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Saga The Obi Wan & Anakin Trilogy...what went wrong?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by CoolyFett, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Was just watching ANH, Thinking about the scene where Hans **** is captured on the DeathStar. Anakin senses Obi Wan & goes to tell Tarkin that Obi Wan is in is the station. What could have been going through Vader's mind? Did he really want to kill Obi Wan? Did Obi Wan know Anakin was now a man with cybornectic limbs? Or did he think Anakin died on Mustafar? Were the twins hidden from Palpatine or Anakin?? They seemed like great friends in ep III and things went wrong. Based on what you saw in AOTC, ROTS & ANH who would you say is at fault for how things turned out?
     
  2. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 16, 2005
    Palpatine.
     
  3. Frank T.

    Frank T. Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Anakin made selfish choices.

    Obi-Wan looked past his differences with Anakin until Vader murdered a bunch of children(and even then Obi didn't want to kill him). That no-good ***hole Vader got what he deserved in ROTS.

    Palps may have set up the dominoes but Anakin knocked 'em over.
     
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  4. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I think what went through Anakin's mind was thoughts of revenge, of finishing what began 19 years earlier when Obi-Wan, the coward, left him to die in torment. Deep down, he probably hated himself more than he hated anyone else, but he used that self loathing as fuel for the hatred that he felt towards Obi-Wan. He had turned his former best friend into his nemesis and this was his chance to prove that he was the stronger of the two.
    Yes, I believe that he really wanted to kill Obi-Wan. His hate may have grown cold over the years, but as the saying goes, revenge is a dish best served cold. He would savor this victory for a long time.

    Obi-Wan had decided already on Mustafar, as Anakin lay there on the river bank, that his friend was dead. Deep down, he may have been aware that Padmé was right, that there was still good in him - that Anakin will always be Anakin no matter what happens. To shield himself from the horrible truth of the moment when he walked away from his burning brother, however, he chose to view Vader as a monster who betrayed and murdered his friend. He convinced himself that this was true so that he wouldn't have to deal with the shame that resided somewhere deep within his soul. If he ever allowed it to surface, it would eat him alive.
    That's why Obi-Wan could look at Vader and feel nothing but disdain. This was a Sith and it had to be defeated, for the good of the galaxy.

    With that said, I think it's also likely that Obi-Wan believed that Anakin could be revived - that his soul was still there, trapped inside Vader. In his mind, though, he separated the two; Anakin, his friend and brother - and Vader, the monster that consumed him. I think that was his take on Padmé's dying words.

    The fault for how things turned out doesn't lie with just one person. They all contributed. However, as Frank said, Anakin made the choice to turn. Ultimately, it was up to him. Palpatine deliberately set things up for the turn, though, so his actions were more evil. Anakin was the addict and Palpatine the enabler.





    Ani and Obi - they are creators of realities
    /LM
     
  5. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2003
    Does Padme hold any blame for this? I think she had a role in it to. Did Obi Wan have to leave him on the lava shore like that? In AOTC Anakin seemed very frustrated & kinda rebeling against Obi wan. Palps had nothing to do with that.
     
  6. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012
    Well, in Rise of Darth Vader, in the last chapter of the book, Obi-Wan discovers that Anakin survived Mustafar
     
  7. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2003
    Obi Wan gave up the fight on the Deathstar but why? He didn't seem to be losing the fight, Even on Mustafar Obi Wan was not losing that fight either.People often say the give up move was to save Luke, but they were basically home free. Luke would have been more well trained if both Yoda & Obi Wan trained him.
     
  8. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2003
    How so?
     
  9. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    News surrounding the Subjugation of Kashyyyk revealed Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader was alive, a fact confirmed by Qui-Gon Jinn.
     
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  10. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012
    What Zeta said
     
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  11. FARK2005

    FARK2005 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Sep 3, 2012
    I disagree. At that time Palpatine had spent around 10 years stroking Anakin’s ego and subtly undermining Obi-Wan’s teachings and the Jedi ways. And though I do think Anakin has a strong inclination for pride and arrogance due to his slave past, it certainly doesn’t help having someone constantly feeding and consequently reinforcing those emotions.

    When it comes to Anakin’s fall, I think blame can be placed on all the people directly involved in the event: Palaptine, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padmé, and the members of the Jedi Council. But, the main responsibility lies with Palpatine (primarily) and Anakin.
     
  12. Frank T.

    Frank T. Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 2, 2012
    -What this and it are you refering to?
    -OB1, I imagine, believed Vader was going to die on Mustafar, that there was no way Vader would survive. He lost three limbs and was on fire. Vader had no help.
    -Palps had been stroking Anakin's ego and planting thoughts of doubt about the Jedi during and before AOTC. Sidious was filling Anakin's head with anti-Jedi propaganda right from the start I would think. In the 10 years from TPM to AOTC that would be a lot of doubt and mistrust that could be planted by The Supreme Chancellor.
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Anakin's feelings on seeing Obi-Wan again are elaborated on in Death Star and The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader.
     
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  14. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 25, 2008
    I suspect it would take a long examination of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship to answer this question. I feel that the answer is a lot more complicated. And blame could be placed on both parties, along with Palpatine.
     
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  15. Ferus Olin

    Ferus Olin Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Oct 2, 2012
    Look both made serious mistakes. Anakin was too selfish and failed to see what would happened if he did those actions. However maybe it was Obi-Wan's failure to properly teach Anakin that was what helped Palpatine manipulate Anakin into becoming Vader. It didn't help that Anakin was getting disillusioned with the Jedi Council especially when Obi-Wan was on the council. I'm sure Vader wanted to kill Obi-Wan especially after Mustafar.
     
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  16. Ferus Olin

    Ferus Olin Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Oct 2, 2012
    Obi-Wan was going to lose. Darth Vader was just being very cautious especially after what happened to Mustafar. Eventually Obi-Wan would have lost. Also Luke would of waited for Obi-Wan no matter what so he had to give up his life.
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Anakin's fall came about due to a lot of complicated factors going back to prior to the TPM timeline, however, if we're going to play the blame game--

    Anakin would not have become a Sith Lord if it weren't for Palpatine. Period. He may have continued to have differences with the Jedi and he may have been overwhelmed by fear, but Palpatine drove the final wedge between Anakin and the Jedi, and Palpatine encouraged him to embrace the so-called "larger view" of the Force.

    That isn't to say that Anakin didn't make choices, of course he did, but Palpatine was the one who led him to consider becoming a Sith in the first place--without Palpatine, Anakin would not have even considered that path as an option.
     
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  18. Frank T.

    Frank T. Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Ani may not have become a Sith w/o Palps, but I believe his days as a Jedi were numbered because of his relationship with Padme.
     
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  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    They probably were; in fact, according to the ROTS novelization, he was planning to leave the Order when the war was over.
     
  20. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 16, 2005
    Well, in truth he actually did.

    He joined the Sith Order.

    /ducks. Sorry.
     
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  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    And without Palpatine, he would have never had that idea. ;)
     
  22. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 16, 2005
    Well, of course. But still, he did leave the Jedi Order when the war was over.
     
  23. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Technically, he joined the Sith before the war ended.
     
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  24. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 16, 2005
    Oh, technicalities...:D
     
  25. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2003
    No way would Han have tried to rescue Obiwan, they seemed to really want to get out of there in a hurry. Obi Wan did say he was getting too old. Anakin made a comment saying LEscape is not his plan I must face him"