Discussion in 'Live Action, Clone Wars & Classics' started by G-FETT, Feb 15, 2008.
Clearly you haven't seen THE CHART.
Hate that chart. That kind of exaggeration isn't even funny.
I hate Tropes, I'm just going by common knowledge. Denying that Ahsoka is a Mary Sue is pointless effort.
Not everyone defines Mary Sue the same way, so asserting that everyone should agree that a certain character is(n't) a Mary Sue seems a pointless effort to me. Also, a Mary Sue is a trope, the statement that you hate tropes but we all should go along with your definition of a particular trope seems inconsistent to me.
Heh, sorry. I sometimes take a little too much enjoyment out of poking fun at those people who use the mary sue term as a blanket statement for characters they don't like.
Ahsoka has pretty blatant flaws so she's not a sue
Methinks if there ever was a sue on the show it would be anakin but since he gets karma hard later in life I think its ignored.
@InherentConflict: Well understood; I've just seen that chart sprung out by "Ahsoka's not a Mary Sue" supporters more times than I've cared for.
It's not as though there have never been posters calling her that without an explanation, and often when there's none given it's because there's none to give.
I told you what I think makes her a Sue. But if don't see her as a Sue, then that's fine. I just hate Ahsoka, so Savagely I hope Grievous tortures her to death, I despise her so much.
Sounds like another case of calling a female character one doesn't like a Mary Sue. If Ahsoka is then she would be more of a Canon Sue. =b
I sense Anger in you. Release it!
Fair enough. The easiest of your points to debunk is that she never gets in trouble. Just watch Holocron Heist and Lightsaber Lost. Not that there aren't definitions of Mary Sue that Ahsoka fits, there certainly are, but I take issue with much of your list on a factual basis.
And when she gets in trouble, she gets repositioned to be in a position to again further the plot/save the day. <ducks>
That happens in Storm Over Ryloth which is why I didn't include it in the list, but not Holocron Heist or Lightsaber Lost. Unless one were to count her finally finding her own lightsaber with help from a Jedi Master as somehow saving the day...
She "unmasked" Jocasta Nu's impersonator, didn't she?
She didn't do anything special, in fact, there were a couple instances where the changeling made it fairly obvious they weren't who they were posing as and she didn't pick up on it. She only figured it out after being slammed in the face with it when the changeling was speaking with Cad Bane and she overheard. And by then, it was too late, the Holocron was stolen. So yes, she played a role in things not being as bad as they could possibly have been, but still came far from saving the day.
This is actually a good example of her not fitting the generic, cliched Mary Sue definition. A generic, cliched Mary Sue would have spotted the changeling at the first subtle hint, and then single-handedly stopped the theft plot. But that's not at all what happened.
Don't see how not suspecting it sooner means anything. She's not as Sueish as she could've been?
I don't see how what she did in that episode makes her a Sue at all. She overheard a conversation?
That's the type of thing I think people mean when they say Ahsoka gets accused of being a Mary Sue for things that if another character did wouldn't receive a second thought.
If ^ is directed at me, I was a bit tongue in cheek. For the record, Ahsoka has many traits of a Sue. Whether sufficient in number or not to so qualify her as such is up to individual interpretation. I think, personally, she has walked a tightrope without tipping over into the no-doubt-about-it Sue-ness.
There are certainly definitions of Mary Sue that Ahsoka fits, I have said that a million times already. However, I don't see how what she did in Holocron Heist could be construed as fitting any but the most lax of definitions (which almost all main protagonists would fit).
For the record, I was agreeing with you...points to not-clearly-communicated tongue-in-cheek words (in intent, anyway).
As long as this Show keeps to entertain me, i dont care if she is a sue or not. maybe she is maybe not. I dont care. I just want to be good entertained. They should better write some good stories. I think bringing back Maul shows how bad the TCW Writers are. They cant make something epic on their own. They even must bring back dead characters. Thats cheap.
If she was going around beating everyone in duels and showing up jedi masters all the time I'd be inclined to call her a sue but the kid can't even beat Grievous so what am I supposed to think?
It's not really different from people criticizing that Padme is the senator who's there when she shouldn't be instead of some other senator. It happens more often with these particular characters, so when it keeps happening, of course people criticize them more.
And she does more than "listen to a conversation". She's conveniently put into a position to prove she's a hero again; out of a whole temple of Jedi, it's her who duels and captures Cato. Of course, she is a main character, she's going to be involved in the story more than others. But afterward her punishment is over (even though no one tells her it is) and she goes with Anakin on a mission. Uncovering Cato has nothing to do with why she was punished in the first place. All that comes of the whole thing is Ahsoka being a hero again. Sue-ish or not, that is pretty much what happens.
Actually, we now know that the return of Darth Maul was demanded by George Lucas himself, so make of that what you will but I don't think the TCW writing team as a whole can be blamed.
She's punished with library duty which coincidentally (rather than through skill) leads to her uncovering someone in disguise, but too late to prevent the person they're working with from achieving their goal. There are examples in TCW of her "saving the day" to one extent or another but I don't think this is one of them.