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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series The *Official* Anakin Skywalker in the Clone Wars Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by JediLight, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    I still have trouble with the reasoning behind the Council giving him a Padawan for sure. I mean, AotC is his first solo mission and it's a complete failure. I know that Mace and Yoda still believe in the prophecy as of AotC and CW, but still.
     
  2. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    True, but Vader's being young doesn't necessitate Anakin's being young the way you were describing above. My point is that Obi-Wan lied about Vader's entire existence as an individual distinct from Anakin, so there's no reason he couldn't have been lying about this fictional separate Vader's age as well.

    This post sums up everything that's wrong with how the PT handled Anakin.

    Anakin HAS to be a hero in order for his turn to have any meaning. Otherwise it's not a turn, it's just the natural progression of things.
     
  3. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Anakin has to be flawed, or it wouldn't make any sense.
     
  4. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Anakin having been Obi-Wan's padawan implies it, though.
     
  5. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    In the context of the original film, the word 'padawan' doesn't exist. Anakin could just have easily been Obi-Wan's age or older.
     
  6. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    The idea that students are trained by older, more experienced Jedi remains, with or without the word "padawan".
     
  7. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    Teachers are by definition more experienced than their students, but not necessarily older.

    Not that that even matters, since nowhere in SW does anyone mention Obi-Wan having been Anakin's teacher. Vader is called Obi-Wan's pupil, but Anakin frankly comes off as more of a contemporary. Hell, the original film doesn't even reveal Anakin's name!
     
  8. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    When Vader became Anakin, Obi-Wan became Anakin's teacher.

    In SW it's pretty much the same thing.
     
  9. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    Keep in mind that this line of discussion is in the context of this post:

    so this is a discussion of what Anakin COULD have been, not what he ultimately turned out to be. As I've explained, SW certainly supports things as goraq imagined them, and even including RotJ's revelation that Ben was Anakin's teacher, nothing in the OT suggests that goraq's vision (similar to my own and that of many others I know) wouldn't fit.

    Exactly. So Anakin could even have conceivably been OLDER than Obi-Wan...

    EDIT: ...which would have fit perfectly with Shaw's age in RotJ and therefore no SE-DVD costume test photoshopping would ever have been necessary.
     
  10. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    Having Anakin being in his 40's or 50's would have been a bad idea. If he is a wise Sage, they he would never turn. Having him be a young, reckless, arrogant kid makes it much more believeable.

    Besides, once Vader and Anakin became the same, he had to be the young pupil. Like Arewn said. If they were seperate characters then Anakin being old would work, but since Vader and Anakin are the same, it just works better that way.
     
  11. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    It was TESB, not ROTJ. And there's also the "young Jedi" reference.

    No, I meant that "older" and "more experienced" are generally synonymous for Jedi.
     
  12. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    You'll have to refresh me: when is it mentioned in ESB that Obi-Wan taught Anakin? Sure, if you accept Vader's revelation as true, it's obvious since Ben taught Vader, but it's not until RotJ that we find out for SURE that Vader wasn't lying.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but the only people ever referred to as "young Jedi" are Vader (by Ben in SW, which as I've explained is describing a non-existent non-Anakin Vader, so the age Ben assigns to Vader wouldn't necessarily hold for Anakin) and Luke (by Jabba and the Emperor in RotJ). There are no "young Jedi" references that would settle the question of Anakin's age.

    Especially considering the way that Luke is referred to as "young Jedi", which suggests that it's rare for someone his age to be a full Jedi. And considering Anakin was a Jedi before he turned dark, one can reasonably assume that he was at least older than his early 20s when he turned.

    But then, that doesn't mean Anakin and/or Obi-Wan couldn't have been ahead of the curve. You could have an older Ben training a younger Anakin, a younger Ben training an older Anakin, or a younger Ben training a younger Anakin.

    It doesn't HAVE to play out the way goraq and I imagined, but pre-PT our versions were just as valid and consistent as the others.
     
  13. SuperSaiyaMan12

    SuperSaiyaMan12 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2005
    What makes you say that? Age does not matter when it comes to the fall to the Dark Side.
     
  14. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    What would be his reason for turning to the darkside? Lucas wanted to make it more sympathetic. Besides if Anakin was older we would be sitting here complaining about a plot hole.;)
     
  15. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    But that's not the way it is anymore. Even though Obi-Wan was originally describing a non-Anakin Vader, he is now ( as it has been since TESB/ROTJ ) describing Anakin/Vader. In the context of ANH taken as a standalone film it works to have them the same age, but in conjunction with the other films not so much.
     
  16. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon

    Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Knight star 6

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    Dec 17, 2000
    No. He's describing someone who doesn't exist. And again, it's not until RotJ that we learn for SURE that Anakin and Vader are the same person, or even hear the name 'Anakin'.
     
  17. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    Kenobi is describing Anakin, the only thing we have to fall back on is what we learn in the next two movies. Anakin being older would just be a plot hole.
     
  18. AhsokaMiro

    AhsokaMiro Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2008
    That's true, although I'm pretty sure one of the treatment/synopses of SW that Lucas put together in the early '70's had the word "padawan" in it. It's the one that also had the name Mace Windu in it, the Journal of the Whills and all that. Didn't make it into any of the OT films, but it's old school lore. Wait, here it is:

    "the story of Mace Windu, a revered Jedi-bendu of Ophuchi who was related to Usby C.J. Thape, a padawaan leader to the famed Jedi"
    or
    ?This is the story of Mace Windy, a revered Jedi-Bendu of Opuchi, as related to us by C.J Thape, padawaan learner to the famed Jedi.?
    depending on who you ask.

    Wow, that's funny... I'd never known that the words "us by" had been corrupted into part of the character's name as this little fragment made its way through fan lore. Apparently "Windy" is correct in the original version, too. But I digress.
     
  19. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    He's not describing someone who doesn't exist. That's not how retcons work. As of the later films Vader and Anakin are the same person. In terms of saga continuity, when Kenobi talks about Vader he's talking about Anakin.
     
  20. Celeste_Morne

    Celeste_Morne Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Although CW anakin is still chessy and irritating, he isn't as laughably stupid as the prequel version. The CW one has his moments, like holding back the explosion in Jedi Crash.
     
  21. Garth Maul

    Garth Maul Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    I loved him in the last 2 episodes; a true hero.
     
  22. LawJedi

    LawJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2009
    Dude, what exactly is the point of this "interpretation" of what the OT Anakin and Obi-Wan might have been like? Or whether what was said in ANH matches what we learn in ROTJ? Are you arguing that we shouldn't acknowledge ROTJ because it doesn't match your assumptions of Anakin possibly being older than Obi-Wan, or whatever?

    Your expectations are not canon. The movies are.
     
  23. LawJedi

    LawJedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Exactly. Why are we discussing a hypothetical based on someone who watched ANH once, and imagined what PT Anakin would be like? That's like me whining about ESB not matching my "interpretations" based on reading the late 70's Marvel comics. It's utterly subjective, without any logical or useful frame of reference, and belongs in a fan-fic discussion.
     
  24. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    The crash landing and the carring Obi-wan part, I agree with but Palpatine setup his own kidnapping and Anakin killing Dooku wasn't heroic. Dooku lost both hands and is defenseless but Anakin still murdered him so he's more of a divided individual.

    Anakin's desire to help others has been criss-crossed by Palpatine's meddling influence which is why he's only doing good things for the wrong reasons. In AOTC, Anakin really wanted to punish Dooku for getting Padme hurt and he only said that line just to please Obi-wan. He didn't care about anyone besides Padme which is why he wanted to finish off Dooku quickly so he could get back to her.

    True, but Obi-wan would've done a better job of convincing Anakin to give up the Dark Side instead of chopping his limbs off and leaving him to die a fiery death.

    Was he telling the truth about Anakin wanting Luke to have his lightsaber? That Anakin was killed by Darth Vader? Or that Obi-wan took it upon himself to train Anakin as a Jedi? No, so that makes Obi-wan a big-fat liar. It is common with society that if a person does one thing wrong, the amount of good deeds you do will be completely ignored and Anakin has done more harm than good.
     
  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Obi-Wan did take it upon himself to train Anakin as a Jedi.