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MOD The OFFICIAL Comments, Complaints, and Suggestions Thread-(*Currently Discussing: Holiday Season*)

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Rox, May 31, 2002.

Moderators: Corellian_Outrider
  1. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    Wow that would be awesome if you used my idea! and thankx for the feedback on it. Although I agree with wicktone, if you look at the requests long enough you'll notice theres a heck of a lot of em', but hey if we try we'll know for sure, right? :)
    -Arsnl
  2. ICKessler Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Perhaps it would be helpful to know which pieces are still being waited on by the requesters? Some of those older requests for role-playing character portraits are years old, and it makes me wonder if the original requester is even interested anymore.

    Maybe a show of support for their request would help to get it picked up, and if they don't show any more interest in their request after say, six months, you could pull it? It would be helpful to both parties if a request doesn't get picked up after say, a month, perhaps the person ought to be encouraged to reword their request, to include more (or fewer) details, or specific shots or angles they want, to make it easier for the artists.

    Also limit requests to one piece at a time?

  3. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    That is a very good idea about seeing what requesters are still interested. I think before we do the trial run, a new thread should be made to see if anyone is still interested. I'm sure this will eliminate quite a few requests from the list.

    In another thread, artists that are interested in doing requests can sign up with their highpoints and interests. Although, with this method, I'm not sure if you want to still keep all requests public or just list the request and the person filling it as they come.

    I also like the idea to only have one request per artist. I know from experience that once things start to build up, it can get very stressful. Once an artist agrees to fill a request, they can PM me so I can update the first page. Once the artist completes the request, their name can be thrown back into the hat.
  4. wicktone Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 3
    Sounds like this will be a pretty big undertaking to get ready for. Cheers to you, Han! We all appreciate the hard work you put into this place.
  5. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    Yea, thanks for working so hard Han!
    Dunno what we'd do with out you.lol
    -Arsnl
  6. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Aww...thanks guys! [face_blush]

    Anyway, some of you may have noticed that I haven't updated the request threads for quite sometime. This is in preparation for the switch over and I should be opening a thread soon to get a list of artists that are interested. Once the final list is up, finalized and all old requests wiped away, the old request threads will be locked for the time being and unsticked until the trial run is over. If this new method works better than the old way, the current request threads will be gone for good.

    I was also thinking about putting a new rule into effect around the same time the trial starts regarding links. Would it be alright with everyone if all artwork must be posted using links beginning with the trial run of the request threads? I am also beginning to get frustrated with loading times in some threads that are image heavy.
  7. wicktone Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2003
    star 3
    It will be great to see something happening with the request system. And linking to images is cool with me.
  8. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Tonight Tom Hodges, Cat Staggs and I received a PM from a forum member swearing at us and calling us "rude" because of out posts in this thread:

    http://boards.theforce.net/Fan_Art/b10020/16755243/?59

    I won't say who sent the PM, that's not the point. But I would like to respond to the PM so all can read what I have to say and also to address a real problem with the internet and the proliferation of photo-editing software.

    Tom, Cat and I have seen our fair share of people taking artwork or images created by artists or photographers and claiming them as their own. It's one of the downsides of the internet and being an artists . . . there are dishonest people out there who have no problem using your work for their own devices. Case in point . . . this thread:

    http://boards.theforce.net/Fan_Art/b10020/20536867/?3

    Now, the images being used in the thread the PM referred to were (apparently) screen shots, promo images and photos, but they were someone else's images nonetheless. Taking a photo and applying a filter to it using easily downloadable photo-editing software is, in my opinion, no different than taking someone else's drawing or painting and slapping your own signature on it. And it reflects even more poorly when the artist in question won't admit to the techniques being used.

    It happens all the time on the internet on various sites, and it's simply dishonest.

    I think it's terrible that the person who sent us the PM thinks that demanding proof of ownership for questionable images is worse than the act of claiming something is your own creation when it's not.

    The three of us put our own work out there for all to see, and have for years. Our work is clearly our own and we would each have no problem showing proof that this is the case.

    I think the artists displaying their artwork in this forum need to take this to heart . . . if you are passing off someone else's work as your own, you will be called to the mat and challenged to show proof of ownership. If you cannot or will not, well . . . at that point if it looks, acts, and quacks like a fake duck, then it's a fake duck.

    This is not being rude, this is simply being intellectually and artistically honest.

    Thank you.

    -Otis
  9. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    So what are you saying here? People who use digital means to alter photos should just hang it up because it's not real art anyway? We have no right to post it here and then have the audacity to call it "art"?
  10. gatodama LFL Artist

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
    Quite frankly, I feel the PM was way out of line. We in no way were attacking the artist. If he did not hear it here, he would have heard it somwhere else.

    If anyone were to take the art in question to a company, and it could be the best presentation ever, they would be turned around and shown outor told the same thing tha twas said in the thread. It need more and needs to be more original. Also with a questionable method and the denying of the obvious, a case in your favor, it does not make.

    The critique that was given byt Tom, Otis and myself was just that....a critque. We were challenging the artist to go further, to give more, really make some magic. You can get all the kudos and have your ego bloated, but until you are really sat down and challeged to expand YOUR skills, the art will always fall short. Kudos are nice and the occasional ego stroking needs to happen, but you will learn far more about you abilities from constructive critisisum.

    If crits are not wanted in this forum so be it. But the artist will be the one to suffer as they are a necessary evil in this profession. You have to develope a very, very thick skin, and you have to be able to take the constructive critisium and use it to your advantage. To feel so offended that you are giving up on your art because you are challenged to better it, is just, for lack of a better word, immature. (Not exactly the word I wanted to use, but close enough)

    Being an artist, which he has said he wants to be, is an ever growing and developing process. It is most definatly not all sunshine and roses. It is a brutal business. I want him to succed, I really do, but he will need to grow and develope his OWN style and not reley so much on someone elses. That is all that we were saying.

  11. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Taking a photo, applying a filter and then claiming it was hand drawn/painted is dishonest.

    Bottom line . . . be completely up front about the techniques used in creating your imagery.

    -Otis
  12. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    He said he didn't do that. It's too much of a stretch to believe him?
  13. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    He was asked to show proof of the techniques he used, or show some artwork not based on known imagery. It's too much to expect an artist do that if their claims are true?

    Remember, he's the one who made the claims, challenges were made, he said he'd prove it, failed to do so, then closed the thread himelf when he was questioned again.

    I think questioning people about their work is a good thing sometimes.

    Case in point: http://boards.theforce.net/Fan_Art/b10020/20536867/?3

    This is an example of what I'm talking about. And it happens all the time. And sometimes, the thieves make money off it. Appalling.

    Challenging people on techniques used keeps people honest. If they can prove the the work they claim is theirs is really theirs, so much the better. But there is nothing wrong with making sure people are being honest in an age when being digitally dishonest is so easy.

    This forum is unique, it's special, and it only works if people are truthful about the work being displayed.

    -Otis
  14. gatodama LFL Artist

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
    he actually did.


    either he has the most acurate eye in the free world (which would be impossiblet to this degree) an should be in an exhibit somewhere, or he is not doing what he claims....
  15. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    The sad part is, that your constructive critcism, no matter how good an intention, discouraged him to the point of quitting.

    -Arsnl
  16. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    If he was being honest about his methods, then yes. It's sad. If he really is that talented, he needs thicker skin and the guts to prove detractors wrong.

    If he wasn't being honest, then what really happened was that he ran away because he was "outed".

    The bottom line is, if you're being honest about the work being shown, you have nothing to hide and everything to prove. He should have shut us up good if he had nothing to hide. I for one would have been pleased to have been proven wrong.

    -Otis
  17. gatodama LFL Artist

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
  18. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
    I do nearly the same thing, but apparently none of you have gathered torches and pitchforks and come after me yet. What's the difference?
  19. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    I see, well, In that case I agree with you. Its too bad that he couldn't have just said that he may use filters, b/c then that would be really great filter work.

    I guess thats it on this case eh?
  20. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4


    Do you claim that the work is actually hand painted?

    If not, then that's the difference. The bottom line is how you present the final product.

    HONESTY.

    Is that such a hard concept to adhere to when presenting your work? In my opinion, this forum DEPENDS on truthful representation.

    The minute we allow people to get away with lying about their work because we don't want to hurt their feelings is the day this forum loses any relevance it once had. I mean, why not just post a Drew Struzan poster that has been run through a filter and call it your own at that point?

    -Otis
  21. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    I don't doubt for a second that his work is someone elses, i'm simply agreeing with you, that yes honesty is definetly the best policy.

    And looking at it like an art tragedy, that he didn't just say it was filter work, b/c then it would've been considered good filter work, instead of dishonest art.
  22. gatodama LFL Artist

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
    come on guys and gals.....

    you did not claim you painted it by hand using a wacom in corel painter, on a blank canvas, only using a reference image.

    that is the difference.

  23. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    DOTF, when I took a couple of your pic sand combined them to make this
    http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/darth_arsnl/detail?.dir=2ffa&.dnm=1263.jpg&.src=ph
    I said I used photoshop- okay well i'm pretty sure I said it, if not I'll go and make sure Its stated- I don't have the best memory...

  24. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Well, I'll be honest . . . I think there should be a separate forum for photo-manipulation and collage. I've thought that since my days as the mod of the fan art forum.

    But this isn't about the validity of photo-manipulation as art or not. It's about honestly representing your work and methods.

    Period.

    -Otis
  25. Darth_ArsnL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 2
    And I couldn't agree more.
Moderators: Corellian_Outrider