure the cycle ... but then again considering a transformation from the armored war and blood-thirsty mob-mentality animalistic brutes of Korriban to the 'Phantom Menaces' of Always Two and But Two not One ...

Ah - but then again DarthNexys what about the Ancient violent thugs and animalistic well mob-mentality minded Sith on Korriban and such? Given how even Darth Bane was disgusted by the delusional Sith by his time and how he 'FORCED' Kaan to literally bomb the Brotherhood of Darkness into extinction ... and then establish the Rule of Two Baneite System - yet Darth Plagueis resented it ... and the fact how Darth Plagueis 'FORCED' Palpatine to 'SHEEVER' in Cold Cold Training early in his days as a Sith Apprentice ...and considering what Darth Plagueis had manipulated Palpatine into ... considering he goaded Palpatine discreetly to murder House Palpatine in COld Cold Blood ... and considering such ... then again would you say Palpatine COULD have achieved the Sith Grand Scheme WITHOUT Darth Plagueis's help? Or it would have been 1 BILLION THOUSAND
Googolplex Googolplex Vigintillion Times harder ...


In fact - can you imagine IF and I say IF Ancient Sith Lords had established the Rule of Two long before Darth Bane or a similar system to it? I'm talking Tulak Hord, King Adas, Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd to name a few ... could it have worked or not worked?

Given when Darth Krayt travelled to Korriban to study the Dark Side - and his Rule of One - the One Sith Empire was not approved and accused of heresy and betrayal of Sith Ideals and how he was mocked by spirits of Ancient Sith Lords when he sought help from them ...

 

I don't believe a Baneite system could have come into being any time before it did. The nature of the Sith was always to seek more and more power, regardless of the consequences. It took a certain amount of time for enough mistakes to be made before someone could realize the system needed to change. One of the many remarkable things about the Rule of Two was that it required the Sith to adopt a sort of selflessness, in the sense that they were to lay groundwork for results they would never see. Each generation's duty was to ensure that the the next generation would be stronger. Plagueis's training of Sidious was no exception; he was right to "inure him to pain from the start." Without Plagueis to guide him, Sidious could very well have become some bloodthirsty thug, as opposed to the ruler of the galaxy.

 

Hello again! Yes - but I was merely speculating next to Palpatine - who could have amongst the Ancient Sith Lords - would have had potential to also have been a candidate to run and succeed the Sith Grand Scheme and Baneite Rule of Two ... I mean true - many Ancient Sith were rather blood-thirsty violent and animalistic mob-mentality minded and selfish brutes whom didn't GIVE A FORCE other than gaining more Power ... and some even like Darth Nihilus didn't 'GIVE A FORCE ABOUT THE SITH' at all or some like Darth Andeddu whom believed it was NOT NECESSARY TO SHARE POWER as Sith ... but I mean look at King Adas or Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos - they were prominent and VERY POWERFUL Sith Lords in their days and by Ancient Sith standards AND the fact Marka Ragnos was able to best Simus - one of his Powerful rivals ... and the fact Marka Ragnos eliminated his competitors by simply plotting them and playing them for stupid against one another ... surely then Marka Ragnos would have been another contender for the Rule of Two eh? Considering his influence Powerful enough that Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh were 'FORCED' to fight against one another for the mantle of Sith Lord ...

And indeed - considering up until Darth Bane most Ancient Sith were but violent, angry, selfish and blood-thirsty mob-mentality minded brutes and delusional like Kaan ... and considering they had hordes and mobs yet Darth Bane decides 'always two there be ... a Master and an Apprentice ... no more ... no less...' and the fact how Master Yoda realized the Baneite Sith were but the 'Phantom Menaces' after 1000 years - rather than hordes and mobs of violent angry Sith Warriors or delusional mob-mentality minded selfish beasts of Korriban ...

And indeed considering Darth Plagueis 'FORCED' Palpatine to 'SHEE-VER' in Mygeeto for starters ... and training him to a high standard ...

But Palpatine even before meeting Darth Plagueis - he was somewhat aware of his Powers - probably not 100% fully but somehow ... and how he was able to gather a treasure trove of Sith Tomes and about Power ... surely then Palpatine even without Darth Plagueis's help he may have been another Marka Ragnos II in a sense or such? I mean prominent Ancient Sith Lords - before the Baneite System or Rule of Two - they did manage to rise to Power using both Influence, Wit, Power and Brute Force ... couldn't Palpatine do the same? Given he did admit his interest in Galactic Politics when he met Darth Plaguies and he expressed 'I WANT ... TO RULE!' when he was desperate and pleaded with Darth Plagueis to help him rid of House Palpatine whom threatened their friendship and working relationship ...

But in the end - wouldn't you agree 'civilized Sith' so Baneite Sith or the 'Architects of the Future' as Darth Plagueis remarked to Palpatine - or 'Phantom Menaces' or simply Ancient violent mob-mentality minded thugs and delusional idiots like Kaan in the end - Sith will only have the reality being: TREACHERY, FEAR - FEAR OF DEATH AND LOSING POWER, and waves of endless cycles of Raw Emotional Violence one way or another ...

 

It's difficult for me to imagine Palpatine without Plagueis having been in his life. He may very well have risen to a position of power, but more likely that of some petty crime lord instead of Galactic Emperor.

If you look at Palpatine's life before Plagueis, his only real passion was speeder racing. He might have simply pursued that, committing to it all his innate ruthlessness and latent dark side power. I had the impression that his interest in politics was somewhat idle, and without Plagueis's encouragement, he would not have entered the field.

Most importantly, without his Muun master, he would not have been Darth Sidious. He would have been a secret Dark Side adept, but not a Sith Lord. It's very interesting to me that you place such prominence on the idea of Palpatine without Plagueis; it is not an avenue of thought I had ever explored.

For my part, I would say that the ultimate reality of the Sith is summed up by the tenet, "Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law." The Sith ask the only two questions that matter: "What do I want?" and, "What am I willing to do to get what I want?" This was the point of Sidious's "What do you want?" speech in the Revenge of the Sith novel, when he tells Anakin to "Do the one thing the Jedi fear most: make up your own mind... give yourself permission to gain that power, and allow yourself license to use it."

The would-be Jedi Ferus Olin once thought to himself, "Youth, age, the sick, the weak... they do not enter the Sith's calculations. They simply go after what they want." He meant it as a criticism, but it is what makes the Sith so focused, so powerful, and so admirable.