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The Newsweek/U.S. Government Koran Incident

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Obi-Wan McCartney, May 16, 2005.

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  1. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    I don't think that particular blurb is really an expression of bias, as the Patriot Act really does do that. However, I think the heart of the issue is the extent to which it does that. It's possible for taglines to exhibit bias, but I don't think that's one of them.

    Fizzling terror cases is universally bad.

    No. "Fizzling terror cases" is unclear, and contracting what was actually written obscures it even more.
     
  2. Jediflyer

    Jediflyer Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Bolstering surveillance and law-enforcement powers is a positive spin.

    Snooping and violating civil liberties is a negative spin.

    They both say the same thing, but one is much more positive towards the Bush administration.

     
  3. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 1, 2004
    " ??? Not if you think it is bad to bolster those powers. That's the whole debate of the issue, isn't it? "

    Thats the whole point of journalism Rod! They report it - YOU decide whether or not its bad to bolster those powers. I blame the American people on this one, conservative AND liberal, for enabling this to become such a trench war.
     
  4. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    "Bolstering needed/useful/other-positive-adjective-here..." is positive spin. As it is written, it's not particularly biased.
     
  5. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    No. "Fizzling terror cases" is unclear, and contracting what was actually written obscures it even more.

    Hmmmm....so it doesn't leave you with the impression that this too will just be another fizzled case? 'Cause that's the impression I get from the author.

    EDIT: Gotta work...falling behind. (GOD I love this one) Back at lunch in 45 min.
     
  6. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2001
    No; I think the language could be better, but I don't get the impression that in light of the evidence presented in the article, this will be another in a line of prosecutions that "fizzles out".

    That's the problem with using unclear language - it makes it possible to interpret the message many ways.
     
  7. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Bolstering surveillance and law-enforcement powers is a positive spin.

    No,"Keeping the country safer" would be the positive spin.

    Fox had the neutral headline.
     
  8. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    The *only* thing that keeps me from agreeing with you on this, J-Rod, is purely semantic. I think that "increases" is more neutral than "bolsters", but it's a minor thing. Overall, I don't think that there is bias in the tagline.
     
  9. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 28, 2004
    Then we have this from AP.

    Organizers said nearly 900 volunteers ? some of them armed ? had spent at least one eight-hour shift in the field through Friday, working mostly stationary patrols along a 23-mile stretch of border in Cochise County (search). The final eight-hour shift was scheduled to end at 6 a.m. Sunday.

    Ecery single AP story about the Minutemen mentioned that "some are armed". Knowing that handguns have a negative conotaion, this slants the story against the Minutemen.

    That wouldn't be a big thing, but every story about them by AP mentions this.

     
  10. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2004
    Is it not true that some of them are armed? That little excerpt probably understates things if anything. I think its pretty newsworthy that a group of Americans have formed a militia to stop border crossing whether you approve or disapprove and its certainly fair game to write that some are armed if indeed some are armed.
     
  11. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    I'm not sure it's designed to skew the story against them, though. I think it's relevant to note that some were armed; it adds credence to the reportage of Bush's concern about 'vigilantes' and puts into context concerns from other groups about potential abuses. Again, it's a question of how much information is reported - the fact that some of these people who were just 'observing' were carrying firearms is salient to the overall discussion.
     
  12. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 28, 2004
    Is it not true that some of them are armed. That little excerpt probably understates things if anything.

    Yes it is. But notice that nowhere in that story did the AP mention that firearms were never used. Thus leaving you with the impression that a bunch of gun-toting wackos were looking for trouble on the boarder.

    And it absolutely did not understate anything. Only about 30% were armed. I know this as I live in AZ, so the news covered it here extensively.

    But see how you got the wrong impression from that story?
     
  13. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2004
    Rod, the only impression I got from the article is that a group of citizens have formed in an attempt to prevent illegal immigration on the Mexican border. It in no way influenced the way I feel about it being right or wrong because I dont need an news article for that.



    EDIT:

    " And it absolutely did not understate anything. Only about 30% were armed. "


    That would depend on how you define " some ". If there is a thousand people in this militia and 30 % of them are armed I would say that qualifies as more than some.
     
  14. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    But see how you got the wrong impression from that story?

    Again, though, would the story have been more accurate if the fact that some were armed had been omitted?
     
  15. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2004
    I dont think any citizen should be walking around armed and that article or any article didnt influence that. Its who I am as a person.
     
  16. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 28, 2004
    Again, though, would the story have been more accurate if the fact that some were armed had been omitted?

    Since it was the story about the end of the project, and firearms were never used, that fact becomes a non-issue as they had mentioned it the the privious half-dozen or so stories they did on the Minuteman Project.

    As the last story, if they brought up firearms they are now obligated to mention that they were never used.
     
  17. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    I think we're getting more into what *we* felt was important than what was salient for the story. I certainly agree that if there were a violent confrontation it would have been salient to the story; an absence of violence was evident throughout the story, however, which does not, require mention.
     
  18. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 1, 2004
    " As the last story, if they brought up firearms they are now obligated to mention that they were never used. "


    The obvious reason they would bring up fire arms in the hands of a private militia is that if one of these yahoo's ( now THATS bias ) starts shooting at Mexicans there wont be an outcry from supporters of this saying " we didnt know they were armed ". Again this really boils down to how you already feel about illegal immigration and guns.
     
  19. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 28, 2004
    The obvious reason they would bring up fire arms in the hands of a private militia is that if one of these yahoo's ( now THATS bias ) starts shooting at Mexicans there wont be an outcry from supporters of this saying " we didnt know they were armed ".

    As the last story of the piece, there is no chance of that happening. The story is over. If no one has been shot by now, no one will be.

    Again this really boils down to how you already feel about illegal immigration and guns.

    I'm afraid it shows how the AP already feels about illegal immigration and guns.
     
  20. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    I think that's what you are reading into the story, J-Rod, not necessarily something that's already there.
     
  21. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 28, 2004
    I think that's what you are reading into the story, J-Rod, not necessarily something that's already there.

    I'm open to that possibility on this one. Honest. But there'll be more and I'll post them as they happen.

    IMHO, that BBC.com is pretty obvious.
     
  22. Quixotic-Sith

    Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 22, 2001
    Again, I think what's obvious is unclear language, not bias.
     
  23. Darth Mischievous

    Darth Mischievous Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Newsweek had a picture of the American flag in the trash can on its cover in their Asian edition.

    Biased?

    You decide.
     
  24. Medical-Droid

    Medical-Droid Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2001
    It's a little hard to decide anything when I haven't seen the cover, the tagline, or the story inside.

    Thanks for the link. I'll check it out in the morning - when I start forgetting words (like the "n't" above), it's time for me to go to bed.
     
  25. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Medical-Droid, I have alink on pg 5, four posts up from the bottom, of those newsweek mags.
     
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