The Official Dark Nest III: The Swarm War Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The2ndQuest, Nov 27, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Admiral_Keller Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2005
    star 2
    Tarfang: Galactic Alliance Intelligence Agent (male Ewok)

    An ewok as a character. I love it really

    It was Wedge and Janson's Idea first!
  2. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Easy.

    Qui-Gon took it THROUGH THE HEART.
    Jacen took it through the gut.

    Stomach wounds are much easier to live through (comparatively) than having your heart incinerated by a lightsaber...
  3. wade1972 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2005
    star 1
    I found Jacen's wound to be a bit of an odd thing myself. I didn't want him to die, because I like him (he has potential) but I think he would have been wounded a lot worse than he was - that he would have had some major damage.

    If a lightsabre can melt a doorlock (as seen in Episode 1)not only would he have a simple hole but a part of his insides should have melted.

    The book let him off way too easy.
  4. Ashandarei2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2005
    star 1
    Well, remember, Mara apparently got hooked to a wall by a mandible that went straight through her back and stomach, and then proceeded to chomp around for a bit in there. When I read that, I was actually like, "Oh crap, they're killing her off?" But no; month recovery time, tops. Kinda makes wounds that Jedi suffer nowadays seem unimportant to the extreme.
  5. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Not really.

    We saw that it takes EXTENDED PERIODS to cause enough heat-generation to melt door-locks and the like. Quick thrusts and cuts incinerate what the come in contact with *right then* and nothing else and leave behind micro-cauterization wounds on the flesh remaining.
  6. wade1972 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2005
    star 1
    You know I completely forgot about the "micro-cauterization".

    But still, a hole through you by a lightsabre would be pretty destructive. You would need re-contructive surgery for sure, and if it's your stomach/chest there are major organs there that are necessary to live. I can't imagine a lightsabre going through you without seriously messing you up.

    Unless people in the SW universe have a different physiology that we do.
  7. JacenSol0 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2005
    star 1
    He was seriously messed up. He had to drop into a healing trance and be taken to one of the medical ships for emergency surgery.
  8. greensaber88 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2005
    I'm just waiting for a Noghri Supreme Commander, roll on LotF!!
  9. Master_Keralys Sometime Technical Aide and Erstwhile Lit Mod

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2003
    star 5
    Also, surviving stab wounds that do serious damage to the organs in the stomach is possible even in today's world, much less in the GFFA with bacta - which functions as reconstructive surgery, btw - much less a Jedi with a healing trance. Also, as was pointed out, Qui-Gon took it through the heart. None of the organs that Jacen would have had punctured by where he was stabbed were vital to life - the only thing in that region that would have that kind of effect is the liver, and that was apparently not damaged.

    - Keralys
  10. Terje_Lisan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2005
    star 2
    I was just thought the imagery of Jacen floating around on a chair reminded too much of Yoda. But, I do hope Jagged Fel is found alive and comes back in the future.
  11. TelannaTani Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2005
    star 3
    Can someone PM me and explain this Marakin/Tenel Ka-as-Luke's-daughter concept? The idea makes me laugh, but I am interested to see what theory you are referring to.

    Please clue me in. [face_batting]

    *~Telanna~*
  12. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    PM THrawn about it. I'm sure he'd be too thrilled to speak of.:p
  13. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Wow, I flicked through the thread very quickly, as I absented myself to avoid spoilers, and opinions are far ranging here. The brief canon clash, the tempers. The likes and dislikes, speculations and spars. Everyone has a fixed view on how wizards should act, how far they should utilise their wizardry.

    But how ingrained are your views? Has watching their paucity for years and dozens of books affected your impression of their alleged abilities? Sure, Swarm War had several key issues that needed addressing, but people are missing the zahnpoint that it was setting up events for Legacy, that its storyline necessitated characters behave a certain way, and really, we've never seen the exploration of such issues before anyway.

    And the eggs. The cry over eggs was hilarious, and goes to show how blind you can be: that Earthian names are tolerated but not mere staple food? How does it differ to eating dewback meat? You think they don't have tomatoes there?

    The characterisation and tension was electric. You saw Akanah appearing to be hostile. Omas sharp and edgy to his "pub bar buddy-buddy" bland NJO persona. Kiss that fish, why you even saw Luke scold his nephew sharply---the first time ever in the entire series, or saga, as you tend to say. Even Pellaon shouted at Luke. All this was a first, when all we get are polite relationships.

    The whole trilogy was a first; Swarm War specially. New profanity, new ships, new characterisation, new technology, now Forcing, new storylines. New style covers. It was like seeing that "new" intro effects in The Leisure Hive, after the prior mundane intro during that decade of Doctor Who, and if you thought I was going to go one thread today without mentioning my love you're mistaken.

    I for one can say Dark Nest offered an intelligent storyline I thoroughly enjoyed, and I hope Erikson can forgive me for the Malazan books I had to temporarily put down each time. Sorry to say this, but most of the complaints I've previewed in the dozens of pages are trivial and twitty, more in opposition to personal preference than the writing beams that roof the book. Indeed, why middle finger Denning when it was Unifying Force that ended with the new Force mantra, right? I don't recall any if at all disapproval then . . .

    I can see the setup in advance too: information from Triple Zero can feature in Bloodlines, Mandos and the last blood one; and what Denning started here he'll be developing further in Tempest. 000 and Dark Nest, really, were baselines of information to come.

    I think . . . I think this is why all we get are fluffy, simplistic novels as most of the NJO and CW were. That fan sentiments are noted, and anything different or slightly new even temporarily is just too dynamic to handle. And though all the prominant author homesites say editors don't want more dragons, that's all I'm seeing in most fantasy books worldwide, evidencing this theory. I think SW could be a quarter of all science fiction, even more. No wonder space opera is so dead past few years.

    We're doomed. :_|

    :p
  14. Kestrel2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2000
    star 1
    OMG, you're right! Now that you've pointed it out, I actually did like this trilogy! Silly me! :p
  15. SithSense Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2002
    star 3
    Huh. So Jacen isn't a virgin anymore.
    Who would have thought.

    Sorry. I haven't had time to read any of the newer books after the NJO.
  16. Motterman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2000
    star 2
    RE: Mara's fangirl status for Jacen: Maybe she's drawn to powerful men (not so much sexually with Jacen or with Palpy... but consider what these men who have played major parts in her life have in common)

    Then there's the whole: "Don't worry Leia, Luke would NEVER become an Emperor-type leader/figure..." [face_shhh]

    She sees what Jacen is doing and is always first to defend him when suspicions arrive over what he's planning/doing, always quick to dismiss potential red flags. She's also letting Jacen train Ben, because she apparantly wants Ben to grow up and be the most powerful Force-user of all time. And she's got Luke wrapped around her finger cause this all has to pan out under his watch. [face_skull]

    Jacen's fall to the dark side has been laid out and executed (so far) much better than Anakin Skywalker's. So much so, that people doubt that it's even happening. That's brilliant writing.

    Speaking of writing, I didn't like the insect talk covering half the pages, like somebody already mentioned. Plus, I'm not keen on Jaina's Joiner storyline, but hey, we'll see if there was any point to it all in LotF.
  17. Cil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2005
    star 1
    and anything different or slightly new even temporarily is just too dynamic to handle

    I agree, that's the root of where most of the problem's people have with DN and the rest of the NJO lie.

    The storyline of Swarm War was a good soild one, and I think a lot of people are blowing up only few minor nit picks, way too much.

    Jag is a good example: A lot of people are feinting a lot anger at the author, about his fate, and with all their anger on the issue, people are starting to hate the book over one small issue, forgetting about the rest of the story line.

    As for force powers issue, I have to say all the Star Wars authors have done some petty screwy thing's with them - even Zahn, remember the telporting tick Car'dais did?
  18. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    Jagged was well portrayed in that last last book, I agree. The only disappointing part was that he didn't die. That would have been a strong emotional moment, betrayed by those he fought beside for years. I was pinning for Jaina's mum of all people to kill him. You could have harnessed the resulting effects afterward for Jaina.

    After a full trilogy of reading, it was most unrewarding to see closure for Alema too.
  19. Cil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2005
    star 1
    The only disappointing part was that he didn't die.

    Hmm... I would have said the opposite, but than again ether way, we would've had some closuer on the issue.
  20. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    No, no, no! To make it truly emotional, dare I even say, Shakespearian, he should have killed Jaina after being mortally wounded by her, whence he would make slow, anguished farewell to Shawnkyr, and bidding her, in this harsh galaxy draw her breath in pain, to tell his story.
  21. Kestrel2 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2000
    star 1
    I think that's a rather sweeping generalization. My complaints about DN trilogy in general and TSW in particular are not because I find "anything different or slightly new" to be "too dynamic" (whatever that means).

    That sort of statement is reminiscent of R.A. Salvatore saying readers didn't like Vector Prime because Chewie died or because they "didn't understand where the story was going." :rolleyes:
  22. ConservativeSoldier Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 3
    lol
  23. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    You're sure he didn't die? [face_thinking]

    :(

    - The Imperial Ewok
  24. Cil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2005
    star 1
    I think that's a rather sweeping generalization. My complaints about DN trilogy in general and TSW in particular are not because I find "anything different or slightly new" to be "too dynamic" (whatever that means).

    That sort of statement is reminiscent of R.A. Salvatore saying readers didn't like Vector Prime because Chewie died or because they "didn't understand where the story was going."


    Maybe I am generalizing, and I do understand that people just didn't like DN, but then again, reading though this thread and others on the same subject, I got the impression that (and I'm not the only one, I'll bet), a lot of people are just bagging the book(s) (and the author) because what they wanted to happen to Yada Yada, didn't happen.

    And the other thing I picked up is the deal with the force power's, I already voiced my opinon on this.

    The Rest of the issue is on where the Star Wars story is going... and all I've got say on that is, if you don't like the way things are going then, tough luck and get over it, Because I don't think Del-Rey will be re-writing the whole time period, for the sake of a few miffed fans.

    While I do have my own problem's with TSW - I don't go around flaming the author about it (like others do), there is a such thing as constuctive critism you know.
  25. ConservativeSoldier Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 3
    I agree with this analysis completely. It's spot on.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.