~ * ~ The OFFICIAL Balancing the Force Thread ~ * ~

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Valyn, May 29, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Wes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000
    star 3
    Wouldn't arrogance be a Dark side trait, if so you could say that the Jedi order was basically stepping to dark and the destruction of it was the only way to stop the galaxy been commanded by an unimposible force of Dark Jedi, so destroying it was in the best interest of the Galaxy and the Empire's rule was the lesser of two evils.
  2. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Interesting thought, Wes. I don't know whether or not arrogance is a "Dark Side" trait, though. :(

    Stryker: I'd read them, but I'm not a fan of KJA's writing and, to my knowledge, he's the author of those tales. :(

  3. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Hey, you confused me with Jedi Ben. :(

    That's alright, though, because Ben is an intelligent, suave, sophisticated guy who really knows where his towel is. :D ;)

    I never read TotJ because I'd heard from a friend that they were no good. Are those TPBs that you listed, JB?
  4. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Stryker: :eek:
    Whoops! Sorry! :eek:
    It's not my fault, though! You guys have such similar names! Jediben; Jedistryker. :(
    And your icons are the same, too! :_|

  5. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    S'okay. :D

    Like I said, there are worse people you could confuse me with.

    And yes, our names and Icons are virtually identical. I think he copies me because I am so popular, and he wants to cash in on my fame and good name.


    :p

  6. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    No body tries to copy me... :(
    Instead, they refer to either me or Valiento as "Val", which serves to only confuse me, 'cause I don't know which one of us they're referring to. It's mostly him, though. :(

    :p

  7. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Yeah, Valiento always has an in-depth analysis for any SW question that could come up. The way you're going, though, you'll be right behind him.
  8. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Awww...JediStryker always says the sweetest things to me... [face_love] [face_blush]

    :p ;)

  9. Yomin_Carr Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2002
    star 4
    If you take a totally purist standpoint, you could say that Anakin was meant to destroy the Jedi Order, and have the Sith and Jedi be equal in number, 2 for the Sith (Palpatine, Vader), and two for the Jedi (Kenobi, Yoda.) When Obi-Wan died, perhaps he realized that for the Balance of the Force to remain, he had to die, for Luke was rising in power, and soon three Jedi would exist, with only two Sith, disrupting the balance. So after ANH we have Luke and Yoda v. Vader and Palpatine. After ESB we have the same two pairs, but at the beginning of ROTJ, Yoda dies, seemingly throwing the balance in favor of darkness. However, at this point in time we can see that Vader is already swaying from the darkside, not really either in terms of balancing the Force, so by mid-ROTJ, we have Luke v. Palpatine, with Vader/Anakin in the middle. Then at the end of the movie, we have Palpatine perishing and Vader turning to the light. At the conclusion of the movie, we have Luke and Leia v. ------. Presumably either the Force would have been balanced for a time, and now was ready to tip back to the light, or perhaps the Sith or some other evil order lived on, and the planned final trilogy would have dealt with this final resurgence of the Sith.
  10. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    That's an interesting theory, Yomin, but I don't think that 'balance' means an equal amount of Force-users on either side; I believe that it means a balance to the Force itself.
  11. Sithwitch_13 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 2
    Okay, I read this in a humor fanfic, but it made a lot of sense.

    Balance means that good and evil are equal, right?
    There are only 2 sith.
    In the original trilogy (movie, not counting all the ones in hiding in the books) there are only 2 Jedi (Obi-wan & yoda).

    Makes sense, don't it?

    Those Jedi REALLY misinterpreted that prophecy, didn't they?
  12. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    Sithwitch: I think that's the theory that the films seem to suggest. But, if that's so, then doesn't the EU sort of contradict teh film's meaning of "Balance"? :confused:

  13. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    But then Anakin would have thrown the Force out of balance by killing the Emperor and essentially himself. Luke was the only Jedi, there were no Sith to counterbalance him. (If we're looking at this from a purist POV)

    I just don't think that balance means equal numbers of each user, it has to have something to do with the Force itself.
  14. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    That is true, Stryker. I've heard it said that Lucas, during some interview, said that "Balance" was restored when Vader killed Palpatine.

    Does anyone know what Lucas meant when he said this? :confused:

  15. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yeah, I gave the TPB titles.

    Anderson's writing actually seems more suited to comics than books, so the medium might be said to aid his writing here.

    JS: You never read them because a friend said they were no good? Hmm, doesn't sound like you somehow. Your friend may have read the Golden Age Of The Sith / Fall Of The Sith Empire tale which was a pile of crap. Alternatively, you should check them out. Perhaps a library raid maybe.

    As for me copying you: Only in your mind my young padawan! Dead cool Hitchiker's Guide ref in your post too! :)

    Jedi Ben
  16. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I read the last two books of KJA's JAT and I really disliked his writing. [face_plain]

    I also heard that the dialogue in his Star Wars comics is crap, though the artwork is pretty good.

  17. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Ben: yeah, normally I don't listen to what other people say, but I was leaning towards not buying them anyway, because at the time I was hard up for cash. Now that that is no longer a problem, the thought had never really occured to me to go back and read them again. If they are in TPB form, though, I could see purchasing them.

    As for me copying you: Only in your mind my young padawan! Dead cool Hitchiker's Guide ref in your post too!

    I live a whole, neat fantasy world in my mind. :D

    Hitchiker's Guide is excellent. Too bad we'll never see the entirety of that last book...
  18. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Saw another new thread witht this topic, so UP!
  19. valenthyne_falfalla Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    ok, i'll tell a theory that i have about the force itself. please feel free to contradict me for it will not bother me at all.. so here it goes

    let's see the force itself as an entire entity, which is made of emotions that all living thing have. there are emotions, like compassion, which ara positive ones, but there are others, like hate, that are negative. i belive jedi drae their power on the positive emotions, as the sith draws their from the negative.

    ok that was it, but here is a question in which i cant seem to come up with an answer: are force "users", who want to increase their powers, sith?

    and for the balancing the force thing, i wrote mine in another thread, so i'am going to look for it and put it up here so it'll be easier for all fo you to see
  20. valenthyne_falfalla Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    i found!
    so here it is:

    maybe anakin was the "chosen one" but luke interupted this..
    maybe "balancing the force" meant the elimination of both the light and the dark sides of the force
    yoda and obi-wan would have more likely died if it wasn't for luke's intervention and meeting kenobi in behalf of artoo's message both jedi would have died without training a future generation of jedi
    anakin, now as vader (as i think) wouldn't have train anyone else, and i think palapatine would have found taking another force "user" non-important now that he doesn't need a "lackey" to go around the galaxy doing his bidings
    meaning that both sides will be extinct, if a may say so myself. balance would have been restore to the universe making everyone "equals". without sith and jedi in the universe, there will be no manipulation of the weak-minded...so no more "advantages" in governing as sidious did
    but with luke's appearing,all of the sudden,change it all
  21. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    With the release of Traitor comes a new round of questions pertaining to the Force. Though I haven't completed the novel as yet, I feel that this thread will be related to the topics on all Traitor readers' minds, which is why I am upping it. :)


    Traitor Spoiler:




















    Vergere tells Jacen that there is no dark side. This is what I have been believing ever since my first EU novel, Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. The Force is too intricate, too elaborate to be divided into simple, banal sects, as contemplated by Darth Sidious in the mentioned book.

    Vergere informs Jacen that the dark side is born of the individual, not of the Force. This, I believe.
    However, does this revelation possess a sacriligious quality when comparing it to Lucas's film versions of Star Wars? :confused:















  22. Major_Derek_Klivian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    star 2
    Traitor Spoilers in short order******




















    The Force is too intricate, too elaborate to be divided into simple, banal sects, as contemplated by Darth Sidious in the mentioned book.


    Just b/c the Force is beyond comprehension on an absolute level, within the spectrum that sentients can perceive there still exists good and evil. Humans can't see the infinite spectrums of light, but we can still perceive on what end the darker is and what end the lighter is. Just b/c humans are omnescient doesn't mean we can't understand the basics of good and evil.

    Furthermore, Darth Sidious is the most evil and ruthless man ever since Xim the Despot. He may only be rationalizing his evil by claiming there is no evil. It's been done before.
  23. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    I posted this in another thread it's probably applicable here:

    This is the force as it is stated in the Guide to star wars 3rd edition,

    "The force has two sides-light and dark. The lightside bestows great knowledge, peace, and serenity. The darkside is filled with anger, fear, and agression. Both sides of the force are are part of the natural order; one side life affirming, the other destructive."

    This was in the star wars encyclopedia as well, though a bit longer.

    What about the power used by callista, exar kun, and palpatine to keep their spirits from crossing over to their respective afterlives? Life transfer, is said to be,

    "The key to immortality itself, this one of the most difficult and evil of all darkside powers." (dark empire sourcebook, and tales of the jedi companion.)

    It is a power from the darkside, that corrupts the soul of the user each time it is used. It may not put them over the first time it is used but in repeated use they will end up in the darkside, and when they die they will end up going to the darkside afterlife.

    Callista who had used the power twice once to live inside of a computer and second to take over a new body. She had lost her touch to the lightside because the darkside power she had used to stay alive. This is why it is commented in dark saber that she could touch the force through the darkside, but could no longer touch the lightside.

    The darkside sourcebook which is a book all about the nature of the darkside, states,

    "The lightside and the darkside are always present, constantly struggling for balance in the galaxy, within the individual beings." "Day and night, life and death, light and dark- each pair represents a different kind of balance. As a part of the natural order, the Force follows the same rules." "Both sides exist simultaneously, but not always in balance. Sometimes the light side has predominance; at other times the dark side dominates. When balance tips too far in any direction conflict useally results. In conflict the darkside flourishes." pg 6, and it goes on in the book. As we know it is anakin that was supposed to bring "balance" to the force, but had went towards the dark side of the force before coming back to the light, and making it to the jedi afterlife.

    So yes there is a darkside, and there is a lightside, vergere's teaching is dangerous because it makes it easier for people to step off the path of light as they don't know they may be traveling down the wrong path. This is why the jedi banned the teaching when people started using it back in the prequel times because of it's danger, read rogue planet(I'll find the quotes as soon as I have the time).

    But the matter is vergere view is the not the correct view and one that was a herasy to the order over the ages, and one that ignores the prophecy of the chosen one.
  24. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I compare the Force to Taoism's Way. To simplify things, let's use Anakin Solo's analogy and say that the Force is a tool.

    A tool can't be evil. A hammer is a hammer. Someone can pick that hammer up to fix something, or they can use it to destroy something. It's up to the individual. The choice is the individual's to make.
    The hammer isn't going to persuade anyone into doing anything.

    That's how I see it...though in a very simplified way. :)
  25. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.