Full Series The *Official* Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars Discussion Thread

(a) it's a little different when JEJ is giving the lines through a modulator and they include the breathing effects;

(b) having the Hero of the PT speak like that was a poor choice; they already were enough cracks about "wooden" actors in SW, then Lucas decides Hayden needs to read everything completely flat? Or is it just Hayden's voice? Either way, it didn't work.

 

I have to say, TCW has made me into a Plo Koon fan. I hadn't read most of the Plo comics, but most of the other attempts to approximate his voice and demeanor fell flat because they made him sound so mechanical and alien while TCW casts him as a wise Jedi Master.

 

Dude, listen. One, you'd have a point if not half the people on the documentary hadn't said something negative about the Prequel Trilogy in the past. You know, half of those reviewers were those who gave thumbs down reviews of the three movies. Don't you think its a little suspicious they start giving such...praise to something they negatively reviewed? Dude, you can go to Rottentomatoes and find that half the critics there, or more, had given negative reviews to Episodes I, II, and III.

And I'm getting mad? Dude, you're the one angrily trying ot convince me that to be a fan of a series I have to like everything and not complain about anything. That I'm suppose to bask in Lucas's 'genius' and 'understand and respect' it since Star Wars is 'sacred'. I already said 'it is okay for you to like it', so why the kriffing hell are you continuing to say that 1. I'm not a fan because I don't like the first three films. 2. That I don't buy a mockumentary that you loved? Why don't you actually *acknowledge* some of the faults and complaints about the PT instead of telling us there are none and telling us to 'understand' it?

You're coming off as

 

TCW Anakin is definitely more likable than PT Anakin, more heroic. He has to be for their to be an effective relationship with his Padawan for the purpose of the series.

One thing about the PT was that I had a very difficult time understanding why Padme would fall in love with the moody, petulant, angst-ridden Anakin, and once they were together, how that relationship could have lasted, particularly since it was clandestine, which would have added significantly to the overall level of stress.

The TCW Anakin is an Anakin worthy of being loved. So the series helps authenticate that relationship. Unfortunately, the Clone Wars Anakin and Padme are almost continuously separated by business.

In conclusion, I think the survival of their relationship depends almost exclusively on them almost always being apart. Long distance marriage. That's why Padme's blindsided at the end of ROTS: she doesn't really know him very well.

 

a) Because of this I can believe it's the same guy.

b) As I understand it, Lucas did tell him to speak in a certain way, but Hayden's voice is kind of weird sometimes, yeah.

 

To "SuperSaiyaMan12"-

Were just going to have to agree to disagree.

But to call the legacy revealed "some mockumentary" just because its positive about the movies you hate is just wrong, im sorry. The things those professionals sight about the PT characters (as well as the OT characters) are all correct.

I don't want to talk about it anymore.

 

As far as the OP goes, I think that, in AOTC, Lucas & Co. went overboard in their depiction of Anakin's negative traits (making him too incorrigible, bratty, and self-centered). Showing at least kernels of negativity was probably a necessity, considering that he was to become Darth Vader, but I think they just took it too far, a total 180-degree turn from the earnest, sweet boy in TPM.

This trend was continued in the first CW cartoon, where, amazingly, he was even more obnoxious then he was in AOTC.

But, then, somebody at Lucasfilm identified that they'd swung the pendulum too far, making him a bad guy prematurely. So, in the second episode of coriginal CW and through ROTS, they depicted him as warmer and, again, very earnest. (A corollary to Anakin's depiction is his relationship with Obi-Wan. In AOTC and in the first CW cartoon, they seem to virtually hate each other. But by ROTS, they have a strong bond and trust between them.)

So, I think that any alteration of Anakin's portrayal in AOTC is a good one. However, I like the Anakin from TPM and ROTS, which is 2/3 of the PT. But the new CW show almost can't help but improve the character of Anakin from the remaining 1/3 of the PT.

 

I never really thought the Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship was off in TCW.

Particularly in parts of TCW film, I thought it was spot on, actually.

 

I think the reason why Anakin is shown as a more likable character in TCW, is because Lucas knew he went too far with the character in AOTC.

I think Lucas knew he dropped the ball with Anakin's character in the PT. Since that's the case, he's more than making up for it in TCW.

 

After watching the TCW movie and several episodes, doesn't this ROTS scene feel more legitimate, now?

ANAKIN: (continuing) Master, I've disappointed you. I have not been very appreciative of your training . . . I have been arrogant and I apologize . . . I've just been so frustrated with the Council. Your friendship means everything to me.

OBI-WAN: You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be, and you have saved my life more times than I can remember. But be patient, Anakin. It won't be long before the Council makes you a Jedi Master.

Garth, I think DBrennan was talking about Anakin/Obi-Wan's relationship in the Cartoon series, not TCW. Anakin's personality and relationship with Obi-Wan was actually worse in the first CW cartoon episode than AOTC. But I may be misunderstanding your's/his point entirely.

I do think the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan was excellent in the TCW movie, and in the series to-date. Of course, It was also good in ROTS (until Mustafar).

The only time where it was really off was AOTC.

 

You're right when you say that I was complaining about the original CW series, not the new CGI one. However, the Anakin/Obi-Wan relationship in the CGI series is also much different than the one in ROTS and the one described in ANH and ROTJ.

Again, they're merely replacing Obi-Wan with Ahsoka. Ahsoka is now Anakin's "good friend" (ANH) and Obi-Wan is now just a bickering, overbearing authority figure.

 

But not to do a Ric Olie, but it kinda had to be as they were Master and Apprentice at that time, freed of that dynamic they've become better friends. Which is why we see a different Anakin, he's not chafing under Obi-Wan's apprenticeship. Some seem to misunderstand this point.

 

Obi-Wan still outranked Anakin in ROTS and was, effectively, his master.

The improvement in their relationship's depiction almost definitely came from audience focus polling and an objective assessment of the mistakes they'd made in AOTC (just as they knew not to spotlight Jar Jar after TPM).

But the CW cartoon seems to have reverted back to the AOTC issues, where the two seem to almost despise each other. I don't think it's quite as bad, but it's still just absolutely inconsistent from what you'd expect based on what old Obi-Wan says in ANH and ROTJ.

 

It's a valid point you bring here, but let's not forget that at the end of the TCW, Anakin and Obi-Wan are teamed up again. Maybe they still have opportunties to show they are "good friends" in the TCW before everything is said and done.

 

That's why reason why Ahsoka existing bothers me. Not only does it screw with continuity (in my mind it does), but the more canon, more important relationship is getting the shaft AGAIN. It was side-stepped in AotC for Anakin/Padme, hell, it was side-stepped in TPM for Anakin/Qui-Gon, and though RotS was so much better, Anakin/Palpatine was the main focus of that movie. So the CW should be spending it's time on Anakin/Obi-Wan, but nope, now Ahsoka, someone who was made up out of nowhere has a more developed relationship with Anakin than Obi-Wan does.

*shakes head at Lucas*

Throw me a bone, please.

 

People, it's been 8 episodes. There's going to be plenty of time for Anakin/Obi stuff. Myself, I'd like to see Obi-Wan interacting with some other people. Maybe a Obi/Aayla team-up, how awesome would that be?

 

Oh please!

The improvement isnt down to polling, Lucas doesnt pay any attention to **** like that. The reason the relationship was fractured in AOTC was because they were Master and Padawan, its not easy to be best friends when you're in that situation.
The situation "improves" because once they are freed from that dynamic, aren't always together (because the Master-Padawan dynamic demanded that they were), they are able to better appreciate each other and Anakin realises how much better a person Obi-Wan is. That he is a true friend.
It was obviously hard for Obi-Wan to be objective with Anakin, he was his friend but he had to be a judge on how he was progressing as a Padawan.

Friendships go through ups and downs, through tough times, its not always rosy, just because Obi-Wan said they were good friends doesnt mean Lucas can't show that they also had their moments when they didnt agree with each other.

 

Lucasfilm Ltd., a multi-billion dollar company....doesn't pay attention to market studies? If so....I think all of the investors and stakeholders might want to cash out pretty soon!

No, I'm just kidding, because we all know that they do. We know this because it's clear that Lucas all but killed off Jar Jar in response to the fans' disapproval, we know this because Lucas himself talked about how the creative process is done cooperatively at Celebration 3 (you can listen to audio of the discussion in the CDs included in the book, 'The Star Wars Vault'), and we know this from basic common sense.

If you want to believe that Lucas creates all these characters through divine inspiration, that's your prerogative, but it's a completely asinine statement, on its face.

Ahsoka is, almost without any question at all, a concoction approved of by the Lucasfilm marketing department. Do you believe that Lucas had conceived of Anakin having an apprentice and it was Ahsoka back in 1976? Where are you coming from on this?

 

Lucasfilm as a company might do so, I wouldnt disagree with you there. But George Lucas himself is a different case. His creative process is collaborative based on Lucas going to his departments with ideas and concepts, he writes the story and its his own process. There is no direct quote where Lucas has ever ever said that he responded to negativity regarding Jar Jar. Is it not common sense also to realise that Jar Jar's role was marginalised by the natural state of the plot.
Ahsoka is clearly a different case. Her role is specifically targeted towards the demographic the cartoon series is really aimed towards.

But it doesnt directly answer my point. Anakin & Obi-Wan's friendship does not have to follow Obi-Wan's memories to a tee. Every friendship has its dodgy points and we see that in AOTC. Its quite clear both parties are good friends and they care about each other, but equally they have been in each others pockets for so long that they frustrate each other.

 

But between AOTC, the original CW, and the new CW, Anakin and Obi-Wan's troubles go way beyond "dodgy": they seem to absolutely hate each other. This is just my opinion (although my brother, who's not any particular SW fan at all, said the same thing after AOTC), but I think that Lucas and some of the other writers accidentally went too far in trying to show that Anakin had an "edge" to him.

But with ROTS, they seemed to quickly mend the relationship and the characters (and even the actors themselves) seemed to have a terrific rapport and comradarie. So in 2005, I just thought that all's well that ends well. But with the new CW, they've distorted the relationship again, in an entirely new way: Ahsoka has squeezed Obi-Wan out, and she's now the good friend and work partner for Anakin. And as I said before, Obi-Wan is now just an overbearing misery-monger. He's a borderline bad guy in this show. (This is by necessity: there's only room for so many heroes!)

 

You know i have never understood why people are never satisfied with how much Anakin and obi-wan mention and show there relationship as good friends and partners. After a while its like, well what more do you want them to do? hug and kiss???

In TPM the very first, establishing portrayal of what the master/apprentice relationship is generally like shows obi-wan and gui-gon disagreeing sometimes and qui-gon gives obi-wan a little scolding in some scenes and the only scene where they take the time to show appreciation for each other was the scene on naboo towards the end of the movie where obi-wan apologizes to gui-gon about disagreeing with him. The rest of the movie they were very strictly more of a partnership than "brothers".

Now with Anakin and Obi-wan in AOTC the very first scene we see of them they are laughing and reminiscing and looking at each other smiling. Then when it comes to serious business in the next scene they disagree --but so what? they bicker. C3-PO and R2-D2 bicker much worse to the point of name calling and we know they love each other just like how i fight and argue with my good friends all the time but if anything were to happen to them i would be heart broken.

The elevator scene was most certainly not the "only scene" that was like this, the whole almost ten min. long chase sequence in the beginning was mostly meant to show there relationship --and its a good relationship, they were shown to have a little "competitive" thing going on with anakin proving himself here and there in little ways and then obi-wan sort of "one upping him" and so on. After all they are men, what do you want them to do hug? Anakin says right out two times in the movie that obi-wan is the closest thing he has ever known to a father. Then he parts ways with obi-wan to protect padme for the whole middle of the movie and the next scene they are in together anakin is risking his life to save him.

BOTTOM LINE: We never saw qui-gon and obi-wan reminiscing and laughing and playfully busting each others chops the way we DID INDEED see anakin and obi-wan do in AOTC --and this is not even counting ROTS. Dont get me wrong, im not saying it was "perfect" in AOTC im only saying that just because they are scenes where they argue doesn't mean that they don't have a good friendship.

 

The biggest problem I have with Anakin's story in AotC actually lies with Padme.

When he confesses the tusken slaughter to her, all she can say is 'to be angry is to be human'.

That is SO out of character for someone like Padme. She's supposed to be this highly idealistic political leader, a moral rolemodel to a lot of people if you will, and she should absolutely know the difference between 'being angry' and murdering a whole village, women and children included.

Realistically, it should have been a major shock to her and a total turn-off as far as Anakin is concerned. Granted, she is supposed to have feelings for him, and I understand people don't like to see the faults of the ones they love, but this is just ridiculous, especially for a character like Padme. She shows almost no reaction, she just brushes it away with one light-hearted remark. In a way, she is his 'enabler' because she isn't critical of his deeds.

If I were in Anakin's shoes, I wouldn't have told her a thing about what I did, because it would absolutely turn her off.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just bad writing.

To make matters even worse, when Obiwan tells her in RotS that he's seen a recording of Anakin killing younglings, she reacts as if the idea of him killing children is an impossible scenario. "Not Anakin! He couldn't!" Because she damn well knows he could, and he did it before.

A little off-topic, I know.

 

Yeah, I forgot the part where the Jedi younglings abducted and killed moisture farmers.

 

I'm talking about killing children and you know it.