Books The Official Darth Plagueis Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

When George Lucas dies, then he will be considered a Legend. Then the whole Saga will be considered Legends, then everything will fit once again...

 

Well, Palpatine did say it was a legend...

 

What if they would have come out and said the EU is all legends except Darth Plagueis? Ummm....talk about a spoiler alert. Plagueis is really playing it...one foot in death (Legends) and one in life (canon at the highest level). There's still no definitive either way. I can't wait for JJ to come out and say Plagueis is not the ST villain (Khan).


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And let's not forget that whole do-hickey of Palpatine coming across baby Maul. The Plagueis book is definitely one of the most debatable right now.

What can make it canon-Plagueis's name drop in ROTS, Maul.

What can't make it canon-All of Luceno's story connections.

 

I really hope JJ doesn't play the same games this time around.

 

I just finished this book today and it is difficult to gather my thought. All I can say is that it was a thrilling experience and definitely taught me much more about the way of the Sith.

Still, it was strange that Darth Plagueis was alive during The Phantom Menace. Darth Sidious was clearly violating the rule of two.

Another thing I expected in the novel was a greater explanation about Plagueis's midichlorian manipulation. I am quite confused how it worked.

 

So are you agreeing with me or poking fun at me? If it's the latter I am fine with it, I am just unsure.

 

Noooooo definitely agreeing! I think that seems to be a common complaint with the novel -- it delivered on every ground except the part involving Plagueis's experiments. If you get past Palpatine and Plagueis's initial "OMG what have we done?!?" reactions to the experiment in the novel, you start to think "well uh... yeah -- what did you do, exactly?" Luceno can write an excellent political thriller but the science was a little iffy. I've often wondered how much he had to cut or change from the plot based on demands from the Powers That Be (aka Lucas et al).

 

TCW has repeatey contradicted the Plagueis novel. TCW has Sifo-Dyas die while Valorum was Chancellor and Son of Dathomir says that Talzin, not Kycina, gave Maul to Sidious. Additionally, when asked about Maul's real name, Filoni said "we'll see" instead of pointing to the Plagueis novel.

So even if Lucas gave Luceno ST-relevant information, the novel itself definitely isn't canon.

 

Although Plagueis is canon....you are pointing to rather small and unimportant inconsistencies that are not at the heart of the Plagueis' story.

In the Plagueis book who was the Chancellor when Master Dyas dies?

Kycina was driven to give Maul to Palpatine by Mother, right?

What is Maul's real name?

 

That is... anything but evidence that the novel isn't canon. Officially under the Disney regime, it's not, but surely you understand how some incredibly minor details being sort of kind of maybe little bit contradictory is not what makes the novel non-canon.

 

Since he isn't shown dying "onscreen" in the Plagueis book, it's unclear.

If they wished to "recanonize" Plagueis and move it out of the Legendsverse and into the Lucasverse - they could say he was killed during the book, with his death scene simply not being shown.

 

You were claiming that someone is lying that the novel isn't canon. I'm saying that even if the heart of the story remains canon, the novel itself isn't canon.

I'm sorry but these "minor details" are what makes the novel non-canon. When you want things to either be canon or non-canon, even the smallest of details being inconsistent = noncanon. Also, I wouldn't call the inconsistencies I listed, "minor". Sifo-Dyas and Maul meeting Sidious are very important.

 

the best Expanded Universe Novel EVER!!!!
We didn't get any B.S. one shot filler characters to convolute the story and become pager filler
We actually got into the character/alter ego of another Sith Lord and Palpatines Master at that!!!
I took the whole "experiment" as maybe we did create him (Anakin) maybe the force has a will of its owns an is counter acting our actions... At the end of the day they really didn't know what the Hell had happened..
The gaps in publishing, when the novel was originally supposed to be released. makes me think maybe an original finished draft was edited down to the story we now have,.. Luceno did the best he could with the mess he had to write himself out of.. Again I think a novel that gives the Sith Fans a ton of fantastic material we didn't know and I do hope it stays in continuity, maybe a sequal/prequel one day. Darth Plaguis/Hego Demask had a long life/ career in the galaxy and I wouldn't mind seeing his apprenticeship flushed out in more detail..

 

I re-read the part you quoted, sir, and mine was a "What if", and no claim of a 'liar' present. Thanks. Point is that they might as well make all EU Legends and cherry pick whatever is needed or desired.

 

Sorry about the miscommunication.

 

That is not how canon works. Not even remotely. I apologize if I come off as rude, but "even the smallest of details being inconsistent = noncanon" is one of the most inaccurate statements I have ever come across.

 

I make no claim to be an expanded universe expert, and I don't want to start any cannon argument, for me the novel works perfect with WHAT WE SEE ON THE SCREEN, the six films we all know, its connects fine. Again Luceno did what he could with a mess, and we got two of my favorite Star Wars themes into an awesome novel Political Intrigue and the Sith!!

 

"I apologize if I come off as rude, but "even the smallest of details being inconsistent = noncanon" is one of the most inaccurate statements I have ever come across." I also apologize if I come off as rude, but that itself is one of the most inaccurate statements I have ever come across.

 

Ok. Yeah I totally agree! The novel pretty much came out and said Plagueis created Anakin, but we are never told how. In the end, I probably would not have liked it anyway because midichlorians are stupid to me, and yes I realize they are not the force itself, but the broadcasters.

 

Luceno did a good merging the science with the mystical. I took it as Plaguis didn't even know at the end. You can also use it as the breaking point for Palpatine, he may have seen Anakin as his potential replacement, part of Plaguis's grand plan


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I don't really need an author to go in depth in terms of the aftereffects of his work, but i'd like to see a bit more detailing of the work itself. I didn't think Plagueis ability was properly explained or expanded upon. I mean the results are clear enough: The Force gets angry, creates Anakin. Plagueis can revive the dead. But it'd be nice to know more about how he got there in terms of research.

 

In Issue #130 of Star Wars Insider, James Luceno notes:

It appears that Luceno really was trying to connect everything together in his first draft, and saw fit to explore further into the mysteries of the Force and Plagueis' quest for immortality. The fact that the Whills themselves were to be mentioned is very promising! While the final version of the novel was excellent, I felt that the decision to cut out this particular subplot may have been a missed opportunity (thankfully, TCW explored this in the Yoda arc). It shows a Jedi succeeding where the Sith would ultimately fail; finding the key to life after death, true immortality, but likely without actively desiring it. From the RotS novel: "The ultimate goal of the Sith, yet they can never achieve it; it comes only through the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed."

I wouldn't be surprised if the original draft went into more detail into how Plagueis was able to expand his knowledge of midi-chlorian manipulation such that he would be able to create life and revive the dead (Venamis). But this might have ultimately cut because of the prohibitive length.

 

It implied the Force created Anakin in response to what Plagueis was doing.