Clone Wars The *Official* Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by JediLight, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    How about waiting until he actually turns evil?

    Anakin has to be a good guy. Luke was a good guy, had friends, was a hero, and yet when he struck Vader down and the Emperor asked him to take his father?s place at his side, I really believed Luke might do it, that he might go to the Dark Side, even though Luke was never really ?dark? before. The kinder Anakin is, the more his fall counts.

    Filoni gets it. Why can't you?
  2. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    And Luke never turned to the darkside, Anakin did if I am correct.And besides Lucas did just that with Episode I and II, Anakin may be a brat in episode II but he was not evil. It seems that all you want is rehash of Luke, the father has to be darker and more complex then the son for the story to work.
  3. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Actually, quite the opposite. If we see all these early signs before Anakin goes dark (though personally I'd consider the Tusken slaughter 'temporarily going dark early' rather than simply a 'sign' of inner turmoil), then when we get to Luke and see none of these signs it's obvious that there's no way Luke will turn. It ruins all the suspense Filoni is praising here.
  4. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Perharps if the PT was written prior to the OT, since we know what happens to Luke already, the suspense is already gone. The PT has to tell us why Anakin transforms into Vader, for someone to become evil, the character has to be more complex and darker. Making Anakin a epic hero would have been a mistake in the PT, it works well with the TCW since it is to show us how Anakin matures as the years go by, and why he and Obi-Wan are consider the greatest Jedi duo in the galaxy.
  5. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Does this mean you disagree with Lucas's suggested 1-6 viewing order? Because there are going to be (and as I understand it already have been) plenty of people who sit down to watch the saga with no prior knowledge about what happens.

    Besides that, suspenseful elements still exist in films when you know what happens. At least in good films they do. I've heard numerous people on these boards talk about watching RotS and still having a part in them that wants Anakin to not do the evil things he does, even though the rational side of them knows he's going to do exactly the same things he did the last time they watched the movie.
  6. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    I don't disagree with Lucas viewing order, it all makes sense 1-6. And besides most people who haven't watch the saga said it all makes sense and the fact that some of them had compassion for Skywalker defeats the purpose of Anakin being written like Luke. Yeah there is a need for suspenseful elements no doubt. But most people who didn't watch the OT, knew that Luke didn't turn.
  7. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    The younger ones didn't. Neither will the majority of generations to come. Isn't Star Wars 'for the kids'?

    Viewing order aside, we've established that you clearly either disagree with or don't understand what Filoni's talking about.
  8. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    How have a disagreed with or don't understand Filoni? I have said that his idea of writing Anakin as more of an epic, swashbuckling hero is fine in the TCW. But I don't think it would have been the right course for the PT.

    In all, it just wouldn't make sense for Anakin not to be darker and more complex then Luke.
  9. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Anakin gets WAY darker than Luke, once he turns to the dark side.

    The darker Anakin is pre-turn, the less significant the seductive power of the dark side becomes. Anakin ends up turning not because the dark side is powerful and dangerous, but because he's got more emotional baggage than half the galaxy.
  10. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    lol, you misunderstood me when I mean't that Anakin has to be darker then Luke, I mean't that Anakin's flaws have to be more profound then Luke. Anakin has to be more complex from his relationships, actions, and thoughts. I am sorry that I didn't clarify that in the beginning.
  11. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    No, I understood you, I just disagree. Like Filoni, I think Anakin needs to stay as heroic as possible until the turn, because that's what makes it dramatic.

    Why do you think pre-turn Anakin has to be more flawed and complex than Luke?
  12. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Simply because if Anakin doesn't have his major flaws(Pride, ambition, inability to accept change and death) it makes his fall of grace less believeable IMO, there has to be some sort of signs of darkness there. Anakin has to be more complex then Luke, he has to have the goodness, but also the flaws have to stick out more.

    The son has to be greater then the father.
  13. QueenMother_LK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2009
    star 4
    I don't know about you guys, but the first time (and the next couple times too) that I watched RoTS, it really felt tragic that anakin fell. I mean, we all knew he was going to fall but I still felt so sad. Granted I was little younger, but I think that the Anakin portrayed in the PT was adequate enough to make it all seem so tragic. But then again, maybe it was the way he fell, like out of a misunderstanding, sort of.
    minnishe likes this.
  14. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    You're missing the point of the seductive nature of the dark side. The whole point is that the dark side can turn someone who seems completely incorruptible into someone like Darth Vader.

    If Anakin turns because of a bunch of deep-seated flaws, then the 'dark side' isn't a seductive or powerful force; it's just a term for describing mean people who use the Force.
  15. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Yeah, that is pretty much how I felt. I really didn't care about Anakin in episode II, but his fall of grace in episode III seems to sad, seeing how he had the right intentions at first.
  16. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    And your missing the point of Anakin's turn. It is not about the power at first, it is inability to stop death and change. His inability to accept change is his undoing in the end and the flaw becomes more profound as the story advances.Anakin's fall from grace was thirteen years in the making, it is not something that happened overnight.

  17. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    And in the process, the concept of the dark side as a seductive force that can turn a good man evil is thrown out the window and becomes nothing more than 'the magic Vader uses to choke people'
  18. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Yet, Anakin was a good person with good intentions. So in a way the seductive nature of the darkside is not invalid. Anakin intention in episode III was to save his wife from death, when he has the power to do so that intention then becomes the intention to control the galaxy.
  19. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Because then the only dark-siders we see in the saga are psychos and/or sociopaths. So all Luke really has to do to avoid falling is not be crazy. It sucks all the drama out of RotJ.
  20. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Here lies the problem, you don't think Anakin was actually a good person, who had the good intentions. Well, I can't change your mind, so to each his very own.
  21. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    He was mostly a good person, and sure he had good intentions. But as depicted in the PT he's also got an excessive amount of emotional and psychological baggage which clearly has more to do with his evil choices than does any seductive power of the dark side itself. Because Luke doesn't have all these problems it becomes obvious that he's incorruptible, which as I said kills the drama.
  22. QueenMother_LK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2009
    star 4
    Honestly, I think both of you have good points. His fall was sort of a mixture of both. Yes Anakin did have some huge character flaws that made his fall to the dark side logical, but at the same time, RotS makes an effort to point out how easy it is to just slip to the dark side. It was definitely a combo of both.
  23. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    But we have seen Luke go crazy when Vader threaten to make Leia his Sith apprentice causing him to unleash an animalistic rage against Vader. Luke has the same attachment issues that Anakin had when he tried to save Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru in ANH, Han and Leia in ESB, and the entire Rebel alliance in ROTJ. The only reason Luke didn't surrender to the Dark Side is because he's seen what the Dark Side did to his father just from looking at both his and Vader's robotic hands.

    Plus, Luke had a better upbringing than Anakin ever did.
  24. QueenMother_LK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2009
    star 4
    Yeah hanging out with Obi-wan just turns you into a terrible person. :p But seriously, Anakin was a slave, and that influence on his psyche was kind of ignored after TPM
  25. Obi-Mcfly Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 1
    Heck, it was pretty much ignored in TPM. Yeah, Anakin was a slave, but other than that he seemed pretty happy in his life, what with all the "Yippee!s", and "wizards". Seriously though, Watoo wasn't *that* much of a jerk to him, he had a bunhc of friends, a good relationship with his mom, and he got to podrace, and build stuff-two things he loved. I'd say from the movie he had a pretty ok life, until he went to the Jedi. That's when everything changed.