Lit The Official Darth Plagueis Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rogue_Follower, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    Are we operating under the assumption that the Force is supposed to remain balanced forever?
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  2. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4

    It's balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side, with the two coexisting in the galaxy.

    And i'm glad @DigitalMessiah just asked that question, as it's another problem I have with the way many interpret things, as if the Force can't fall out of balance again. If it happened once I don't see why it couldn't happen again.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Oct 12, 2013
  3. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    I've read here quite often that fans believe if Palpatine doesn't take a dirt nap at Endor that he's basically going to rule the galaxy forever. Consequently, that gives Anakin's action quite a bit of weight to it, even if the effect isn't permanent (in more ways than one ;) ).
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Oct 12, 2013
  4. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil."

    -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999
  5. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    "good" and "evil" ARE western duelism
    Not letting the Trade Federation have a Senator would go a long way.
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Not really. Wasn't the idea that the Trade Federation antics were permitted by corruption elsewhere in the Senate?
  7. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4

    Very true. As silly as it may be that Palpatine was unable to use any aspect of the Force to save himself in that situation (I've always just assumed he was stricken with shock and unable to think properly) if Vader hadn't done what he'd done there was really no chance anyone else would ever be able to stop him. That was the end point.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    :eek: I hope that's not an Episode VII spoiler!
  9. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    Nah it's a Dark Empire spoiler.
  10. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    The year is 1990. Try not to spoil Dark Empire.
  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Given that DP sets up that it took 2 centuries for the process of unbalancing the Force to really take effect, no, it shouldn't happen very often at all.
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  12. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    I like to think that Anakin finally "reawakened the incredible power within [himself]" and was thus, to a large extent, able to overpower and supress Palpatine's connection to the Force.

    Like a reverse Jerec, basically. :cool:;)
  13. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    That depends upon what constitutes "unbalancing the Force." The Expanded Universe is pretty paradoxical about it and overall the whole concept is immensely silly when all told.
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Yeah, but I'd say combining with other Sith to blast a hole in it probably qualifies!
  15. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    Que?

    This idea that Tenebrous' master and Tenebrous started doing these rituals that causes some sort of rift or some other terminology, and this process continued with the succession of Sith Lords all the way to Plagueis and Sidious, is pretty silly. What's the mechanism for reversing it? Killing Sidious? How does that work? Is it a ritual Sidious has to do every weekend to sustain? Why didn't he keep doing it after he resurrected in a clone?
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  16. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Who knows? You might get some answers in the ST, you might not - DP's story is of the Sith's activity - all we have for how it got fixed is Anakin killed the Emperor and restored "balance to the Force". That's it.

    The idea that the Sith would go to such extremes to stack the deck in their favour is one I find to be quite fitting, but the book never gives a hint as to how the damage they do, over such a span of time, can be fixed.
  17. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    It's an EU invention that they did this, so I highly doubt the ST will deal with it at all. I think it's absolutely silly and not particularly well thought out, but Luceno says that he was going off of an oblique mention in the New Essential Chronology that the Jedi sensed that the Force was losing balance about 200 BBY.

    I think too much emphasis is placed upon the literal destruction of the Sith, because Lucas says that Anakin restores balance by destroying the Sith. Darth Sidious at Endor was the shatterpoint for the dark side's ascendancy, and Anakin struck the corusca gem with a hammer. Why was he the shatterpoint? Because he had achieved dominance over the entire galaxy, and if he wasn't killed then, nothing was going to stop him. He wasn't performing upkeep on a ritual to keep the Force out of balance, his actions as Emperor of the Galactic Empire, and the authority he delegated to men like Tarkin beneath him and their subsequent actions, were causing the imbalance. But this is a situation that was only escalating, as during the Clone Wars the CIS and the Galactic Republic were doing the same things to a lesser degree, and prior to that the Trade Federation and Commerce Guilds were doing so with the Republic's back turned. And all of this was a consequence of the Order of the Sith Lord's political and economic maneuvering behind the scenes, which only became more overt and more damaging to the galaxy as Sidious rose to power.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Oct 12, 2013
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  18. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Well remember that the book got put on ice for a number of years, likely due to the ideas...

    I tend to agree that the whole "balance to the Force" concept is a crappy one and badly executed, take it away and you remove the basis for a whole swath of LOTF/FOTJ/Crucible too.

    But I do like the notion that, if it's all a cosmic game between the light and dark sides of the Force, then of course the dark side's agents cheat.
  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    The premise of cheating is a silly one. The Force is one. You can't cast a spell on it to influence it. "We are part of the Force; it will always be, at least partially, whatever we are." That's how the Force is imbalanced -- because reality reflects itself onto the Force. "The Force is not God -- it's not something 'out there,' a unitary entity with its own will and intention. It's right here. A Jedi is part of it -- and so is everything else. Its "will" (to use an inadequate word) is expressed in existence itself."
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Oct 12, 2013
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Tell that to the Sith! :D
  21. BedlamSpirit Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2011
    star 1
    I fail to see how Anakin killing Palpatine at Endor had that effect. Palpatine was going to return in clones anyway. Not to mention the shield generator was destroyer and Palpatine would die.

    I think it was a screw up to place the military and political action in the same scene, it makes Anakin's action seem irrelevant because the Death Star was destroyed anyway. I don't see how the Emperor's destruction at Endor (which wasn't even permanent) made sure he was not going to rule forever, if he didn't ruled forever when he had a younger, more powerful body, a more powerful Superweapon and forces that were destroying the New Republic/Rebellion easily (one has to wonder, why he waited so much to do it).

    It should had been like ROTJ was going to be originally, with Luke being brought to the Empire's capital to meet Vader and the Emperor, that way we could had seen whatever effect Vader killing the Emperor really had.

    Perhaps if it had done it, Dark Empire would had been not possible, since it may had ended the film with a clear indication that the Empire was truly defeated uttery with the fall of its capital.
  22. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    He didn't rule forever, so it did indeed have that effect. "What ifs" don't matter.
  23. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Have to agree with @DigitalMessiah on this one. The idea that the Sith performed an experiment/ritual and struck a blow to the Force that threw it out of balance is downright silly. It's better for the loss of balance to simply naturally occur over time as a thousand years of Sith work towards toppling the Jedi, and corrupting the Republic from without and within. No supernatural ritual is needed anywhere in the equation for that to work.

    Anakin killing Palpatine changed everything, as it led to the Empire being without its ruler for years, which directly led to it falling apart to warring factions. Palpatine returning in clones years later was a step back towards dominance for him, but by that point Luke had grown to now be an active threat to him, as had the rest of the Rebellion. Had he returned right away, the very next day and announced his recovery, it might have been a different story. But he didn't. Had Anakin not killed him the Rebellion would've been crushed and never would've had the time to grow. Luke would've either died or been converted to the Dark Side (Or even worse just had his own body taken over by Sidious.)
  24. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Had Palpatine not been thrown into the reactor, he would have hopped on his shuttle before the Death Star blew up.
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  25. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 6
    Per Zahn -- and according to some, the ROTJ novelization -- Palpatine's death directly led to the Death Star's destruction and ultimately Imperial defeat at the Battle of Endor due to Palpatine's direct influence on the battle in the Force.