The New Testament Teaches That Everyone Will Be Saved.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Binary_Sunset, Jan 14, 2002.

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  1. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

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    I think it is clear that, according to the 27 books of the New Testament, on the Last Day when Christ returns and all mankind is resurrected, every single person will be resurrected to everlasting joy.

    In other words, no hell or damnation. Every single person gets to spend eternity in Paradise.

    I cordially challenge those who believe in hell and eternal damnation to try to prove me wrong from the New Testament.

    One restriction: I will not, in this thread, deal with verses from the book of Revelation. That is because this enigmatic book has unique interpretative difficulties. Rather than touch the book of Revelation here, I believe it deserves its own thread.

    So, confining yourself to the first 26 books of the New Testament, try to disprove that all men will be saved.
  2. Rouge Null Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 24, 2000
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    Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the light." And I can't quote the next part because I'm not sure of the wording, but he says something LIKE "no one will come to the Father except through me." That in itself says nothing about damnation.

    However, it also says "... that whoever believeth in him shall have eternal life."
    That means if you don't believe, you don't get into heaven. Sorry.
  3. Kenobi Maul Jedi Master

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    Oct 23, 1999
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    But isn't God forgiving?

    Surely, Gandhi can't burn in the fires of hell? I can think off the top of my head of a dozen clergymen (dead or alive), who deserve to suffer eternal damnation more than Gandhi.

    I believe that, no matter what you believe, if you lived your life as a good person, God will forgive whatever you did wrong. I also believe that if you're earnestly repentant at any time from now to eternity (and you stay repentant, of course) He will forgive you.

    Then again, I'm not a fundamentalist. ;)
  4. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2001
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    "Man cannot live on bread alone," so it is with life. You can live a good life, but the entire point of the Bible is to show how much God loves us and that we should love him in return.
  5. GreedoCMZ Jedi Master

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    I won't argue with it. I agree with it about 97%.
  6. Jorus_Kando Jedi Master

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    Oh yes? What about people who've never been exposed to Jesus's teachings? is it fair to shut them out of heaven for not knowing about Him? Give me a break.

    Disagree all you want, good works are just as important, if not MORE, than faith.

    What about the people who lived and died before Abraham came along? Do they burn in hell for not even knowing God was planning on laying down the game rules a few thousand years later?

  7. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

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    They all deserved to die. God wiped out humanity in a great flood and spared only Noah and his familiy. Man was a terrible race before Noah and is a terrible race now. And Jesus did say, "Go out and make disciples of all the peoples of the world." It's a Christian's duty to spread the word of God. There is also the "Great White Throne" judgement where some of these people may be spared after Hell is emptied, but since Binary doesn't want to bring up Revelations, I'll leave that aside.
  8. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    Nov 6, 2001
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    Ugh, I'd love for you to say that to one of the priests at the Newman Center here, who talked about that very idea yesterday. I find the "humanity is terrible/bad/evil" idea to be terrible. Humanity is good, because God created us.

    And Revelations does *not* refer to the end of time. It is about the beginning times of Christianity, which are long since past.

    However, I would strongly disagree with the idea that all will be saved. I do believe Christ Himself said that not all will be saved. I'm sure someone can pull the line in Scripture where He says that.
  9. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

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    Humanity sins, all of us. We can be saved by giving ourselves to God, but there are plenty of evil people in the world, past and present.
  10. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    Sure we sin. That doesn't change the fact that we are innately good. If you'd like to explain to me how we could be bad/dark/evil at the core, and yet have God (who is all Good) as our creator, please go for it.
  11. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    Not all will be saved: Mat 7:13-14, 21
  12. DarthSeti5 Jedi Grand Master

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    God wiped us out because we were so bad. I'm not saying everyone is evil to the core, but we all sin, making us all somehow bad. And as a species, we are raveging and destroying our planet. There aren't a enough good people in the world anymore.
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    You're evading my question. How could we be somehow bad at the core and have God as our creator?

    That don't work, to put it simply. We are innately good people. Some may go bad, but can always turn back to God. We sin and turn away from God, but the goodness at the core (God) remains.

    It's negativity like that which turns people away from God, and far too often at that.
  14. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

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    Gospel of thomas:

    "113. His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

    "It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

    The key word here is IS. But then again, it depends on what the meaning of "is" is, i suppose. That says to me heaven is right here right now, you just have to see it. Many of Jesus teachings can awaken you to that fact, along with Buddhist teachings that are very similar. Or don't take their teachings, perhaps thru sudden insight or meditation you can find it for yourself.
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    Heaven is not on earth. However, God's kingdom is on earth, and has been since Christ walked the earth.
  16. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

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    Man, there goes my theory! Thanks for clearing that up.
  17. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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  18. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

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  19. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    I kind of assumed you were being sarcastic. If I'm in error, please correct me :).
  20. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 21, 2000
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    Define saved. If you mean by that resurrection only, I would have to agree with you. However if you mean becoming a exhalted being, I wouldn't.
  21. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 13, 2000
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    So, confining yourself to the first 26 books of the New Testament, try to disprove that all men will be saved.


    Matthew 25:31-46

    "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
    "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
    "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
    "Then they also will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' Then He will answer them, saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



    John 14:5-6
    Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
    Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.



    Luke 13:23-30

    Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?"
    And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from,' then you will begin to say, "We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' But He will say, "I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."



    I think it is clear that, according to the 27 books of the New Testament, on the Last Day when Christ returns and all mankind is resurrected, every single person will be resurrected to everlasting joy.

    You are correct in assuming that, if one man's mistake can damn all humanity, then one man's sacrafice can save all humanity. However, as you can see from the verses above, you have to accept the gift given to you. Also, you are incorrect in your assumption that the New Testament supports the theory that all will accept Christ's sacrafice.



  22. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

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  23. LittleLadyVader Jedi Master

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    Jun 7, 2000
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    I could never believe in a God that would let people suffer in hell for eternity because of things they have absolutely no control over.
  24. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

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    Oct 28, 2000
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    There have been, so far, four N.T. passages put forth as arguments against universal salvation. I'll deal with them in four separate posts, so I don't make a monster post.

    John 14:6 says

    Jesus says to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through me."

    This verse nowhere speaks of hell or damnation. Everyone that comes to the Father comes to him through Christ. This means that everyone who is saved will be saved by Jesus Christ. But who will be saved? Answer: Everyone.

    In John 12:32 Jesus says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

    In I Corinthians 15:22 Paul wrote, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

    In I Timothy 4:10 Paul speaks of "the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."

    So, it is clear that all men will be saved. How? Through Jesus Christ. That is the meaning of John 14:6.
  25. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

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    Nov 6, 2001
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    But not all will accept or want Him and Salvation. You've skipping that part.
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