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Saga The Obi Wan & Anakin Trilogy...what went wrong?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by CoolyFett, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    If anything being a podracing driver is harder. You're travelling at hundreds of miles per hour through a suicidally dangerous obstacle course. Not sure how it's a downplay at all-it is flying, just instead of open sky you're flying through canyons :p
     
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  2. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Lampshaded in the film itself:

    "You're a pilot?"
    "All my life!"
     
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  3. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    What went wrong? Anakin and Obi-Wan hardly interacted in TPM, were at odds for all of AOTC and in the time of ROTS had a 1/4 or maybe a 1/3 of the movie as good friends and then everything went down the drain shortly thereafter. No real time to get the friendship Old Ben hinted at in ANH or at least in my eyes they didn't.
     
  4. ObiAlKenobi

    ObiAlKenobi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2012
    The entire saga could have started with AOTC. Just needed some dialogue to fill in some gaps (and get rid of some of that corny love talk lol).

    There did not seem to be a real friendship between them. I saw glimpses of it in Sith, but not much. It would have been better to show Anakin as more obedient, noble, loyal, friendly, etc. (and closer to Obi-Wan). It would have made his fall even more tragic. I do not blame the actors. They both did a great job. I blame the script.
     
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  5. Fat_Rancor_Keeper

    Fat_Rancor_Keeper Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2010
    The PT has it's issues, but for now I just want to discuss the Anakin Obi-Wan dynamic....

    I actually credit GL for trying to give us something different with TPM. Many of us likely envisioned the entire PT as an extended version of the timeline around AOTC / ROTS and a little afterward. Meaning Vader in action hunting jedi to close out the saga.

    That said, just because GL went a different and less predictable route, doesn't mean doing so necessarily worked. (speaking for myself only)

    Looking back, if he insisted on going with child Anakin and that whole story then perhaps it would have functioned better if Anankin was a little older and Obi-Wan filled in and did everything Qui-Gon did. As much as I enjoy Qui-Gon I think the story would have worked better if Obi-Wan took his place as I believe it was originally scripted.

    To me, much of the cool Obi-Wan/Anakin adventures we see fleshed out in TCW animated series is probably more what fans wanted to see tried in the PT. The series is closer in spirit to the OT in many ways despite being firmly rooted in the PT era. Best of all, as I mentioned we SEE the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin, the highs and lows and thus Anakin's ultimate fall resonates more. But going by the movies alone, all we have is child Anakin and Obi-Wan as strangers, then FF to them barely being able to tolerate each other, then FF to them quickly going from pals to sworn enemies. It's jarring.
     
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  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The whole Qui-Gon finding Anakin thing doesn't mesh with the OT for me. Someone else finding Anakin and Obi-Wan not liking him at first and becoming his master because of Qui-Gon's dying wish? No just no. Qui-Gon should have a role but different from what we got.
    Plus the changes between their relationship is way too jarring. I've read the EU so things aren't as jarring but I don't envy people who just watch the movies.
     
  7. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    The OT never said Obi-Wan found Anakin.
     
  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Maybe not but it implied that to me."When I first met him he was a great pilot." I thought that he did something first-hand while Obi-Wan was watching and then they met or something.
     
  9. kenobifan1999

    kenobifan1999 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    obiwan is anything but a coward...hes the bravest hero in the series. anakin was the coward
     
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  10. ObiAlKenobi

    ObiAlKenobi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2012
    Yes, I've been saying this for years as well.

    An older Anakin (perhaps 14 or so, then he could have more understanding of events around him) found by Obi-Wan would have made everything more dramatic. We could have been spared some of the awful dialogue and yippees too ;)
     
  11. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    I believe this is all a matter of opinion. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan, as far as I'm concerned, had their flaws and made some major mistakes.
     
  12. King Terak

    King Terak Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Both were considered "Great War heroes". As for Anakin being a coward, I will disagree as he was dubbed, "The Hero with no fear".
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Anakin was very, very afraid, which ended up being his fatal flaw. But I wouldn't call either him or Obi-Wan "cowards." They had courage in the face of obstacles that would freak out the average person, i.e., battle.
     
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  14. King Terak

    King Terak Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Point taken, he was afraid of failing to save people, but he had no concern for himself.
     
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  15. darthjulian777

    darthjulian777 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Basically I think they just began deviating...It's very easy to see Anakin's descent into darkness. He was propelled by this fear of losing his loved one, and because of this he came to embrace Palpatine. He initially does what is right by going to Mace and telling him that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. As he sits there contemplating the future however he realizes that his fear of loss outweighs what he's been trained to do. He goes to Palpatines office and struggles with it once more. He knows it's wrong to kill Palpatine, yet at the same time he only wants him alive to learn his powers. He realizes the only way to do this is the murder of Mace. From this point onward he has pledged his allegiance to Palpatine and to prove his worth he does exactly as Palpatine asks.

    The problem with this is that Obi-Wan can't follow him down this path. Obi-Wan has dedicated himself to something more than mere passion. There was a point where Obi-Wan was taken by the same passion that propels Anakin, his love of Siri Tachi, but he had already lost her and it became something more. He loved Anakin as a brother and I think what happens is that he truly is saddened and disappointed by Anakin's betrayal and fall to the dark side. Unlike Anakin though he doesn't give into his passions and instead does what is right, and stands against Anakin and he falls to the darkness. I think this leaves him saddened and alone for the rest of his life, only being renewed by the knowledge that Luke, his brother's son, grows up to be a good Jedi, and a better man. He is truly redeemed by the fact that Anakin once again turns back to light side of the force, and in the end they stand there next to each other rejoicing over this.
     
  16. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    T

    That is one of the major reasons why I love the PT so much. The situation with Qui-Gon for both Anakin and Obi-Wan made their relationship more complex and interesting to me. I'm not interested in everyone immediately loving everyone else or being ideal. And Obi-Wan NEVER said that he was the one who had first discover Anakin. What happened in TPM only confirmed this.
     
  17. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    I didn't say that Obi-Wan is a coward. If you read my post again, you might understand who, according to my belief, views him as a coward...





    "You should not have come back"
    /LM
     
  18. kenobifan1999

    kenobifan1999 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    anakin is a coward. he betrayed windu, obi wan, and the entire jedi order for his own selfish reason. he even murdered innocent kids... then after he failed he continued to do sidious' dirty work for over 20 years.... IMO hes a coward
     
  19. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008
    For me, what made Anakin a coward was that he allowed others to dictate what path he would follow. The only two times he did not do this was his decision to follow Qui-Gon to Coruscant in order to become a Jedi and his decision to betray the Jedi in order to recruit Palpatine's help in saving Padme, whom he believed was destined to die.

    Other than that, Anakin spent his life either as a slave on Tatooine, trying to live up to Obi-Wan's ideals on what a Jedi should be, trying to maintain Padme's love or adhere to her wishes, or acting as Palpatine's apprentice. He never really learned to be himself.


    As for Obi-Wan . . . perhaps he was more successful. But I feel that his love for the Jedi Order may have compromised him on several occasions. I feel the same about other Jedi characters such as Yoda and Mace.
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011

    You're entitled to think Anakin is a coward and I don't really care, but you might want to check your reasoning there, what you described sounds more like self-centeredness. Cowardice would be joining Palpatine because he was afraid of what Palpatine would do to him otherwise, similar to the reasons Peter Pettigrew joined Voldemort in Harry Potter.

    Anakin joined Palpatine because he wanted to. Because he cared more about keeping Padme alive than about his friends or the Order itself. That doesn't really fit the definition of cowardice. He wasn't afraid of Palpatine at that point.
     
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  21. kenobifan1999

    kenobifan1999 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    killing little kids because your afraid of losing a loved one is kinda a cowardice thing to do. either way. i dont really think anakin is a coward, just if someone says obiwan is a coward and anakin is not... then i gotta call anakin out as a coward because obiwan was a lot braver than anakin was
     
  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Ah. So it's the "He said it first!" argument. OK.
     
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  23. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2003
     
  24. kenobifan1999

    kenobifan1999 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    well if obiwan is going to be branded a coward... then anakin is far worse of a coward! i believe neither one of them are cowards but i will defend my obiwan to death
     
  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    As I said--the "he said it first!" argument. Are we in third grade?