ST ST Complimentary Discussion Thread

I love how both Luke and Snoke comment on Ben being a frightened boy, but with vastly different contexts.

 

The delivery of that line was great. Great voice acting.

 

Merged three threads into one, and updated the thread title.

 

I love at the end that you can see Poe and Finn have both developed from where they started the film and they both work together to get out of the Mine and follow the Crystal Critters. Poe's learned his lessons and Finn has found a cause to believe in beyond an individual. When Poe says, "Come on. Follow me" with confidence it's a turning point in the saga. Poe is now more ready to be one of the senior leaders heading into IX. He always had the charm and skill that made his subordinates look up to him and be willing to follow him into mutiny or death but he needed to learn the value of retreating and regrouping and he leads in that regard not once but twice at the end with Finn's help.

Everyone remaining looks back at Leia and she agrees. "What are you looking at me for? Follow the man."

It's the perfect resolution to their two archs heading into IX. As is Poe seeing first hand just how special and integral Rey is going to be to them winning this war.

 

im going to add a couple of things direction wise to my list, by comparing it to another blockbuster that I truly hated and that is guardians of the galaxy 2. The first comparison is the climax, rather you hated the crait battle with force projection luke or loved it, the last 20 minutes or so are shot incredibly well and in frame and you can see everything that is happening without it getting dull or a cgi crapfest. I hated the last battle in gotg2 it was a huge cgi crapfrest that was so loud and obnoxious that it actually gave me a headache and had to close my eyes for a couple of seconds. too much going on with no quiet moments. that is something I thought TLJ handled really well in all the actions scenes, there were small quiet moments built in.

number 2 is character arcs. once again both movies have a lot of old and new characters that had to be serviced and tlj I think has a lot more than gotg2. we have luke,leia, finn, poe, holdo, kylo, rose, rey, snoke, hux, bb8, dj, and phasma as mains and secondary characters not to mention c3p0, r2d2, chewie as well who all at least got one moment to shine in tlj. Gotg2 had starlord, rocket, groot, drax, gamora, nebula, ego, yondu and mantis as true leads and secondary characters with a couple of others bringing up the rear like sly's character and the gold people sorry dont remeber their names. both movies had incredibly hard task to try and juggle this many characters especially in the star wars universe bc some of these characters are decades famous like luke, leia, chewey etc... but I thought Rian did a masteful job of at least giving each some kind of arc or closure. In gotg2 I thought the only real arcs were starlord, yondu, ego plot line and gamora and nebula. I felt like drax was in the movie bc he had to be there his whole arc was to make fun of mantis and that was it. I feel like they wrote jokes around rocket and at the last second came up with his abandonment fears. porgs are a cash grab no doubt but at least they were not on screen much, baby groot is a true cash grab. I just dont feel like Rian gets enough credit for moving 90 percent of his characters forward, he is not flawless, probably should have just left phasma in the trash compactor for instance but to me it was still a masterful job.

 

A multi-layered decision, and another reason for me to keep TFA at #1. Kudos to JJ and RJ!

 

Wow, I did not notice that. She did not sell BB-8 because she remembered what her parents did to her.

TFA basically told us that Rey was sold by her parents, and we didn't notice/believed.

 

Exactly. Before I thought it was just that she had started to relate to him (which is still nice), but now it's both.

 

exactly I don't think johnson intended that connection but that is what I like to call a happy coincidence which you can still use to deepen the lore and mythology

 

The whole Leia scene. The missiles coming toward the bridge was such a tragic shot.

 

You never know.

He said he did a pros and cons list of every scenario. He probably also factored in the that Rey in her forceback scene is wearing the clothes of a peasant at a young age as well. So many missed that initially and saw that as her parents travelling down to drop her off there and leaving. I always saw that sign and her tattered peasant clothes there as relative confirmation that she'd been there prior to that moment in time.

 

it's possible I just don't think likely but many great movies are filled with happy coincidence like the fact that in the new Terminator movie that they are making, because of time travel they can be like movies three through five never happened LOL, as they bring back Linda Hamilton

 

I am looking forward for his commentary track, when it is released on the Special Edition Bluray (to make us pay double, you know )

 

I just saw it again yesterday, and I can say my favorite section of the movie is the night on Ach-to. We get Luke's nighttime visit to the temple to contact Leia (revealing that Rey has successfully brought him back). Then the shirtless ForceTime, which really illustrates how Rey and Kylo are opposites on a deep psychological level, with Kylo fleeing the same thing Rey has been desperately searching for. Then we get the cave scene, the ultimate shattering of the denial that has been Rey's main hurdle for the first two movies. This is followed by the Jedi hut hand-holding scene, a beautiful and dangerous moment of connection for two very lost and alone young people. This triggers Luke's freakout and fight with Rey, which is great and I wish it was longer, culminating in Rey's decision to trust her vision, and Luke's near relapse into despair. Fortunately Luke has opened himself back to the Force, and we get the awesome Yoda scene (just hearing Yoda's theme in this scene is enough to get me emotional) where he is able to bring Luke back from the edge and also confirm (to the delight of us Rey fans) that Rey absolutely is that new new hope that we need to put all our chips on.

I can't say enough about this part of the movie. For me this part of the story plus the throne room scene is the most powerful emotional arc in any Star Wars movie by a really wide margin.

 

I’ve written enough about what I disliked about the film, now I’m going to list the things I enjoyed:

-The showdown in Snoke’s throne room is one of the best scenes in the entire series.
-Kylo Ren essentially becomes the main character.
-The Dreadnought scene.
-The Force face time scenes between Ben and Rey.
-Ben and Leia sensing each other through the force.

 

My favorite scenes were:
The force Skype sessions between Rey and Ben. I loved their dynamic.
Snoke’s death including Rey and Kylo fighting together and against eachother.
Holdo's sacrifice. It was visually amazing.
Luke kicking Kylo's butt without even touching him.

 

I kinda like how Snoke being deceived by Kylo Ren’s true intentions better reinforces in a way why Luke could only find out the truth when reading his mind when he did. Ben Solo has become very good at hiding his intentions beyond his exterior. He also learned to better hide people from sensing them or how they would interpret sensing him.

Similarly, I like the knowledge of knowing that the KoR are now likely Luke’s other turned students and the idea that some of the stuff Ben Solo was trying to plant in Rey’s head he’d possibly done to those other students earlier.

 

I like to believe snoke taught kylo some of his mind tricks which pupil than learned to use against master.

 

Those would have to be very powerful mind tricks. I thought they could only work on the weak minded?

 

Not if it was 5 seconds or less used on somebody gloating

 

Some of my favorite quotes (which may end up being paraphrased since I’m going off memory as I write this):

Happy Beeps, Buddy. Happy Beeps.

Why are YOU here Rey from nowhere?

If you see Finn before I do tell him...

(Chewie speaks)

Yeah. Tell him that.

DJ: Guys, I wanna keep helping. But no something, n-n-no doing.

DJ: Good Guys? Bad guys? Made up words.

DJ: Blip bloppity bloop, and slip right through.

Well done, my good and faithful apprentice. My faith in you is restored.

Haysian smelt. Best conductor. And you're welcome.

LEIA: There are things that you cannot solve by jumping in an X-wing and blowing something up! I need you to learn that.

POE: There were heroes on that mission.

LEIA: Dead heroes. No leaders.

(Later)
POE: Permission to jump into an X-Wing and blow something up?

LEIA: Permission granted.

3PO: Admiral Holdo was looking for you.

POE: Yeah, we spoke.

FINN: I know where the nearest escape pods are.

ROSE: Course you do.

SNOKE: Young Rey. Welcome!

PHASMA: FN-2187, so good to have you back.

LEIA: Too many losses. I can’t take any more.

HOLDO: Sure you can. You taught me how.

BOTH: May the For—

(Both smile at each other)

LEIA: No, you go on. I’ve said it enough.

HOLDO: May the Force be with you. Always.

SNOKE: You wonder why I keep a rabid cur in such a place of power? A cur's weakness, properly manipulated, can be a sharp tool.

SNOKE: Take that ridiculous thing off!

SNOKE: Alas... you’re no Vader. You’re just a child in a mask.

SNOKE: You Have too much of your father’s heart in you young Solo.

SNOKE: Come closer, Child. Closer... So much strength. Darkness Rises. And Light to meet it.

REY: You underestimate Skywalker, and Ben Solo, and me. It will be your downfall.


SNOKE: Oh...Have you seen something? A weakness in my apprentice? Is that why you came?

(LAUGHS)

SNOKE: Young fool. It was I who bridged your minds. I stoked Ren's conflicted soul.I knew he was not strong enough to hide it from you. And you were not wise enough to resist the bait.

And now, you will give me Skywalker.

(REY BREATHING HEAVILY)

Then I will kill you with the cruelest stroke.

REY: No.

SNOKE: Yes...

Give me... everything.

CAPTAIN: Godspeed, Rebels!

SNOKE: Suchhh Spunk!

For you, all is lost

Ooh. And still that fiery spit of hope. You have the spirit of a true Jedi! And because of that... you must die.

My worthy apprentice, son of darkness, heir apparent to Lord Vader. Where there was conflict, I now sense resolve. Where there was weakness, strength. Complete your training, and fulfill your destiny.

Pathetic child. I cannot be betrayed. I cannot be beaten. I see his mind. I see his every intent.

DJ: T-T-Take it easy, Big F. They blow you up today, you blow them up tomorrow.

It’s just business.

REN: t's time to let old things die. Snoke, Skywalker. The Sith, the Jedi, the Rebels... Let it all die.

Rey. I want you to join me. We can rule together and bring a new order to the galaxy.

REY: Don't do this, Ben. Please don't go this way.

REN: No. You’re still holding on. Let go of the past! Let go!

You wanna know the truth about your parents? Or have you always known? And you've just hidden it away. You know the truth. Say it. Say it.

REY: They were nobody.

REN: They were filthy junk traders who sold you off for drinking money.

(SOBS)

They're dead in a paupers' grave in the Jakku desert. You have no place in this story.
You come from nothing. You're nothing. But not to me. Join me.

REN: Join Me... please.

PHASMA: You were always Scum.

FINN: Rebel scum.

REN: Get all our forces down to that Resistance base. Let's finish this.

HUX: Finish this? Who do you think you're talking to?! You presume to command my army?! Our Supreme Leader is dead! We have no ruler!

(CHOKING)

The Supreme Leader is dead...?

HUX: Long...live... the Supreme Leader.

POE: Rose, you’re not dead!

POE (Like a man talking to his dog happily). I'm so happy to see you! How's my droid?

FINN: A battering ram cannon.

POE: A what now?

Miniaturized Death Star tech. It'll crack that door open like an egg.

POE: All right, listen up. I don't like these rust buckets and I don't like our odds, but...

(Piece of metal falls off)

What the hell?

REN: Blow that piece of junk out of the sky!

FINN: Whoo! They hate that ship!

ROSE: I saved you, dummy. That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love.

REN: I want every gun we have fired on that man!

Do it.

More!

More!

HUX: That's enough.

(SHOUTING) That's enough!

(GUNS DEACTIVATING)

HUX: Do you think you got him?

(After Ren Force pushes Hux)

SOLDIER: Right away, Sir.

LUKE: You think what? I'm gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order?

LUKE: Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong. The war is just beginning. The Rebellion is reborn today. And I will not be the Last Jedi.

LUKE: No one’s ever really gone.


LUKE: No. Strike me down in anger and I’ll always be with you, Ben. Just like your father.

LUKE: See ya around, Kid.

REY (Holding the broken saber after the books are shown on the Falcon): How can we rebuild from this?

LEIA: We have everything we need.

Basically all of the Yoda stuff is gold too.


So many good lines.

 

Intentional or not, this works really well. It can be interpreted that Rey’s family was poor and desperate to survive, so they did the unthinkable. Substitute BB-8 with Rey and that’s what happened. Only Rey couldn’t bring herself to abandon the droid.

Great point. Ben is a deeply troubled young man but he can fool people when it matters most. He didn’t just fool Snoke, he also surprised Rey. He didn’t surrender, he doubled down. By the time Luke found out the full truth inside the tent, he was left for dead.

 

So mods - am I allowed to post opposing viewpoints in this thread like what's allowed in the TLJ complaints thread? Just want to be sure before I reply.

 

It's certainly not my place to say one way or the other, but i would please ask that you not. This is the one thread I come into to share my appreciation and enjoyment of the film without having to to counter criticism or any analytical discourse, be they valid or invalid. There are tons of other threads for that.

Please leave this to simply be for those who appreciate the film/parts of the film/scenes, etc... and just want to celebrate it.