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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT The notion that "Nothing important happens in TPM"

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth_Harmon, Jan 14, 2016.

  1. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I didn't find TPM all that childish when it came out (I was 13).

    In retrospect, there are elements specifically for children more than any other entry in the series, but there is enough depth to keep an adult returning to the film. Maybe the OT is more adult, and appeals to a wider audience, but TPM is arguably a key part in making the films more adult when watched as one story. It's certainly more complex that way.
     
  2. Darth_Harmon

    Darth_Harmon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2005

    What makes it so weird to me is that parents will teach their kids to accept and tolerate people of all races and religions, but then do a 180 and act like a bigot towards something as silly as books, tv shows and movies. Yeah yeah, I say this and then I get the "don't tell me how to raise my kids!", but seriously. They're pop fantasy sci-fi movies aimed at kids and are rated PG to a very mild PG-13. Relax.
     
  3. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I've heard this said before but I'm not sure that I understand what it is specifically people are referring to.

    Can you elaborate?

    I always thought that with all the puppets, the Ewoks, and the burp jokes, ROTJ had just as many if not more elements aimed at little kids.
     
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  4. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    It's debatable, but a few things...

    - Anakin as a nine-year-old. I completely understand it from a thematic pov, but the main reason this was done was likely so boys in the audience would have someone they can relate to.

    - Jar Jar intentionally contrasts the stoic Jedi, but likely was created in case younger audience members were getting bored of the Jedi/Sith stuff.

    - Anakin flying in the battle of Naboo. Being brought into the battle by autopilot and having to learn how to fly it from there, and actually winning the battle, would appeal to most kids I think. They feel if Anakin can, they could too.

    - The podracer announcer describing what is going on in case any kids don't follow.
     
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  5. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Ok, I get where you're coming from. I think I agree with you that young Anakin seems like the kind of character kids could relate to and that may have been Lucas's intention. Though funnily enough, my 8-year-old boy is far more enamoured with with Qui Gon!

    I'm not sure I agree about the podracer announcer thing though.
     
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  6. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    you can watch them without episode 1, but after all Palpatine rises to power through his machinations in that movie, and Anakin is brought into the fold. The big plot points of the prequels really, because leaving his mother at a more advanced age is what ultimately comes into play in the next 2 movies as he falls to the dark side
     
  7. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    That tell you everything you need to know.

    I would ask this fellow who "created" this ridiculous order why in all sanity he would not cut out Episode 4 as well?

    I mean what of importance happens in A New Hope?

    Actually less than TPM as the Sith don't return in conjunction with the prophecy and the finding of the Chosen One and Palpatine's manipulations which end up with him as the Supreme Chancellor never mind that somewhat important event of Anakin Skywalker meeting his future wife which leads to the birth of Luke and Leia!

    Actually ANH is so unimportant that it's the only movie the main villain isn't in!

    Obviously the order he is looking for is 5, 1, 2, 3 then 6.

    Let's call it the Sidious Selections order.
     
  8. CaptainSuchandSuch

    CaptainSuchandSuch Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    That's a catchy name.



    In any case, I think one thing that's clear is that the most/least important movies will depend a lot on your frame of reference. If Luke is the most important character to you, then TPM followed by AOTC will seem like the least important movies. If Anakin is the most important character to you, then ANH followed by ESB may seem like the least important. And there are other kinds of frames of reference you could look from as well, like the Sidious one described above.
     
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  9. Darth_Harmon

    Darth_Harmon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Sidious Selections sounds like a wine of the month club that I really want to join.
     
  10. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Given the sheer importance of Shmi Skywalker and Qui-Gon Jinn to what happens in the subsequent films, ignoring TPM seems to be a bit counterproductive. Over everything that happens with Anakin and Obi-Wan, their respective parental figures cast a long shadow.

    The wines should go well with the Cheese of Sheev.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. AprilMayJune

    AprilMayJune Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2015
    [face_rofl]
     
  12. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    I can't think of anything "important" happening in TPM other than discovering Anakin.

    His piloting skills? Could have been done later...and it was in ROTS.

    The fact that he was a slave? Sure they went over that but it wasn't well executed. He seems to be quite a happy go lucky kid for being a "slave".

    Introduction to Padme? "Are you an angel" was just friggin weird. The story would have been better without that.

    I know Star Wars doesn't really do "flashbacks" (although they might in Ep 8) but we should have started with AOTC with Anakin's discovery being a flashback. Without TPM there would be more time to spend on Anakin's turn and more time to spend with Vader in the suit hunting down jedi.
     
  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Qui-Gon is pretty symbolic, Amidala as a ruler makes a nice contrast to the tyrannical Palpatine, and you have the end of an era and the beginning of Palpatine's rise to power.

    Plus you see what is lost by the end of the PT.
     
    Qui-Riv-Brid likes this.
  14. SatineNaberrie

    SatineNaberrie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Despite some disappoints TPM is my favorite of the PT movies.
    I like it better than ROTS.
    I would have liked Anakin older and Jar Jar humor toned down, but I still enjoy the movie.
    I love Naboo. It introduces some interesting characters. Soundtrack is good.
    I like Coruscant. The Senate scene was interesting. We get introduced to the downfall of the Republic and can see why it fell.(Greedy politicians)
    We see how Palpatine comes to power.
    Luke's mother is introduced. I like her characterization in TPM better than Aotc and ROTS.
    We get non-military life in SW. Which is nice and adds to the lore.
     
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  15. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    A Sith Lord was elected Chancellor. How is THAT not important? :confused:Also the chosen one was discovered.
     
  16. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    They sounded positively Transylvanian to me.

    "Jedi, here? Vun for de transport!"

    But then again, I don't go to the movies looking for Asian stereotypes, especially in a SW movie.

    SatineNaberrie, I'm right with you on TPM being my favorite of the PT. It is one of the best-looking SW films period. Top Two or Three for me. I love the rich color palette.
     
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  17. Winshen Cloudleaper

    Winshen Cloudleaper Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Episode 1 is too good to skip. If you don't watch in order, the shock of Episode 3 is ruined.
     
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  18. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    It looks much better in film than digital to me. Everything looks nicely blended together.
     
  19. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    I remembering noticing the image difference in TPM and AOTC in the theater. It was subtle but noticeable. AOTC had a softness to the overall image that didn't seem apparent in Episode One.
     
  20. Sepra

    Sepra Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2016
    Disagree here. First, kids say the darndest things. It also establishes that Anakin is very taken with Padme from the start, and it was probably love at first sight for him, albeit kiddie crush love.
     
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  21. trikadekaphile

    trikadekaphile Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 6, 2015
    I've seen certain, ahem, folks claim that the only SW movie you "really need to see" is ESB, and the others could be tacked on as a prologue or epilogue. This was long before TFA was even thought of, of course, so I'm sure these same people would include TFA (which is only slightly less perfect than ESB) on their list of...two.

    Parents who "won't let their kids see TPM/the prequels" need nothing so much as a smack upside the head and to be told to get the freak over themselves. My mother limited the entertainment I could watch/listen to/read when I was a kid, but it wasn't based on whether she liked it or thought it was good. It was based on whether it was appropriate for my age.

    I'm sure that the aforementioned folks (and their mouthpiece/idol, Simon Pegg) would say, "The prequels are inappropriate for any age because they're so bad, and they're full of racist caricatures!" I call that reaching, but of course they're relying on supposedly "universal" sentiment about the prequels being bad, racist, etc. That's why, when TPM 3-D came out, allegedly respectable publications wasted time and space on articles "warning" parents about "exposing" their kids to TPM, and offering "advice" on how to "shield" them from the worst of it, as well as giving voice to the self-absorbed, neurotic, petty-minded, maturity-deficient parents who proudly (!) declared that they would not let their kids see the prequels, just the "good" SW episodes. And they did so without irony or apparent realization of how bizarre, and pathetic, it was.
     
  22. Mnhay27

    Mnhay27 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I really have to laugh at the way haters attempt to speak for everyone, insisting that "no one liked the prequels". They've now added to this the idea that everyone loves TFA because it's sooooooooo much better.

    The thing is, there's just no support for this nonsense (the prequels made $4.38 billion and films that "no one likes" don't make $4.38 billion - that's a fact).

    Now I happen to think amazon.com is a great place to go to get a feeling for the general consensus because it's a site that literally everyone uses and, therefore, reviews come from what I would suggest could be considered the broadest possible cross-section of the general public. And at amazon, The Phantom Menace currently holds a rating of 3.6 stars out of a possible 5. The Force Awakens (which we all know has somehow recieved far more unanimously positive reviews from critics than any of the previous films) has a rating of 3.7 - putting it only 0.1% higher! Additionally, TFA actually has a higher percentage of negative 1-star reviews (16% compared to TPM's 15%).

    So it seems to me that based on those ratings it is not unreasonable to suggest that, despite the hype, The Force Awakens has been no better recieved by the general public than The Phantom Menace.
     
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  23. Empress Shatterpoint

    Empress Shatterpoint Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013
    To miss out on TPM is to miss out on essential themes and character development in the saga.

    By far I would argue that TPM's most important contribution to the saga is Anakin's portrayal. Let's face it, a lot of people in modern society (which sometimes isn't deserving of the term modern in all its antiquated beliefs) firmly wrongly believe that immoral people, criminals of all kinds, murderers, etc are simply born evil, that they were 'bad seeds' with inevitable paths of wrongdoing placed before them. That kind of thinking is not only ignorant, it is lazy and frankly, sickening. It completely robs individuals of the ability to make choices. It robs life of humanity and of having an existential worthiness. If we were born with no choices, stuck into singular linear paths, we would be better served as computerized robots.

    Let's examine Anakin. He is human, imperfect, and young. As a 9 year-old slave, he shows a great deal of selflessness, courage, hope, a natural inclination to help others and brings with him a positive attitude even though his life is nothing but. He shows a lot more acceptance (influenced by his mother) than he ever does in the rest of the trilogy. He is the last person you'd expect to turn into the evil Darth Vader, and yet, he eventually does. Like every human being in the galaxy, he has that potential. He is no 'born evil Sith Lord'. He surprised a lot of people in TPM (who expected him to be Vader-like already). TPM breaks these stereotypes about evil destinies and being stuck in one direction.

    ROTJ introduced the concept of Redemption. It imparted the knowledge that anyone, however 'far gone', can still take the moral road and become a better person if willing to do so. That the ability to change never leaves anybody. That it's never too late to atone. TPM completes the cycle and informs us that anyone, even the lightest and strongest of individuals, can be steered towards darkness if the right buttons are pushed. that no one is immune to eventually becoming an immoral individual. Just as ROTJ presents the positive possibility of change, TPM presents the negative possibility of change.

    TPM introduces the small seeds of maladjustment that will inhabit future Anakin's personality to the extent that he'll be haunted by it and fall. He is separated from his mother (who very much is a source of light in his life), loses Gui-Gon(the one who believed in him and pushed for his training), highly clashes with the Jedi Council(their interactions will only become more strained) and is left by the end of the movie in an environment which discriminates against attachments/family/romantic bonds, which is something that Anakin has lived with his whole life and will need, as most people do, in their lives. Worst of all, he catches Palpatine' s eye. I will watch your career with great interest indeed. This tells us that Anakin grew up in an environment whose rules clashed with him and that he has been acquainted with Palpy since the very start, ready to whisper dark things in his young trusting ear. A perfect prey. It's easy to imagine how maladjusted he became in AOTC with all this combination of bad factors.

    TPM shows us the start of Palpatine's machinations. The stagnant, corruption-ridden Senate. The cowardly willing-to-invade Federation types. The overall greed. Palpy turning Senators against one another in distrust(He gets Padmé to loose all confidence in Valorum and to push for a vote of non-confidence, all in his favour of course). That political situation is the platform that shows us why/how Palpatine's orchestration of the wars have been possible. It's an essential part of the Republic's fall.

    Without TPM, you'd be left with an already morally grey Anakin who murders the Sand People in Revenge, who spouts some mind-boggling bits of arrogance. It would be very easy for someone to dismiss him as a 'bad seed' destined for evil guy. It would soil the theme of choices, change and redemption in ROTJ. Without TPM, there would be confusion as to why the Separatist movement exists. The whole Clone Wars would seem to come out of nowhere, with random foes. Without TPM, you'd have no idea Palpatine had manipulated things to get to the position of Chancellor, therefore missing out on an essential part of his Puppet-Master playing.

    Without TPM, you would not be aware of the background of Anakin having separated from his mother (I will come back for you, mom) and the tragedy would fall flat. Without TPM, you would not be aware of Anakin and Obi-Wan's shaky start(Him thinking Anakin is dangerous, his Master wanting to take Ani under his wing, etc) which explains their tension in AOTC. Without TPM, you'd wonder why Anakin and the Chancellor are friendly(the whole you saved my planet pretext). Without TPM you'd miss out on Padmé's arc as a young naive yet headstrong Queen who was manipulated by her mentor. You'd wonder at how Padmé and Anakin know each other, why they are friendly and trust each other so much given 10 years not seeing the other. Without TPM, you might wonder what those weird rabbit robots are doing in the arena battle. You'd basically be puzzled by Palpatine, Padmé, Shmi, Anakin and Obi-Wan.

    A grim world it is, without TPM. I'd much rather include TPM in my marathons. The SW go rounder n' richer with TPM.
     
  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Empress Shatterpoint: I wish there was a "love" button for posts like yours. You said all that needs be said. Thank you!!
     
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  25. TuskenTourniquet

    TuskenTourniquet Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2015
    After my last viewing of PM, I will watch, and will introduce the films to people in the machete order. Is it accurate to say NOTHING important happens in PM? Of course not. Does very little important happen in comparison to the other films? Without a doubt. Ultimately, there are not enough important events in this film to justify watching this horribly made, horribly acted, and horribly written film every time I want to watch the Star Wars saga. And it absoltely CANNOT be the first film watched by anyone over the age of 12 coming to Star Wars for the first time. They'll quit on the series immediately.