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Books The Official Darth Plagueis Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rogue_Follower, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken

    Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2012
    While it was indeed Sidious that did the "bending", it would be more fair to say that the Force created a being to stop Plagueis, not Sidious. It was Plagueis who manipulated midichlorians, Plagueis who(judging by his Book of Sith entry) would have eventually achieved near-omnipotence. Plagueis was the main driving force behind the "etheric war" he and Sidious waged on the Force. It was Plagueis who resurrected Venamis again and again, an event which stunned Sidious, by the way. And it was Plagueis who, drunk on power, attempted to create a Force-sensitive being and reached out through the Force to "inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them". That event was the straw that broke the camel's back, and judging by the timeline, Anakin was 'created' in that same year, as a response to Plagueis' actions.
     
  2. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Plagueis was being manipulated by Sidious.
     
  3. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken

    Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2012
    Was he?
     
  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Read his speech when he kills Plagueis.
     
  5. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken

    Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2012
    I read his speech. But everyone knows Sidious isn't a modest fellow. Coincidentally, James Luceno himself seems to cast some doubt onto the whole Sidious manipulated Plagueis idea.



    It's clear Sidious played Plagueis to a certain degree. Specifically, he let Plagueis believe he was 'going along with the program' and buying into Plagueis' sharing the power ideas, learned everything he could from Plagueis and used Plagueis' power to further his political career, and then turned around and stabbed him in the back.
    But Sidious' speech about how he implanted thoughts into Plagueis' head etc. is just grandstanding. Sidious is quite fond of grandstanding.

    Regardless, that's neither here nor there. Even if Sidious manipulated Plagueis, it had nothing to do with Plagueis' unprecented abilities and midichlorian manipulation. If the Force has a will, I suspect it cares less about galactic politics and more about the esoteric, natural order-defying powers Plagueis posessed.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  6. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    In that interview, Luceno avoided definite answers.
     
  7. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken

    Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2012
    You don't say...
     
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  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I say.
     
  9. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 28, 2009
    Reread the abduction/assassination chapters and they're definitely the highlight of the book. For a continuity nerd and political junkie, Luceno knows how to write a pretty good fight scene. Quick and brutal. But while Stover sometimes plods on with his fight scenes (e.g. Dooku vs. Anakin & Obi-Wan in ROTS), Luceno is sometimes too brief. The two ought to write a Star Wars book together.

    Otherwise, Plagueis is holding at about a 7/10 for me.
     
    Vialco likes this.
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    That has the potential to be interesting. Than again, I don't care for action.
     
  11. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    How can you be into Star Wars and not like action...?
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  12. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    There's more to Star Wars than action. Emotion, story, plot, politics, philosophy, etc.
     
  13. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 28, 2009
    It's gotta have a bit of both for me. Plagueis plods and dithers more than it should. Cloak of Deception was fine in this regard because it was a conspiracy-thriller. But with Plagueis, this was primarily about the Sith whereas Deception was secular.
     
  14. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Well, I didn't say there should be exclusive action. But without it, it's basically most episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series. :p
     
  15. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    The best action is always in service to plot and emotion, and if Stover's writing, philosophy. An action scene with no substance is nothing but filler. An action scene that's built up, involving characters you care about with underlying tension and meaning in every blow? That's magic.
     
    JackG, Barriss_Coffee and Revanfan1 like this.
  16. Darth Ridiculis

    Darth Ridiculis Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 15, 2013
    "Have you ever heard the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Drunk? His apprentice killed him when he was wasted."
     
    Circular Logic, Zer0, Danzo and 5 others like this.
  17. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It just figures someone would make a joke like that sooner or later.
     
  18. Darth Xalfrea

    Darth Xalfrea Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 2, 2013
    It really makes watching that scene in ROTS much better. If you watch it again with the events with Plagueis in mind, you can just imagine that when Palpatine relays his story to Anakin, inside his mind he's probably laughing like crazy.

    The "tragedy" becomes a "comedy". From a certain POV.
     
    Aiden Keiran and Darth Ridiculis like this.
  19. VanishingReality

    VanishingReality Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 21, 2013
    I think a plan Sidious stole credit for in his speech despite being 100% Plagueis was Dooku's turn. Plagueis was the one in a unique position to manipulate Dooku toward the dark side, long before he took Palpatine as an apprentice. I think that Dooku's species-ism formed after he turned to the dark side, since a Jedi wouldn't have those hang ups and Yoda was his master. So Dooku would have listened to Plagueis, who would make the Republic appear oppressive for opposing militarization, instead of a senator that seemingly loved the republic.

    Some ideas, Sidious actually did 'plant' like the idea of Order 66. The fact that the army consisted of Kamino clones was an off the wall idea that reflected Plagueis personality.
     
  20. Darth Xalfrea

    Darth Xalfrea Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 2, 2013
    Sidious was I think the one who pushed Dooku to go full on Dark, while Plagueis just simply wanted Dooku to be a thorn in the Republic's side. Plagueis was wary about another Dark-side user because of the delicate position he and Palps was in.
     
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  21. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Darth Ridiculis

    Darth Ridiculis Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 15, 2013
    Speaking of that Plagues action figure, which I want, they need to make a young Palpatine action figure, complete with Sith robes and maybe Sith eyes, from when he and his master are slaughtering nomads on the plains. Or a version based on him during the massacre of his family (BTW, that was one of my favorite parts of the novel, and truly seemed a fitting turn for the most evil man in the galaxy)
     
  23. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    There's an apprentice-robes Palpatine already, though he has a TPM-look on his head. It's the new Vintage Collection one. If you take his hood and cloak off, he is basically wearing Jedi robes in black.
     
  24. Darth Ridiculis

    Darth Ridiculis Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I think Palp's grandstanding during his speech is equivalent to his "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it" line. He didn't foresee everything, but he wanted everyone, especially his minions to think he did. He also enjoyed toying with and emotionally torturing his victim's before they died. See Mr. Saltine playing with that blonde kid at the end of RotJ.
     
  25. Darth Ridiculis

    Darth Ridiculis Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jul 15, 2013
    Really?! Palpatine figures are really the only ones I buy anymore. I got the Phantom Menace vintage version, but I've never opened it. Is that the one?