Clone Wars The *Official* Ahsoka in The Clone Wars thread (general discussion)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by G-FETT, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    I'm waiting for the title: The Jedi Who Loved Me.
    Or maybe Anakin shows up and says, "hey that's Ahsoka's lightsaber." Could be why they show him jumping down into the undercity in the trailer.
  2. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    "The Jedi Who Loved Me'' ...told through the eyes of Lux.
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  3. Convor Jedi Grand Master

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  4. Nexumaster Force Ghost

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    I must admit that I don't really get the ongoing Ahsoka hatred. She's gone a long way from the first season, developed as a character and learned many things, not to mention she's not that sassy and cocky child anymore, but people still hate her like nothing changed. Now, I wasn't her biggest fan from the beginning, but she has really improved in my opinion and towards the better, so the hate she keeps on getting honestly feels more and more undeserved.
  5. JackG Force Ghost

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    Aug 15, 2011
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    She is too powerful; she survived multiple duels against General Grievous. She often (and unwelcomely) appears randomly in arcs, such as when she was for no reason on Ilum leading younglings. For a Padawan she is given far too much role in the running of the Jedi Order and is involved in everything, and it seems she needs to meet all the famous characters, such as Chewbacca. She is features in far too many episodes. She has the nauseating ongoing thing with Lux, which ruined the Onderon arc and is generally disturbing. Her existence is a serious impediment to continuity between TCW and RotS and stretches credibility. Her voice actor is incredibly annoying, making many ears bleed each episode she appears in. She can do anything, often better and more effective than Jedi Masters.

    In summary: she exists.
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  6. Senator Kelberry Force Ghost

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    Mar 22, 2010
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    I do enjoy the fact that they are allowing her to grow and develop and change. If she were the same person today that she was in the movie, I'd still like her more or less, but I'd be disappointed that they didn't do anything to develop her character at all. She's calmer, more mature, and really growing into her role, I think. it's because they keep developing her that I'm always interested in find out what happens to her next. Hence, why I'm looking forward to what will presumably be the season finale.
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  7. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    The last Ahsoka finale was pretty good so I'm confident the next Ashoka finale will be just as good. Really wish Filoni had not spoken about her fate semi-recently however. I've never had a problem with Ahsoka's skills. My problem with her remains how suddenly she got so mature and calm, it felt like the flip of a switch to me.
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  8. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2005
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    Sorry to "amend" your post, but it touches on many of MY problems with her so...it was easier to amend than write my own post.

    However, I do not dislike her (now, as I did early on) - I just don't totally like how her character is used (and of course that applies equally well to Padme and Anakin, especially, occasionally Obi-Wan as well).
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  9. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    My biggest problem with Ahsoka is her very existence in that it is something very major that will never again be referenced in the films due to her being added after the fact. Had Mace Windu been given an apprentice, it would not have mattered to me. If Mace had an apprentice that were killed in TCW, it's not like the main cast would really be brooding about it. But to make a character so significant and put her near significant characters really warrants a good explanation as to why nobody cares later on. And it's hard for me to accept something like "well, they did care, just off camera." It's too significant to let dissolve into the background and imagine that Anakin cried into his pillow every night for a year after she died... just off camera.

    As a character, ignoring the context of where her cog fits in the grand machine of Star Wars, I don't have much of a problem with her. But her very existence is probably factor number uno when it comes to my inability to truly look at the films and TCW as being the same continuity. Ask me in x years (whenever the show ends) and perhaps I'll have a different appreciation for her in hindsight, but that will depend entirely on how they resolve her fate to be compatible with the films.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 16, 2013
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  10. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Sep 16, 2005
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    Eh, wait until she's unfrozen and shows up guiding Luke in the new movies. [face_laugh]

    or...

    Maybe she was knighted and on her own, and it's fanon only that training a padawan to knighthood makes the master a "Master." So Anakin can still be p*ssed off when appointed as Palp's representative AND not worry about li'l 'Soka, and the 'Soka fans can be happy she was knighted at 17 or whatever age she'd be.

    And the rest of us can stop "whining" [face_talk_hand]:D about continuity (yes, I'm one of those "whiners").
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Jan 16, 2013
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  11. Togruta Force Ghost

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    ^Except there's that thing with Anakin killing his fellow Jedi in RotS..
  12. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    ^? Your point? Other than Palps perhaps amending his line to include Ahsoka? Off hand, I can't really see a problem because other than during his confrontation with Obi-Wan on Mustafar - as Darth Vader - Anakin didn't really protest when Palps told him all the Jedi needed to be killed.
  13. Togruta Force Ghost

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    We can see Anakin and Obi-Wan still work together as former-master and apprentice, so I don't see how Ahsoka being a Knight would really change anything.. Even if she's away on a mission, it doesn't seem to fit with what's going on in RotS if Anakin knows his former-Padawan is around, especially during Order 66.
    Last edited by Togruta, Jan 16, 2013
  14. Nexumaster Force Ghost

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    Feb 21, 2005
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    I had a thought today that I could see them working Ahsoka into the ST and make it work; she could be an old Jedi having survived Order 66 and the following purge and been living on some remote world, not completely unlike Yoda, and maybe Luke and/or some younger Jedi visits her and hear her tell stories about the Clone Wars and how she knew Anakin Skywalker (or something like that). This could be done without alienating people who haven't seen TCW at all.
    Last edited by Nexumaster, Jan 16, 2013
  15. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    ^

    That could be a bit of unnecessary exposition to slow down a film, though...a novel, yes, film, no.

    ~~

    And just gotta say: Ahsoka knighted in her teens really rubs me the wrong way. Granted, we only know the knighting age of Anakin and Obi-Wan for sure and maybe we can speculate both are "late bloomers" and most padawans are knighted at 17-18...[face_dunno] nah, can't believe that.
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Jan 16, 2013
  16. JackG Force Ghost

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    There's far too many Order 66 survivors already, imo. And her surviving would just add to her Mary-Sueish nature.
  17. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    Wasn't Anakin's knighting accelerated on account of the war? Ahsoka is a padawan during the war, she could be accelerated too.

    I've tried to think over how her story could conclude and not run into any problems with the films. The three best ways to resolve (best as in regards to minimum continuity errors, not best as in "OMG those are awesome") are:

    1. Ahsoka is around during ROTS off camera and gets hers during Order 66 - though this would have to be portrayed in TCW. If she's alive, Anakin would walk around talking about her all the time no more so than he does in episodes of TCW that don't have Ahsoka. Then once he falls to the Dark Side, his hatred of the Jedi might make him unsympathetic to her when she dies (just like he doesn't care about Obi-Wan and hates him all of a sudden).

    2. Ahsoka reaches a point in that she no longer wishes to be a Jedi. Maybe she gets tempted by the same things that Anakin was, but instead of living a secret life like he does, she's willing to give up her life as a Jedi to live the life of a civilian. At which point Anakin might actually feel happy for her on some level. Maybe disappointed that she left the Jedi, especially when so few have apparently done so. But also happy for her living a life that he wish he could. She would be irrelevant after Order 66 because she's not a threat and she wouldn't be talked about, because she's off living her life and it's not really relevant to anything the Jedi are doing in ROTS.

    3. Ahsoka could also die, perhaps sacrificing herself. And as she lay dying, she might be able to tell Anakin that it's not his fault and calm him down as she did in the Trandoshan arc. Or perhaps it is Padme that helps calm him down, just as she helped Anakin get through his mother's death. At which point perhaps Anakin has mistakenly believed that he has learned to get over attachments, which might be why he's so convinced that he's ready to be a master in ROTS. Only to find out that it is Padme that got Anakin through hardships, but that Anakin doesn't feel like he could go on without Padme (because then he feels there would be nobody to help him get through that).

    Having her survive (short of having the Force stripped from her as apparently can be done in the EU) opens a can of worms. Having her be killed by Dooku or Grievous seems like it would just be a huge elephant in the room in ROTS. Having her taken from Anakin and transferred to another Master seems like it would humble Anakin, not make him arrogant and expect to be made a master (and this doesn't resolve her ultimate fate).

    And I really can't think of how else to end it.

    It really boils down to live or die. I think living would be hard to handle in a credible way, and having her die raises the question as to how Anakin gets over it so easily, unless it happens during Order 66, once Anakin has turned.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 16, 2013
  18. Togruta Force Ghost

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    I think the only real requirement is that Anakin has to have no attachment to Ahsoka anymore. I think either he and everyone else don't know she's alive, or Anakin actually lets her go willingly (by death or disagreement) and the loss doesn't matter to him. Of course this is Anakin we're talking about..

    I don't know if her leaving the Order in itself would work. After all Padme and his mother weren't Jedi.
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  19. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2013
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    .....and Hayden Christensen is Anakin Skywalker's force ghost in ROTJ.

    Just saying, never say never when it comes to something concerning the fact that the films were already "completed." Sure, GL is just a "consultant" for LFL now but ultimately, If he pushes for it, they'll revisit ROTS in the editing room.

    ROTS takes place over the course of 9 days - she's been on longer missions away from Anakin and Coruscant in TCW. There's no reason she couldn't be away during the entirity of the film's events. As for no mention of her during Order 66, she was his Padawan. Kenobi might have seemed like a challenge to "all-powerful Anakin," but his Padawan, I don't think he had to worry about her being someone he had to confront personally (She was captured by Trandoshans after all, why assume the clones couldn't handle her). Obviously there's so many directions they could go with her (even with ideas of Vader going after her after ROTS, but ultimately, her absence from the film really shouldn't be something to get hung up on IMO.

    Really, the way the film is told, it's a story about Obi-wan and Anakin more than anything. I see it the same way I see the absence of Tom Bombadil in Peter Jackson's LOTR. He was pretty f'in important to the hobbits in the books - they'd probably have died if not for him, but ultimately, when you're telling a story, things get trimmed in the interest of focus, time, necessity, etc. When you look @ the ROTS film - I think most people already feel like too much plot has been crammed into such a short time so its understandable if other things were omitted. I know I can't watch it without thinking, "We'll they don't explain that very well or go into detail on that, or cover this subject at all, but b/c i know EU, it makes sense to me."

    I know there's a general consensus (one that I held for a long time), that Ahsoka's existence doesn't make any sense in the context of ROTS. But overtime, i've looked at it more objectively and don't think it really makes it impossible. I think the problem is that as SW fans, when the films come out, we have this habit of clinging to them as the Bible - nothing can be added or subtracted w/o it being blasphemy. When in reality, and I think in GL's mind as well, while they may be "G-canon," they're not a crystal clear window into the SW Universe of past events that can't be changed - they're movies. and GL can go back and tinker - for better or for worse - because they're fictional stories and if GL has a "what if moment" that he thinks could be cool, he can tinker some more to make it happen.

    I think once I was able to get past that, I was able to see Ahsoka for what she's meant to be seen as - a really fun, bada** Padawan - not as the devisive fan dilema that I think initially shocked all of us fans when she was announced.
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  20. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Well, life would go on if Ahsoka dies prior to ROTS and if there are alot of things going on concerning living people to preoccupy Anakin. I don't think she'll be dead. Its easy to fanon reason for why Ahsoka is not mentioned. I do tend to think she simply won't be important at the time to ROTS so she wouldn't need to be hypothetically mentioned. She should be nowhere near any events in the film if she is alive at the time. She'll probably live into the dark times and die long before the Saga..
  21. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    I'm not saying Anakin would be mentioning Ahsoka in casual conversation, and if Obi-Wan were Ahsoka's master, then I'd agree that life would go on. But Anakin's got horrible attachment issues. And especially if Ahsoka were killed by the CIS, I would expect that anger to boil over in ROTS. I mean, if Dooku killed Ahsoka, I would imagine that would have come up again definitely, and that Anakin would go all out on Dooku. Instead we hear that Anakin's actually in control of his hate initially when fighting Dooku in ROTS, which is not something I'd think is consistent with how Anakin is portrayed, if Dooku killed Ahsoka. I would also think that Ahsoka's death would be the obvious salt for Anakin to rub into Anakin's wounds to make him angry, rather than mentioning his lost arm.

    Same thing if Grievous killed Ahsoka, I would think that in ROTS when Palpatine requests Anakin to go after him and the Council sends Obi-Wan instead, that Ahsoka would get mentioned, if not mentioned as soon as they encounter each other at the beginning of ROTS.

    And I would think that along with Anakin's failure to save his mom making him horribly anxious about the visions he's having of Padme, I would think that in more recent events that his perceived failure to keep his Padawan alive would also come up. Also if he failed and his Padawan was killed, I'd think he'd be harder on himself and not lash out with the expectation that he should be made a master.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 17, 2013
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  22. Togruta Force Ghost

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    Ahsoka being his Padawan/ fellow Jedi and Anakin knowing she's alive, I just don't see that as working with RotS. It's not like an episode of TCW, she just can't be conveniently left out of these huge events with no reference to her, while we get glimpses of other background Jedi actually being killed.
    Last edited by Togruta, Jan 17, 2013
  23. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    So, you have Palps dub in an additional line about killing "even your former apprentice" and add a scene of her dying...I suppose such could be done without too much trouble.
  24. Togruta Force Ghost

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    ^Probably would be random for the audience who doesn't watch the show.. If Anakin had Ahsoka's life in his hands, I don't think it would be dealt with the same as other Jedi he wasn't attached to.

    This should probably go to the Ahsoka's fate thread though.
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  25. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 24, 2004
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    Dave Filoni recently did a very long interview with Rebel Force Radio in which he revealed some interesting details about the final arc of Season 5. He stated that he had to send the rest of the cast out to the lobby except for Matt Lanter (Anakin) and Ashley Eckstein (Ahsoka) so that Anakin and Ahsoka could record an ultra-secret conversation:
    Here is that leaked conversation: **warning** major spoiler!
    Show Spoiler
    Anakin: "Ahsoka, I have a great secret to tell you."
    Ahsoka: "What is it, Master SkyGuy?"
    Anakin: "Ahsoka, you are the true Chosen One."
    Ahsoka: "..................................................................."
    Anakin: "Ahsoka, I can tell by your silence that you are stunned speechless."
    Ahsoka: "No Master, I just felt a tremor in the Force as if a million voices cried out in horror as their universe was exploded like some gigantic space station."
    Anakin: "Interesting that I did not feel that. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, my future Lord Ahsoka."
    Ahsoka: "They are clear, my Master. And of course you would not have felt it as you are not the Chosen One."