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The Official Dark Nest I: The Joiner King Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The2ndQuest , Jun 26, 2005.

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  1. TheClam

    TheClam Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2005
    Yeah, I uh, resigned up just to talk/complain about this book.

    I also know that it may not be wise to say such words in a Star Wars fan forum, but dudes, on a whole, though I would say it was a decent read, based upon other books in the EU that I've enjoyed, I did not dig this book. It seemed to me it took all the stuff that was in the NJO series that I didn't like, such as, the CF'ing of the force, the random unresolved issues, and so on.

    First, I hate this 'The Dark side is ok' thing, yeah, it's been explained, but I don't like it, it's just akward to me. I also don't like the way Jacen acted, it seems he spent all the time training his ability to be super powerful, without actually helping anyone out.

    Second, and this goes more towards this book, the whole, R2's secret message thing. In my opinion, that should have been it's own story, and by that I mean it should have been in it's own book. Was it really necessary to have Luke discover a message that's been in his possesion for about thirty years between his visits to the nest and his academy?

    Oh yeah, Jaina and Zekk, yeah, it was cute back in the Young Jedi Knights series, but come on, let's stop playing this out where we have characters jumping romantic interest as they change authors, this is probably why Zahn married Luke to Mara. It was annoying having characters who couldn't go 'forward' in development. That was the only thing that bummed me out about the Unifying Force, not having Jaina and Fel get married, it would have been great to have all the characters a big happy family (Wedge related to Luke) but now we're pulling her back to a character I stopped caring about near a decade ago. Tenel Ka and Jacen seemed alright to me, they had more of a relationship then Zekk and Jaina had, and, well, I thought Tenel Ka was a better character anyway. It seems Denning was trying to make a mark like Zahn did. I mean, how many things were going on in this book? Jaina and Zekk, Leia wanting to be a full Jedi, Ben shutting off to the force, the Joiners, the message with Kenobi and Padme that seemed completely forced in... Any more?

    I dunno, to me the books used to seem more 'fun'. The NJO presented a nice feeling of how dark a war would actually be, but I don't think it needs to be taken any further, but that's what this book did to me. I thought it was a ok read, but as apart of the EU, I wasn't digging it.
     
  2. jedi_master326

    jedi_master326 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2005
    I know what you mean. While I did enjoy R2's messages, it seemed a little forced in, and sort of random. I also think that Tenel Ka and Jacen would be great, and so would Jaina and Jag. This book for me was probably a 6.5 out of 10. I'm pretty sure the next one will be better, though. Hey, is Denning writing the whole Dark Nest trilogy?
     
  3. Zebra3

    Zebra3 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 28, 2004
    Yes.
     
  4. jedimasterkipdurron

    jedimasterkipdurron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Yeah, authors don't usually switch off on trilogies.
     
  5. Kudzu

    Kudzu Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Query: Will the TF.N review for TJK ever be made?
     
  6. Teegirloo

    Teegirloo Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    Probably after the trilogy is overo_O
     
  7. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    They should review comic TPBs, so I wouldn't have needed to ask a million questions once upon a long time ago.
     
  8. Card_Dreamer

    Card_Dreamer Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    After reading the book carefully, I can justify most of the character changes I see (meaning, I understand where they're coming from). But I still cannot understand how Mara became stupid...

    "Blink code? IMPERIAL Blink code?" What? All those years as emperor's hand start fading away?

    I don't like how the Jedi are shaping up based on the new Force view, but I admit it's making one interesting a read to me. At least Luke is waking up.

    I'm surprised Mara didn't use the Force Lightning and go "W00t! My husband looks like Palpatine and I'm using the dark powers again, I feel like I've come home!"

    Oh, and if one more person says "I don't like this 'no dark side' view", I'm slapping them. That ISN'T the Jedi belief, even now. Pay attentionto the stories! It's their view on WHAT THE DARK SIDE IS that's changed. They still believe in A dark Side...

    It's like saying "I believe there's good and evil." Well, define evil and see if someone doesn't differ in that view =P

    Yeesh... =P
     
  9. Jedi_AnakinSolo

    Jedi_AnakinSolo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    i don't know why everyone is complaining about the books, i believe there great. and i agree with card dreamer and what he is saying about the force. their saying that the dark side is in them. not the force. and i disagree with this half love story between jaina and zekk i personally would like to see her with Jag
     
  10. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    C_D: good points!! :D

    One thing about Mara that struck me yesterday is that she was trained fundamentally to operate in what you could call civilized contexts. Her targets, the threats to peace and justice - crimelords and Moffs and Alliance politicians - were corrupt abusers of the very system she was defending, one that in its broad architecture survived from TPM to the NJO. Throughout her life, Coruscant was the world she felt most at home on.

    And somewhere around SbS, she lost all that. A Galaxy where the governing principle is might-is-right capitalism (aka "the Will of the Force") simply isn't her. It's become dressing up, play-acting, or arid rules that are manipulated rather than respected.

    Ben and Luke are all she has left - but if we push the Palpatine analogy, that means that she's become Vader...

    And of course, the same crisis has affected all the other characters, too...

    Discuss!

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
  11. Kudzu

    Kudzu Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    So Mara was born to be a radical anarchist? :p
     
  12. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Or Catherine the Great. Or possibly just Scathach in The Wooking of Emer (blame my unconscious for the typo).

    But not this.

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
  13. Jedi_AnakinSolo

    Jedi_AnakinSolo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    what does everyone think about this new point of view about the force
     
  14. Kudzu

    Kudzu Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    It sucks.
     
  15. Jedi_AnakinSolo

    Jedi_AnakinSolo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    lol well i agree but it has it's uses. a little more chose in powers that can be used but it get's confusing.
     
  16. Rohniss

    Rohniss Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2005
    im confused about it I mean honestly isnt this the same viewpoint that the ancient jedi order that let to the Xendor-split and the creation of the sith?

    I know luke has gaps in the records but you think the 'crons would mention something about that :) or perhaps hes like daddy and so arrogant he doesnt care.
     
  17. Jedi_AnakinSolo

    Jedi_AnakinSolo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2005
    well i would have to disagree because for one he doesn't have a lot of 'crons and is in desperate need of more. plus he just needs more time to figure this out
     
  18. Teegirloo

    Teegirloo Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2005
    It makes for interesting conversation if you agree or not.:D
     
  19. Rohniss

    Rohniss Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 9, 2005
    ^ ill drink to that ^
     
  20. Card_Dreamer

    Card_Dreamer Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    okay, this is only partly related, as in, it's represented in this book too, but it's a general theme I've noticed and i'm kinda getting frustrated about.

    since when did the Noghri become wusses? I mean, Zhan did a great job of making these aliens dangerous, mysterious, I loved them! But ever since, sure, they've been used (which I'm thankful for!) but it seems every threat Leia and Han encounter is able to easily dispose of them. It's blatently killed their rep...

    Thoughts?
     
  21. Kudzu

    Kudzu Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    I was very happy that at least it took two stun bolts to take down Meewalh and Cakhmaim actually came close to subduing Alema before getting headFalconed.
     
  22. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    The first book sets up character interaction and events; subsequent books will develop them further. Tenel is as much to blame, of course, and it all comes back to [face_love]

    It was love that stuffed up Haydon; it's personal feelings that is beginning to stuff up the Jedi of that book. Love for Jacen had Tenel sending that fleet; she wouldn't have done it for me. It's called full circling back to the prequel era. Whether events will repeat again is what the trilogy is all about.

    The plot is solid, the flaws are what makes people; why do people dislike stories that make you think just a wee bit? Does the 112th X-wing hotshot fight still excite that much 2day? What's the incessant craving for the Janson-Hobbs one-line humour?

    The devious storylines are coming up, at last. The Sith Emp survives in some state at the galaxy's outback, Jacen and Leia are all but said to be Joiners, and while people have overlooked the fact that you only need to be in company with a bug to become one, not a prolonged period, you're endless whining has finally brought Katarn a paper presence. So let's abort the "Oooh, Lukie should know better by now" facade. The tides of actual storylines are here.

    Just surf it, and enjoy. Troy and Karen are going head to head, and it's all good.
     
  23. Kudzu

    Kudzu Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2005
    Excellence: Leia? Not quite. Jacen? I bet he is.
     
  24. Mustafar_66

    Mustafar_66 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    Christ on a bike! I understood Excellence! And what's more is that I agree with him!:eek: !:eek:
     
  25. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Kudzu . . . did you miss Thul's last line on p434? He considered the idea of Leia's relocation to be their idea: mutual Joiner thinking. Watch out for Jacen and Leia, not the other known ones.

    Jacen appeared in the affable company of a bug out of the blue, from the last time we saw him. It didn't trigger Uganught squeals in your head, that why was he so knowledgeable and calm with an alien race he hadn't known by his last scene? His fiddling of the brain mapper every time left his own status deliberately unknown. (I'm predicting he's not a Joiner at all, in fact)

    And don't think you need prolonged exposure to the Herbie the Love BUG to transmute to Joiner-class status. Character actions indicated it's a lot faster and who says you must even be aware of it?
     
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