MOD The OFFICIAL Comments, Complaints, and Suggestions Thread-(*Currently Discussing: Holiday Season*)

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Rox, May 31, 2002.

Moderators: Corellian_Outrider
  1. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    The object of this thread is to basically say what you think we need to do in the forum. We've had ideas posted in several threads, we need a place to keep everything in one thread.

    Things that are up in the air right now:

    1. Official Tutorial threads. What topics do we need to cover? We already have the lightsaber thread, how about a figure drawing one or coloring in Photshop or paint for newbies.

    2. Fan Art Challenge. Already started and onto good things.

    3. A new banner for this forum. I'd like to see everyone come up with an entry. Then we'll vote on the best one. Once the banner is picked we should come up with a custom style sheet to match it.

    4. Featured Artist. Once a month I think we should try and feature one of the artists from the forum and have them tell alittle about themself. Like what medium they like to use, etc..

    5. A dedicated Mod. There aren't going to be any changes at the moment, sorry you're stuck with me. :p This forum isn't like most forums where you need to have threads locked in it everyday or posts edited because of bad content. This place is more of a casual forum. If you ever have a problem most of the time I'm on. Whether I'm at my internshipp or just on my PC at home.

    These ideas are just a starting point. Once we get the ball rolling we can get this place moving on all 6 cylinders. What do you all think? If you ever need anything there are a couple of ways to get a hold of me.

    Forum Mod: Corellian_Outrider
    -via PM

  2. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Good idea. Thanks for responding to the various discussions going on. :D

    -Otis
  3. ADONIAH32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    I have been waiting for this thread for...I don't know how long :D Are you ready??

    1) Yes, we seriously need tutorial threads. I would focus on coloring in photoshop along with drawing techniques. Perhaps some of the more unique effects for digital artists that can be accomplished in Photoshop.

    2) Great idea that I think we had planned in the thread I started. It's a good way to bring together the fan artists. Who will run it, however? I would like to collaborate on running this, that is assuming, of course, that it is run by a member(s).

    3) Okay, here's where a problem is. I am assuming that this banner would match the one in the actual Fan Art museum. Well, there's the problem. I have already designed a banner for the museum and I am now in collaboration with Carter and Britany in getting it up onto the site. I don't think it's fair, assuming the banner here and there would be shared, to make me throw that banner out.

    As it is the banner itself has already been approved by Carter and Britany. We are just adding some touch ups to it and changing a few things around. So I don't know what you want to do for this...

    4) Good idea. It would really allow us to get to know one another.

    5) Ahhhh, now to my big issue that I have been fighting for ;) I shall make this diatribe short (or try to). Earlier I said that people didn't understand where I was coming from; hopefully this will clear things up. This is basically a combinations of several things I have written about the issue:

    Okay, I see where you are coming from on this, but try to understand my point of view. With an official moderator for Fan Art we could start official "How To" threads and things along those lines. I mean, if you look at any mod started thread, 90% of the time they get the most replies. Plus, I think people (non-artisan people I should clarify), would feel more comfortable posting because a mod had started the thread.

    Furthermore, I, to a certain extent, oppose another forum mod posting notification threads. It would make Fan Artists look odd if we had the AOTC mod post something about Fan Art. By having an official moderator a thread could be started in those forums by the mod for Fan Art. It would make us look better (having our OWN representative) and not only that, but, like I said, it would probably get more attention.

    And thirdly, instead of me having to PM the mods every time I wanted a notfication thread, the official mod for Fan Art could discuss it in administration and set up a concrete date and format with much more ease than one would having to PM everyone.

    This is how I see it. I think that Fan Art does need a moderator. I think far too often we have assumed that moderator implies "one who takes care of unwanted posts". IMO, moderators are more of representatives than 'janitors for posts'. Moderators are supposed to set an example and represent their forum. Fan Art definately needs a representative. Sure, you have Rox and MarchSWGirl (or whatever the username is) who say they mod, but they are official mods elsewhere. We have no official, dedicated, concrete moderator for Fan Art, and I already stated why we need one.

    And another thing, before I conclude. I noticed that a news story on tf.n was about some artist and his work. Yet, there was not ONE mention of OUR fan art gallery! See what I mean?!
  4. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6


    2) Great idea that I think we had planned in the thread I started. It's a good way to bring together the fan artists. Who will run it, however? I would like to collaborate on running this, that is assuming, of course, that it is run by a member(s).

    Just so we are straight on this, the Fan Art challenge is not a contest. We come up with an idea, everyone who wants to then makes an entry. We're not competeing to see who the best would be. It's just a way to get more people to show off thier work.

    3) Okay, here's where a problem is. I am assuming that this banner would match the one in the actual Fan Art museum. Well, there's the problem. I have already designed a banner for the museum and I am now in collaboration with Carter and Britany in getting it up onto the site. I don't think it's fair, assuming the banner here and there would be shared, to make me throw that banner out.

    As it is the banner itself has already been approved by Carter and Britany. We are just adding some touch ups to it and changing a few things around. So I don't know what you want to do for this...


    This banner would be totally seperate from the one on the TFN's website. This will be a contest I will officially announce within the next couple of day.

    Okay, I see where you are coming from on this, but try to understand my point of view. With an official moderator for Fan Art we could start official "How To" threads and things along those lines. I mean, if you look at any mod started thread, 90% of the time they get the most replies. Plus, I think people (non-artisan people I should clarify), would feel more comfortable posting because a mod had started the thread.

    Let me clear this up now. I am taking lead here. Whether you realize it or not. Yes I moderate in other forums but that has nothing to do with anything here.

    Furthermore, I, to a certain extent, oppose another forum mod posting notification threads. It would make Fan Artists look odd if we had the AOTC mod post something about Fan Art. By having an official moderator a thread could be started in those forums by the mod for Fan Art. It would make us look better (having our OWN representative) and not only that, but, like I said, it would probably get more attention.

    You are going to have to elaborate on these notification threads. What are you proposing, it's really vague.
  5. Mojomoe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2002
    star 1
    Alright, now we're getting somewhere!

    I am intrigued - what is this banner of which you speak?

    Is it the TF.N FanArt banner? (Sounds like it isn't, but just checking...)

    Is it this one?

    [image=http://www1.theforce.net/JC/images/Spring_2002/reply_grfx.jpg]

    Or this one?

    [image=http://www1.theforce.net/JC/images/Spring_2002/banner.jpg]

    I'd be quite interested in making a submission for this.

    My only problem is that a contest like this for a banner would [could] be counter-productive to our friendly, non-exclusive community environment. I may be just as paranoid as the Baroness here, but we're on the verge of something extraordinary - a complete (but open-ended) community of Star Wars Fan Artists associated with the *largest* unofficial Star Wars site on the internet - we have the chance to really make a name for ourselves and our Fan Art Community!

    Off on a tangent for a moment, perhaps what we need is a *dedicated* Fan Art Museum for this board - sort of a "Featured Artists," but for the board posters and not TF.N in general. I'm *not* talking about an exclusive museum (keep in mind, I am trying to avoid exclusivity here, folks!) - there would be no prerequisite for being "hung" in this dedicated museum - no post minimum, no registration date required - the artist just needs to be associated with the JC FA Community, which is as simple as posting once and saying "Hi, I'm an artist, and I'm new tro the boards!". *Author's Disclaimer* - I've had a limited amount of sleep, and haven't thought through the intricacies and implications of this idea yet - if it turns people against each other or proves either unwieldy, unwelcome, or unfair, by all means - Veto!*

    Anwyas, where was I...

    Ah, yes! Well, since I both a) like the idea of a personalized banner, and b) don't want to even come _close_ to anything that might cause competition or rejection, how about a pretty little compromise? Everyone who wants to submit take some time and work up a good banner (whichever one it is we're redoing - I'm still a little fuzzy...), we archive, say, the best five, then a sprinkling of .html code, and *POOF*
    ...rotating banner! Every time you load or reload the FanArt board, you get to see a different one of the five different banners from five different artists. That way, not only is everyone happy, but we can also add banners as they are created without holding a new contest and bruising the ego (right, like artists have egos... ;)) of the previous banner-holder. (another option here would be to do a different banner for each major finished piece of work by a FA poster - just a portion of the image and the title of the forum, so it would almost be like being greeted by a random piece of artwork each time. For example, you might open the board one time and be welcomed by Otis' Tauntaun on Hoth image with the "Jedi Council Fan Art" title across it.)

    Hmm... I guess I've taken to long-winded posts here lately. Okay, I'm done!

    Cheers, all!
    -C.
  6. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    I don't think rotating banners is possible but I'll ask.
  7. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Rox, thanks again for addressing these issues/ideas.

    New members . . chime in with your ideas!

    BTW . . what does everyone else think of the points that Rox made in his initial posts? I'll comment myself when I get home tonight. Gotta go pay the bills.

    Up . . :D

    -Otis
  8. Britany TFN Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 1

    Rox wrote ...
    3. A new banner for this forum. I'd like to see everyone come up with an entry. Then we'll vote on the best one. Once the banner is picked we should come up with a custom style sheet to match it.
    Sounds good to me :). I have no idea what you guys will come up with, but the only thing I suggest is that you avoid creating a a banner that uses a combination of other artists' artwork.


    ADONIAH32 wrote ...
    3) Okay, here's where a problem is. I am assuming that this banner would match the one in the actual Fan Art museum. Well, there's the problem. I have already designed a banner for the museum and I am now in collaboration with Carter and Britany in getting it up onto the site. I don't think it's fair, assuming the banner here and there would be shared, to make me throw that banner out.

    As it is the banner itself has already been approved by Carter and Britany. We are just adding some touch ups to it and changing a few things around. So I don't know what you want to do for this...
    We won't be using the banner you created for the Fan Art Museum as there are too many copyright issues involved. Even if you could get everyone's permission, there's always the chance that any one of those artists could demand that the banner be removed at some time in the future, which I'd like to avoid. For now the Museum banner will remain.

  9. ADONIAH32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
  10. TheBalinakaBaroness Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2002
    star 4
    Ready for this? Here are my thoughts, humble though they may be...

    1. Official Tutorial threads.
    I think a Photoshop thread would be really helpful. I don't know if it would end up needing to be more than one thread, but it would be nice to have a place to just ask Photoshop advice, or specific questions, share tips you think are helpful. I guess that could all be in one big Photoshop Helpdesk or something like that....

    2. Fan Art Challenge.
    From Adoniah: Who will run it, however? I think it's fairly settled that it's not a competition. I don't understand the need to have someone "run" it - it's started and hopefully will just keep going. I figure I'll bump it up from time to time to remind people of deadlines, but anyone is free to do that, not just me. I also feel that everyone who posts in there should get at least one comment from someone, anyone, just so they don't feel ignored.

    But my big question for the Art Challenge is about the Topics. I can make up Topics just fine, but I do think this is an area that should be collaborative. However, there needs to be a plan so it's not chaotic and that there is a decisive Topic ready for every Friday. One idea I had, that wouldn't clutter up the thread, is people could PM me possible topics, I'll keep a running list, and just pick one every week. I don't want people to think the Art Challenge is "mine" but I don't mind taking care of it. I don't want to overstep my bounds, but I'm not really sure where that line is. Is this something Rox should be doing? Maybe Adoniah was right after all, and someone does need to run it.... What do y'all think?

    3. A new banner for this forum.
    I guess I don't really have any strong feeling about this, but one idea, to avoid competition, is for Rox to just pick someone, and then we all critique it to death, make comments, suggestions, and the banner-maker can include/not include those comments. That might not work... but just trying to come up with ideas....

    4. Featured Artist.
    I like this idea a lot. One suggestion I have: the community has nothing to do with selecting who the monthly artist is. I think Rox should decide this on his own (or with Mar17swgirl). My reasoning behind this - in the spirit of community, I don't want to see this devolve into a popularity contest. I would trust Rox's judgement in this.

    5. A dedicated Mod.
    I guess I just don't see where Adoniah is coming from with this one. I think Rox is doing fine. Things are picking up, changes are being made, and we'll see them grow over time. I think in the past two days there have been more posts in here than in the past month!

    a *dedicated* Fan Art Museum
    Hey, Mojomoe, could you explain this a little more? I'm not quite sure what you mean, or how this would work...

    So that's all my blabbing. Hope I was helpful....
    ~Baroness
  11. ADONIAH32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    I never meant it to be taken as though I were implying it were a contest. I simply was wondering who would be arranging the topics, but you just answered that :)

    And as for the mod issue, I am tired of trying to explain it, as no one really understands my point of view on this and Rox is just getting upset...........

    And about the banner, well, now that I find out the banner I made over two weeks won't even be used...my day is completely ruined. And I DO NOT like the idea of a competitive banner making contest. I COMPLETELY oppose it. As do I oppose the idea of Rox choosing someone to do it.
  12. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    The Mighty Baroness once again speaks her mind and manages to speak for ME as well.

    Nicely done Baroness.

    Oh, and I see no problem with you "running" the Weekly Challenge. You habe a wonderful persoanlity that I feel is totally appropriate for the thread. Plus . . you're chock-full-o-talent, which I think is apparant to everyone here. Your guiding hand should do nicely. Of course that doesn't proclude you from handing off the duties if you need to or feel like it.

    :D

    ADONIAH32-

    "I DO NOT like the idea of a competitive banner making contest. I COMPLETELY oppose it."

    Why, specifically?

    "As do I oppose the idea of Rox choosing someone to do it."

    Again, why?

    As a moderator, isn't that his decision (or at least his and the other moderators) choice?

    -Otis
  13. Britany TFN Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 1

    And as for the mod issue, I am tired of trying to explain it, as no one really understands my point of view on this and Rox is just getting upset...........
    It has been discussed by other Mods and some of the users of this Forum, and the overwhelming consencus is that this board does not need a dedicated Mod. Rox is helping to make the glorious vision you have the Fan Art Forum happen. That's a good thing :)

    I DO NOT like the idea of a competitive banner making contest. I COMPLETELY oppose it. As do I oppose the idea of Rox choosing someone to do it.
    Rox is just throwing around ideas. Everyone seems to have reservations about a contest, but maybe he means that it be thrown open to everyone on the JC ?[face_plain]

  14. Cheveyo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 5
    Good morning, Everyone!
    You're likely to see me here in the AM / early PM for a while (up with the chickens these days!!). If I miss you, hope you have a good day. That being said:

    RE: 1) Official Tutorial Threads, Great idea, I'm 100% behind it.

    RE: 2) Fan Art Challenge. Baroness, you sound politely hesitant to manage the Weekly Challenge, but I think it is wise to divide up the "running" of forums that "need" to be "run" (can you just imagine me standing in front of you all, looking like a politician, making "quotation marks" in the air?! [face_laugh]) For one person to run all of the threads that need constant management is simply not possible, especially when the Fan Art forum really kicks into high gear. Bottom line--yes there is one--I'm all for you "running" with the Weekly Challenge thread. ;)

    RE: 3) New Banner. Again, I'm very much behind this idea. I also don't see a problem with it being a "juried" submission (hear I go with the quotes again). By that, I mean to have everyone interested submit their work. Perhaps then it could be put to popular vote on the forums to avoid any undue accusations of favoritism. That being said, I personally don't mind if the mods pick the final, or if they pick a specific artist to design it. Whatever works for the boards. Can I BE any more agreeable?!?! ;)

    RE: 4) Featured Artist. Great idea, and I agree with the Baroness on this one, as well--the community at large should not be involved in the choosing of the weekly feature. Fairness (and logic) would dictate that Rox (and possibly any other mods associated with the Art Forum) choose either at random or from a list of known artists on the board. We don't need a popularity contest, because we all know I would win. ;) (JUST KIDDING! No flaming pm's please !!)

    RE: 5) Dedicated Mod. Just about everyone already knows my stand on this, so I shant be redundant. Besides, thankfully, it sounds like it's a closed issue.

    "And that's all I have to say about that."

  15. Jabachile Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2001
    star 4
    Britany- I really do think we do need a dedicated mod. More and more people are coming, and we need someone who knows and is familiar with everyone.

    Quite frankly, Rox hasn't posted here in months until this week.
  16. ADONIAH32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    I just don't get why we need to turn the banner into a contest? I don't know, but most people are opposed to contests here anyway, I think mainly because ... I'm not sure why, but I don't like the idea because I wouldn't like all sorts of people making good banners and then having them rejected.

    As for the mod issue, if you want me to explain MY point of view on this...then PM me because I refuse to publicly discuss it any further.
  17. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    "Quite frankly, Rox hasn't posted here in months until this week."

    Well, he's certainly been attentive as of late.

    And in all fairness, this place was DEAD before.

    -Otis
  18. ADONIAH32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    Dead before I started trying to revive the place, IMO.
  19. Britany TFN Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 1

    What happened to the ultra friendly atmosphere this place has a reputation for :D

  20. Mojomoe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2002
    star 1
    Come on, Ad - we don't need that. Please - I *know* it's difficult for artists to keep their egos out of their work, especially when comparing pieces (this isn't sarcasm - I'm serious, friend. For many artists, our work *is* our offspring), but I truly don't want to see this degenerate into back-patting and who's-done-more-for-the-boards. I'm not in *any* way diminishing your contributions, but neither will I toss aside those of the artists around whom this forum revolves.

    Please believe me, I intend no hard feelings at all - merely that I believe that this forum has become something extraordinary, and I would hate to see it brake down into the mediocre tripe-flinging that so many others fall victim to, which is an easy next step when the comments become anywhere near heated or personal.

    Cheers and well-wishings,
    -C.
  21. Cheveyo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 5
    What, are you running for election, ADONIAH? We've already patted you on the back many times for your help in jumpstarting this place.

    Yes, it was slow before. But I can't say that it was a "bad" place within the JC. It was different. We didn't have arguments like they do in other forums, that is for certain.

    EDIT: Britany, that's exactly what I was thinking! :)
  22. ADONIAH32 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2002
    star 4
    AH!!!!! Someone shoot me through the head!!

    I DON'T want to be a MOD! I want to change the forum!! My dream was the have the whole first page with current posts, but it won't happen because of reasons that i don't feel I should discuss here.

    And stop bashing me! I think you owe a lot to me for getting more people to come. If it weren't for me I don't think we would have seen those newbies recently.

    I liked this place, this board...this Fan Art board until I was bashed and harassed by you about my designs. Then these things happen. How am I to enjoy artwork when I am constantly and blatently harassed by my own "friends" of art?! I can't!! And then I get harassed by the moderator and another member about my actions?

    Let's get something straight. I am not trying to BE A MOD or OWN THE FORUM! I am trying to help, but as usual everything is backfiring on me. Okay? I can't work to make this a better place with Rox...I just can't. He was the only one who dug into source code to try and substantiate that I had copied sites and what not. They guy doesn't like me! I might as well leave if I can't contribute without having someone stick their nose into my work as far as Rox did.

    well, that's my complaint for the day.
  23. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Moving on . .

    I'd like to suggest a few *Official* Threads. I've already PM'd Rox about one of them, but I'd like to see how others feel.

    -An *Official* Influences Thread: To discuss (what else?) artistic influences.

    -An *Official* Tools & Techniques Thread: I know there is already a Photoshop thread, but let's face it, most digital artists use PS . . it's the industry standard. This other thread would allow other tools and techniques to be discussed.

    -An *Official* Fan-To-Pro Thread: (or some other, better title). This would be a place to discuss moving from amateur to professional, for those who have the desire. Some of us have experience in that area that would be useful for those of us who are, unfortunately, still just wannabes. :D

    Well . . ?

    -Otis
  24. Britany TFN Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 1

    Otis, sounds good to me :)

  25. Jabachile Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2001
    star 4
    For the record, I wasn't attacking anyone- I'm just saying what I've observed ;)

    Otis- great ideas! I especially love the influence thread. Can I start that one up? :)
Moderators: Corellian_Outrider