Full Series The *Official* Ahsoka in The Clone Wars thread (general discussion)

Wow. I guess some people can argue that, huh? .

Anyone recall this moment of dialogue from the Mon Cal arc?

Anakin:"Good job 'protecting' the prince."
Ahsoka:"It's all part of the plan, Master."
Anakin:"I was hoping you'd say that. Anything I can do?"
Ahsoka:"Unfortunately this time, it's out of our hands."

Mature. Calm. No snarky comebacks to Anakin's insult. A sense of quiet resignation. She's done what she could, and she's now waiting to see the results.

There's more to that sort of change than a lower voice, my friend.

Not really.

I made the mistake of posting this in the "Slaves of the Republic" thread, but it makes more sense here, so...

 

Importance isn't a strawman. The impact and influence that Obi-Wan had on Anakin is absolutely so much more than Ahsoka, and directly correlates to how willing he is to kill them.

Would it be painful for Darth Vader to kill Ahsoka? Probably. But he would do it. Would he hesitate? Maybe. But Anakin's bond to both Obi-Wan and Padme were much stronger than they were to Ahsoka. I'm not saying he does not care for Ahsoka, and I'm also not saying that it couldn't happen, but in my mind there would be no conflict at the very end for Vader. He willingly slaughtered the entire Jedi Order, in the process murdering children, and went after his own former Master, a man who was his brother, and choked his wife to death. To acknowledge and hide Ahsoka would bring back parts of Anakin, which is something post ROTS pre ANH is trying to bury.

If they would do that, it would lessen the impact of Vader killing the Jedi.

 

No, but to rebut the claim that "Ahsoka is more important than Obi-Wan" when no such claim has been made, is a classic strawman.

Which could be exactly what they want to do. As I said before, I don't think it will happen or should happen, but it's a distinct possibility.

More likely Vader will kill Ahsoka in the end, but it will be post-ROTS and post-TCW. That makes the most sense for both the story and the franchise.

 

I'm sorry, I've been arguing about the importance of Obi-Wan to Anakin vs. the importance of Ahsoka to Anakin the whole time. If I've changed my language to indicate 'bonds' so that I could continue the discussion with you, then I'm sorry if you've misunderstood. It's not a strawman if I've been arguing the importance to this character the whole time.



Essentially, I read it as "Ahsoka is the one person Anakin is unable to kill because of their strong bond with one another". A bond is a measure of importance from one person to another, so I don't really think that arguing the importance of one person to another is that much of a far cry from the original argument. I of course brought up the Obi-Wan comparison, but I was using that as an example of how ridiculous I thought the idea was. A bond, in war time or not, does not form and stick in a three year time, especially when in comparison to a bond that happened between a father and son figure, then a brother and brother figure. It is fully indicated in ROTS that Obi-Wan and Anakin, though they've been through a lot, have a brotherly bond. One that's grown and evolved throughout of the years.

It's certainly possible. I don't like it, but dems the breaks.

Ahsoka needs to die before ROTS for it to work for me.

 

You know, not knocking the opinions of others but I've never been able to understand why people think the only way is for Ahsoka to die before ROTS or that that is the only satisfying end for Ahsoka for them. To be honest, I've never been Ahsoka's biggest fan myself and there are times I've wanted to see her head get bashed in. But creatively there are alot of ways the show can go with Ahsoka at the end of TCW that would remove her from ROTS and from Anakin's thoughts enough for her not being mentioned in ROTS to make sense. Also for the sadistic. There are fates far worse than death or getting shot in the back by a clone trooper. In some ways surviving the series and ROTS time frame would be more horrible.

 

Let me correct that; she can't be Anakin's padawan by Episode III.

 

I understood your point, and forgive me if I seemed too harsh. My argument was that a bond (or relationship) between two people is simply too complex to be rated by one measure (as in, "importance"). In my mind, Anakin would see Obi-Wan and Ahsoka very differently. His Master, he respects, occasionally resents, but trusts like a close friend and brother. Ahsoka is more of a little sister, someone Anakin has affection for, someone Anakin fears for not unlike his fear for Padme or his mother. Just my POV.

With that, I think we all agree. I used to hold that she could simply be absent for the timeframe of ROTS, but that just seems to forced. Not to mention the fact that Palpatine never mentions her, even though he refers to "you old Master, Obi-Wan Kenobi."

Ahsoka and Anakin will most likely have a falling out, resulting in either reassignment or Ahsoka leaving the Jedi Order (more likely the former). That leaves Anakin bitter and no longer caring about Ahsoka, darkens his character (without breaking him like her death would), and erodes the number of people close to Anakin by the time of ROTS.

For TCW's purposes, Ahsoka is their main original character. Her story won't end before TCW's story ends. And for Lucasfilm and the SW franchise, leaving her alive after TCW opens the door to a whole new set of EU products, or even future film/TV projects.

I've wondered the same. Obviously the viewers that dislike Ahsoka's character see her death as a net positive, and take it for granted. But a lot of regular reviewers (including those that write the TFN reviews) seem to assume that Ahsoka is dead by the time of ROTS. As you've pointed out, there's no reason to assume that.

In fact it seems a crude way to reconcile a character's absence by saying, "He/She's dead."

The question I always want to ask those people is who do they think the main characters will be when the show ends, if Ahsoka (and even Rex) have to die before ROTS? A CGI remake of ROTS? New camera angles? Will Aayla Secura become the show's main character?

 

You are forgiven. And if you can forgive me for being too reactionary, I think we'll be right as rain!

I see your point, and respect your POV. I could certainly see it go down that way, it's just not something I'd particularly like to see.

I've always been a proponent of Ahsoka leaving Anakin when she sees him start to go down the dark path. I really hope she gets paired off with Plo Koon, because she actually treats him like a Master.

 

Welcome to the club.

 

Its not my favorite ending really. But that's the club I'm part of right now.

 

I used to think the more likely outcome was her being passed off onto another Master, but the more into the series I get the more I suspect she will be Knighted at some point still within the series. Her level of competence in battle and as a Force-user is getting pretty higher and higher with each passing season. She still has the occasional snarky line but there's no question she's matured a lot since the TCW film and S1.

 

As much as I dont like the idea of Anakin having a Padawan she really is one of the best parts of the show as far as a character. Plus, we don't know her fate.

 

I feel the same way. I wish they hadn't assigned her to Anakin, but to be honest, if it weren't for Ahsoka and Rex I don't think I would watch the show regularly. Ahsoka (and Rex) are blank slates, with a huge amount of potential and uncertain fates. That makes them interesting and (usually) enjoyable to watch.

Actually, I've gone back and forth on that issue. For a long time I ruled out her becoming a Knight because of her young age - she'll be 16 - 17 at the most - by the time of ROTS. That just seems too young for her to be Knighted.

After the S3 finale, and even the first half of S4, Ahsoka seems to be maturing and growing more capable exponentially. I could actually see that as a sign that she's going to be Knighted early. It would still be unusual, but it could happen.

But I don't think she'll be Knighted under Anakin's tutelage. That's too high an honor, and too great an accomplishment, to go unmentioned in ROTS. Successfully training a Padawan is a big deal, and I think Anakin would have brought it up when he was denied the rank of Master.

I actually think she might be Knighted post-Order 66. One of my pet endings is Ahsoka meeting with Yoda and/or Obi-Wan on Alderaan, and being Knighted at the very end of the series. It would give her a perfect springboard into any post-TCW projects Lucas might think up.

 

I can see her being knighted as well. If they do that I can see Ahsoka inheriting Rex and a few key members of the 501st and them being combined with the Wolfepack.

I knows it getting on ya'll's nerves. I've become more and more obsessed with Wolfpack lately and where they fall into the scheme of TCW. I may be completely over estimating Wolffe's importants. But ever since watching ROTS on Spike like two weeks ago and realizing Wolfpack was not in ROTS I've found their existence fascinating. That they are tied to Plo Koon who is an important character in Ahsoka's life and then thinking back to Ashley Eckstein saying maybe Wolfpack might save Ahsoka. She doesn't know that and its far out there. But maybe she has a little more insight than us. The details are just a little backward. Then thinking back on episodes like "Rising Malevolence","R2 Come Home", and the beginning of the Padawan duology. Ashoka even lead a tangent group of them in the later instead of a group of 501st members. It had to be that way though. I can't imagine Ahsoka dissapearing and that not getting noticed by Rex or other 501st clones. I'm starting to think I need to make a Wolfpack thread with how often I talk about them suddenly but there is hardly any material on them anyways.

 

The other thing about Wolfpack - it seems that "Mercy Mission" went out of its way to showcase the tough, no-nonsense, perfect loyalty of Wolffe and those boys. The droids stole the show, but I can't help but wonder if TCW is trying to drum up Wolfpack as the main antagonists for when Order 66 comes around.

And like you said, Ahsoka is linked to Wolfpack both by association with Plo Koon, and she's been paired with them on several occasions during the show.

Hey, Wolfpack is probably coming back with the Death Watch/Luxoka episode/s. Maybe we will have enough content to speculate further. It could be interesting if Wolffe or his men express frustration or are irritated with Ahsoka getting herself in trouble...

 

I'm one of those people who really loves Ahsoka as a character (despite her obvious flaws), but I'd just like to see her die in the very end, purely for dramatic impact.

 

Well I would like something(maybe she flees into hiding or dies) to happen to her character at the end of the show for closure.

Of course they could always bring back her character for the live action show.

But yeah, it would be fitting for this show to complete her arc.

 

In a way Wolfpack was the antagonists of "Mercy Mission". Orphnee wasn't really evil from the certain point of view, Wolffe refused to listen and refused to do more than what his mission mandated for the Aleena. He was one of the hurtles the droids had to get past.


I think Wolfpack is going to come in at the end of the current slave arc from what I've heard about the comic. But we could very well see them again in the Luxoka episode. It would be interesting to see Wolffe and his men get frustrated with her getting into trouble. This time it wouldn't be directly there fault but you have to imagine that Boost and Sinker took a verbal beating from Anakin at some point. From an out of universe perspective the 501st couldn't have been with Ahsoka in "Padawan Lost". If Rex himself were there he usually sticks to the Jedi like glue. Even if ordered to go ahead he would of eventually stopped and been like - "Hey, wait a minute." - and they all kinda know the trouble they'd get into if they lost her. They've been there done that. Its interesting how different the two groups of clones are since Sinker and Boost apparently never looked back and didn't care. They didn't sound like they cared much when Anakin asked where Ahsoka was.

I respect your opinion and I'm cool with Ahsoka dying in the series. But I've always viewed death as the easy way to get dramatic impact. Even within the confines of a kids show. Its far more tragic to have only your life, nothing else going for you, and to have to live with all the mental scars then to get shot in the back by Wolffe or die in a 5 minute shoehorned duel with Vader at the end of the series IMO.

From a story telling POV that would be great. But OOU I think the character is worth to much gold and they won't have the guts to do it.

 

Excellent point. In "Duel of the Droids" Rex tries to get in touch with Ahsoka and is clearly alarmed that she intends to run off to distract Grievous. He also comes to Ahsoka and Anakin's rescue when they're pinned down in LaPR. Whereas the Wolfpack guys are apparently oblivious to the fact that Ahsoka is missing and just go on with the mission. Maybe Anakin chewed them out while Rex and the 501st were out looking for her.

Ahsoka post-ROTS would be horribly scarred, emotionally. I think she'd blame herself (at least in part) for Anakin's fall, and that would be a huge load on her. She was so close to him for at least a while, and - in her mind - there must have been something she could do to have stopped everything. She also seems to be close to the younglings and I can't imagine how traumatic it would be to know the kids you used to play with between missions have been slaughtered by your former mentor and friend.

Ahsoka post-ROTS would be a very different character, I think. I'd love to see her in a live action series, even if she eventually dies in such a show. I think a LA show starring Ahsoka (even as a supporting character) would have a *huge* amount of buzz among the TCW viewership.

 

I can only imagine that if Ahsoka dies she'll get a death where she gets the snot beat out of her and keeps getting up until she's accomplished her mission before going down. If Ahsoka survives she's going to have an incredibly tough journey ahead of her. Far tougher than any beating she'll get on screen in the show. If I were a sadist and hated this character I'd be going with option B actually.

 

nevermind, i just read through the thread and see everyone else came to the same conclusion.

 

You don't have to be a sadist or hate her if you want to see 'a tough journey'- I do want to see her having a tough journey, but she is a hero- those are fictional beings that go through incredibly tough journeys without losing their mental health.... like Luke for example or Leia- both go through terrible, scarring experiences and go on like nothing....

 

I'd argue Luke was very affected by both Obi-Wan's death, the realization of Vader's identity and Vader's death. Leia was unfortunately brushed over when it came to Alderaan.

Not that I think Ahsoka would lose her mental health, but I think that she'd be a very different person after surviving the rise of the Empire.

 

Yeah and that is not bad at all

 

No, that'd be awesome character development.