The Official Dark Nest I: The Joiner King Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The2ndQuest, Jun 26, 2005.

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  1. Teegirloo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 6
    I read it again and i agree with you:D
  2. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Oh, and did anyone else see what the real dark nest was in that trilogy? Troy's good, I'll give him that. :p
  3. Teegirloo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 6
    Wasn't there someone in the shadows that they couldn't see?
  4. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Skywalker himself is the dark nest of the trilogy, actually. ;)
  5. Teegirloo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 6
    I wasn't thinking of that i thought it someone else who that's up in the air, how did you come up with conclusion?
  6. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    My review will elaborate, but in a nutshell, Skywalker?s new view of the dark side within you and not a parasentient entity has seen new behaviour in Jedi. They fight aggressively, blast lightning and exhibit a tough of arrogance. As he discovers more of Haydon?s exploits and what emotions lead to the waterfall?s edge that changed the galaxy, he will be forced to reconsider his current mantra.

    Underscoring this is the Killik storyline, a subconsciousness that has darker emotions too. The subconsciousness within us all, that is just like his new Force beliefs. For a nest is a family . . . and the dark nest of his heritage, his father's actions.

    The new Force philosophy is the true Dark Nest of the trilogy.
    A clever intrigue not seen since Cloak of Decept. [:D]
  7. The_Mandalorian_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2004
    star 4
    Hmm, thats really interesting. Where can i read more about the new perspective on the Force?
  8. Teegirloo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 6
    You make a very solid good point:D
  9. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    Yep. I thought the handling of the ways ideas, agendas and attitudes influence and imprison, even enslave people, was excellent - and the Force-meld is a great big red flag. Then again, I'd say it's been latent since at least the second year of the NJO... and a niggling part of me worries that it's Lfl that's the real Dark Nest, not anything in-universe...

    Question: is the reason for the J/J breakup the fact that Jaina has lost her independence to the Jedi hive-mind...?

    Question #2: do we think that at least some of the characters should be doing better than this?

    Question #3: all the Myrkr meld survivors seem to have experienced psychological problems - is this actually, specifically something to do with Anakin going boom?

    - The Imperial Ewok
  10. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    At last, Morphy said, before Anderson pilled himself to wonderland. At last, Zsinj chortled, as his third dinner arrived. At last, I?ll say, when I one day beat Desann?s hardest level . . . D?oh!, Del Rey whimpered, as they inadvertently unleashed a mature book.

    Determined to harness a forgotten realm of Star Wars unseen since quality was stuffed up a Hutt?s backside, Del Rey and all, Denning Big Bangs fan(atic)s with a book that exiles immaturity and excises a galactic creation devoid of endless X-wing fights. And while you?re critical striking the horror of a book that requires 18 Constitution to handle the strain of 1 Intelligence to no avail, the battle alarms Holonet your synapses as you prepare for the greatest threat to the indoctrinated junk you?ve junkied on for years: A book that respects you.

    Respect, in not knowing an ending from the start. For gradual intrigue, for an ending that for once that doesn?t rush, for adult prose and structure. Respect, you can mirror back.

    The sheer audacity of surprising Pell back to you and even hostile sent Sauron?s Mouth grinning anew; the betrayal to readers expecting their beloved movie characters cardboard bland as ever popping off without Aragorn input. Gone with the wind of Slitheen conveyance, your precious Force crap is finally and long last expanded beyond its narrow and rigid RPG-defined view. Lord Hydronium?s dismay, the wizards battled just like they should, and not the comical Matrix wham-bams of Shatterpoint prose either. Wizards were Forceful when needed, and creative in their forms of display to boot. Two wizards dumbed down to take a dozen pages for a droid in Survivor?s Quest?--Thul makes a single gesture for two. Thul should?ve wisdomed his attributes better, I know dp4m, but you can fortitude through this, I know you can. Mission and Zaalbar together forever, as she says!

    This was a book that actually had a plot. A Link to the Past is used between prequel events and today?s Skywalker to Gannon a menace of tomorrow. Skywalker?s new view of the dark side within you and not a parasentient entity which I personally think is absurd has seen new behaviour in Jedi, hasn?t it? They fight aggressively faster ([:D]), blast lightning and exhibit a tough of arrogance. As he discovers more of Haydon?s exploits and what emotions lead to the waterfall?s edge that changed the galaxy, he will be forced to reconsider his current mantra.

    Underscoring this is the Killik storyline, a subconsciousness that has darker emotions too. The subconsciousness within us all, that is just like his new Force beliefs. For a nest is a family . . . and the dark nest of his heritage, his father. It was blind [face_love] too that produced Tenel's fleet and galactic repercussions be damned, just as it was blind love that did Haydon.

    The new Force philosophy is the true Dark Nest of the trilogy, if anyone ascertain that. We?ll see.

    The Fog of War was pervading, wasn?t it? Finally, a book that doesn?t flat-out reveal it?s ending like some naked Wookiee, or unrepentantly midbook like Balance Point. Like Gardens of the Moon, you learnt the situation by the chapter. Worse, you don?t find out info ahead of the Skywalker and Solo groups while he shows a Jaina scene. Outstanding, and what a true book really is. It didn?t take three whole cutscenes to land on Telos from Citadel either, no scene was fluffy to expand the book longer. Just like Cloak of Decept?s unexpected finale, so to was Joiner King.

    While I gisted Sebatyne and Leia weren?t going to die, at no time did their fight scenes ever reveal a lead up to events and how they would end. Unfortunately, I?ve now recognised George Martin?s pattern, thus ruining any duel I can read of his, so it was a welcome relief that Denning wrote his battles to a structured plan, not an un/expected resolution. Compared to what Mara did to Anor in TUF, it was revolting. Not once did anything surprising happen in all those pages. She simply beat him into submission, that was that, and that?s the bland satisfaction y
  11. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I didn't know that Bulwer-Lytton were accepting message board posts as submissions, Excellence, but you certainly have my vote.
  12. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Each entry must consist of a single sentence? Last night a new update spoke briefly of a national rock-sizzors-paper championship. I don't know which is more weird.
  13. razzy1319 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2004
    star 4
    Has anyone asked, wondered or theorized about a clone Thrawn being hive minded to the Joiners?[face_dancing]

    Implications, suggestions or violent reactions?:D
  14. Jedi_AnakinSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2005
    star 4
    ummmmmmmmm let's go with no :cool:
  15. Joser_Kyind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2005
    star 4
    Can someone tell me all of the Jedi that are in this book? unnamed ones, too, please. Just put their species.
  16. Shadowen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 11, 1999
    star 3
    This is gonna seem really silly...

    ...but at first I thought UnuThul was Anakin. Not Solo, either. [face_blush]
  17. Yodas-evil-twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 5
    Ever hear of "Shatterpoint"?
  18. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    Now you started it. Expect something about the arrogance of the writing in response.
  19. jedibarrister Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2001
    On another thread, someone's compared Palpatine's writings (who knew there was a source like that?) with Jacen Solo's actions since Traitor. Eerie how much aline they are. It all starts with Vergere's "epiphany". See she's a Jedi and she voluntarily leaves with the Vong scout team. Decades as their pet is likely to change her. So Luke, trained by Yoda who was a Jedi for nearly the entire golden age, complete ignores all he learned from Yoda and Ben, and ignores what he's taught his students, and 180's his belief system b/c a Jedi from the old school is alive and tells him he's wrong. Qua?

    Why hasn't anyone stopped to think that Vergere was EVIL? Yeah she helped Mara, but that only got her in the good graces of Luke. But she TORTURED Jacen...oh yeah...for his own good and education. Whatever. It seems that if the Jedi slowly transform into the Sith, then Vergere will get the last laugh. I've read a lot of the KotoR comic books. The Dark Jedi left the order b/c they too had a different view of the force and weren't afraid to use the dark side. They only became "Sith" b/c they conquered a planet inhabited by the Sith race. It seems that Vergere has started that schism anew....and likely on purpose. But why? Sour grapes at not having been rescued?
  20. jedibarrister Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2001
    I assumed all the force studies had altered his brain and he didn't want people to know just how abnormal/preternatural he'd become.
  21. jedibarrister Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 30, 2001
    I vaguely recall an episode of TNG where Piccard met a race of people who spoke only in literary references. Diplomacy with this species had proven difficult until Piccard figured out that they WERE speaking in literary references. Excellence's review, to me, was much like that episode of TNG...too many references that I couldn't get.

    As for Thul thinking Leia's idea was his own, the book explained that she had to lead him into thinking it was his own idea for him and the hive to accept the idea.
  22. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Either way, I look forward to seeing what eventuates in the sequel. As for Shatterpoint . . . bah, not even that comical unrealism could beat the sheer innane way I just wacked a formidable foe in Baldur's Gate 2. Happy Hour, for a week!
  23. Yodas-evil-twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 5
    Actually I felt that Shatterpoint had undertones of issues in todays society, such as rascism, civillians caught in a war, and other things.
  24. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Ha! the only racism is to women in Star Wars, which is particuarly apparent in many Zahn books, and blatant in George's movies.

    He went too far, too many times. He'll make a strong point to thugs why attacking him isn't smart, then make another snappy liner which ruins the previous effect by its over emphasis. This repeated emphasising rapes whatever quality the book could have had. Windu observes a disturbing holo or surveys a scene of death. Matt writes how disturbed and shocked and reviled Windu felt. Then he continues to express that sentiment para after para, until Windu wants to reel to his knees with nausea and I'm trying not to laugh the dark lords out of Willy Wonka's paramour.

    Needs to say, the sharp counterpoint of his soft interior to his tougher exterior was way overdone, but that's only one edge of the star.
  25. Jedi_Knight88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2005
    star 3
    Yes! I finally got the book- it only came on the shelves this week in my city's bookstores. I waited so long (and didn't visit the forums for fear of spoilers) that I forgot I changed my password :oops:
    Although I would love to trawl through the entire thread, I've got my final exams coming up- I was wondering if someone could, in a nutshell, summarise the 'for' and 'against' arguments so far?
    Personally, I found the book...odd. I had kind of been expecting the Anakin/Padme revelation but my mouth still dropped open when I read it. Jacen was even more annoying than before, and I was a bit puzzled by Ben's character, as I was looking forward to reading about him the most. At times, I felt like I was re-reading bits of my old Psychology textbook, with things like the corpus callosum, the hypothalamus, etc. and and the Freudian/Jungian theory of the conscious and unconscious mind. Trying to put the Force in scientific terms didn't quite work for me. It also seemed a bit strange for Jaina Solo to be clicking and clacking like a giant insect. I was also surprised by this dangerous 'new understanding' of the Force. Something Dark Side this way comes.

    - I thought that Shatterpoint was basically Vietnam in the Star Wars galaxy.
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