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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books The Official Darth Plagueis Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rogue_Follower, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    I've already moved onto King Prana is Plagueis. They both have planets with dangerous beasty parks and entertain to the masses, and their names both begin with the letter P. You might argue though and say "isn't it too much of a coincidence then that Plagueis hired Han to get the rathtars?" and I would argue back something about the Millennium Falcon on Jakku. Seriously this theory can't be beat.

    But I shall brownnose myself and agree with modgod Uli that the question is not "Will Plagueis be in the ST?" Nobody cares about that anymore. The real question is "Will Sojourn be in the ST?" Plagueis is only a single badass. Sojourn is a thousand badasses fight other badasses.
     
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  2. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    I disliked enough about it to dabble in a rewrite called Forceborn that you seemed to enjoy.

    No need to get bent out of shape over a typo. ;)

    Or maybe because I wasn't directly quoted by Sodooku, I never noticed that he responded.

    Not sure why you two are getting so defensive about it.
     
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  3. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    Hallo Sable_Hart,

    I didn’t quote you because I answered your posting adjacently below and in some forums it is even disliked to cite in such a case.

    At first I’m happy that you outed yourself here to be the author of the refined and colourful “Forceborn”-stories, I enjoyed so much on fanfiction.net as you found out already. For some years passed after you did publish it there, I was not sure if the author would ever still be interested or would take notice of such a delayed interest in his work which is surely far more than just “dabbled” in my point of view. Usually you get reviews right after publication and then the general attention goes elsewhere. As goes the attention of some authors sometimes.

    I can assure you that I’m normally not that nitpicking, pointing at typos of others. I was just astonished about your relatively short, generalizing and high-handed posting about the DP-novel as such. And in connection with that a typo in the name of the main protagonist of that novel did hurt my eye really.

    For I usually know you here in TheJediCouncil-boards as analyzing, digging deep and arguing in a straight, concise and logical manner I enjoyed in many previous postings of yours. That’s why I just wanted to give you a little nudge. I hope I did not nudge too far ;)

    I suppose James Luceno had been given a certain frame of pages and contents, he had to fill like many Starwars-authors are bound to. Actually the DP-novel could become a trilogy easily just like The Jedi Academy or other stuff with Jedi-heroes. But … wait … Darth Bane got his trilogy. I really wish Plagueis together with Tenebrous and Sidious could have got that too.

    But when the DP-novel at least did inspire you and many others to write missing scenes or some ramifications and adornments to make that corner of the SW-universe more comprehensive and colourful, then it served a good purpose even if you don’t appreciate it so much. For the DP-novel is legends now, your “Forceborn”-stories are not quite different in being SW-credible :D .

    And I still hope you give us some details about your disliking of the novel in particular.

    Have a nice weekend

    Sudooku
     
  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Cosinga tells Hego Damask that, "The Naboo have a legend about six impenetrable gates that hold back chaos. House Palpatine is one of those gates, Damask." What is the intended implication of this statement? Is House Palpatine descended from Celestials?
     
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  5. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I think it's just self-aggrandizing family mythology.
     
  6. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    Beside being a clear but in vain threat from the already doomed Cosinga, this sentence is just another place left unfinished in and after the release of the novel. Just like Hego's reply about Omar Berenko and his work "The Defense of Naboo"

    Please feel free to write a fanfic about that in order to fill that gap. :)
     
  7. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    So I saw that the mods locked the Snoke-IS-Plagueis-thread on this board.[face_idea]

    But even when Plagueis is not Snoke, why abandon this character so gratuitously when in the DP-novel Plagueis' POV during dying is omitted by James Luceno on purpose and Plagueis' remark to Sidious at Aborah: "Soon I will be stronger than you can ever imagine", is a sign of his survival too. Like Obi-Wan, who said nearly the same in ANH" to Vader before decapitated. This is classical mirroring and rhyming in Star Wars. And I still think it means something. I would like Plagueis to survive as a force-ghost. And to come back later to let end the Saga once and for all. So Plagueis would be the bracket to hold everything together.

    I can`t believe that such a revival, when planned, was tossed aside like this for the launch of other characters, whose origin Disney doesn't want to get ratted out before Ep. VIII and IX are released. It seems that the Grand Plan of the Sith and especially that of Plagueis was more elaborated and balanced than Disney's retcon & hopping plans concerning the Star Wars-storyline.
     
  8. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2000
    Ahmmm, you do know, that the Sith and Plagueis are fictional constructs? So they can't have one plan and Disney another one.
     
  9. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I'm pretty sure they just think that Luceno (or someone up above him) had a plan to bring back Plagueis that was derailed by the reboot, though given the tone of the post it's hard to be sure.
     
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  10. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    I always thought it was a mistake for Krayt in Legacy to not be Jacen. I can't believe I never thought that having Krayt be Plagueis would be even better.

    Plus, then you could make it so he could bring back Mara, Anakin (hell, why not both Anakins), Bib Fortuna, and everyone else who got killed off gratuitously.
     
  11. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    It would be great to have a comic including Plagueis, Sifo-Dyas, Dooku and younger Sidious to show the planning and evolving of the clone army. I think it is still contradictory, how Sifo Dyas was killed over Felicia and the moon of Oba-Diah at the very same time. It didn't came out clearly to me at TCW, s. 6.
     
  12. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    It actually does all fit together, but like me, you have to work the forensics yourself to work out what happened when.

    Simply put, Sifo-Dyas was on Oba Diah on behalf of Valorum, without the Jedi Council knowing about it - Palpatine had specifically suggested Sifo-Dyas to Valorum to settle a crime war Sidious himself had instigated. Sifo-Dyas went there to negotiate with the Pykes; then, the Council ordered him to drop what he was doing and proceed at once to Felucia to settle a dispute there. He did as he was told and left the moon by shuttle. But Dooku was secretly also on the moon at the same time and, already an apprentice of Sidious at this point, payed the Pykes to shoot the shuttle down. The shuttle made it as far as the unnamed moon of Oba Diah before it crashed. Sifo-Dyas was killed in the crash; the Pykes gave the body to Dooku, who took the body with him to Felucia and burned it in the presence of a number of Felucian tribesmen, which is why it was assumed that he had died on Felucia. The actual cause of his death, far from Felucia, as intended to remain a mystery, but the discovery of Sifo-Dyas' lightsaber more than a decade later botched that.
     
  13. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    Hi Pflügermeister,

    From where is the information, that Sidious instigated the quarrels between the Pykes and the government?

    And when Sifo Dyas never made it to Felucia, why the Felucians told Obi-Wan about the mysterious second Jedi, later figured out to be Valorum's aide Silman in TCW, s.6?
     
  14. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Plageuis not being explored once, especially once they started exploring both esoteric aspects of the Force and the backstory of TPM, is one of the two things I am genuinely surprised that TCW never explored. (Young Han on Kashyyyk is the other thing I fully expected TCW to show at one point and was surprised it didn't.)

    Actually, thinking about it, having Plageuis be the one to resurrect Maul and use him as a tool of distraction against Palpatine would have been far preferable to Maul simply having survived being cut in half due to Reasons. I could get behind that in a way I will never be able to get behind the current (non-)explanation of Maul's survival.
     
  15. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    That's what I expected when the novel was first released. The novel was released shortly before Savage found Maul and the back cover says "Could he be the only one who never died?" and has a picture of Maul below that.
     
  16. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    It still might end up being true, since Maul is still unexplained.
     
  17. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Okay, if you'll allow me to break out the actual quotes from the episode, and statements made by Dave Filoni, I'll walk us through this point by point.

    First, we need to establish two basic assumptions: one, that the events concerned all take place prior to the events of The Phantom Menace (as Palpatine describes himself as still being a humble senator when all this was happening); two, that the implication is that Darth Sidious had already recruited Dooku and appointed him his apprentice Darth Tyranus, at the same time that he had Darth Maul serving as his apprentice - apparently with neither having knowledge of the other, that that is not specified anywhere and is open to debate. This of course flies against what the Darth Plagueis novel established, as that novel ends with Maul already assumed dead on Naboo and Dooku not yet fully recruited, let alone appointed a Sith - but as that's not canon anymore in any case, we know the answer to that problem.

    Okay, so let's begin with the premise that by the time we begin examining things, Sidious has already gotten as much use out of Sifo-Dyas as he's going to, and it's time for the guy to go. The implication that the crime war brewing on the capital was Sidious' doing is just that, but it's very strongly hinted at by the evidence. Lom Pyke tells Kenobi and Anakin, "the Pykes wanted to gain an advantage over the other crime families, so alliances were made. One alliance was with a man named Tyranus." Since it's hardly Tyranus' way to go cavorting with organized crime for his own reasons, we have to assume he was there on Sidious' behalf, though the Pykes never mention Sidious or appear to be aware that he exists. But if we accept the quotes presented as evidence, all subsequent events in this matter can be traced back to Sidious.

    So Tyranus' support seems to embolden the Pykes, who step up their criminal activities accordingly and put the squeeze to their rivals. Valorum tells Yoda, "When I was Chancellor, I sent [Sifo-Dyas] on a mission to deal with a flare-up in the Pyke Syndicate. [...] Their criminal activities had allowed them to almost completely control the production of raw spice, used to create a powerful drug. We were facing a full-scale war underneath the surface of Coruscant." Having poured the gasoline on the fire, Sidious puts it to good use in the Senate; Valorum tells Yoda that a Senate committee is assigned to investigate and deal with the matter, and Dave Filoni stated in an interview, "the person who was running the little coalition to investigate the Pyke Syndicate's dealings, the head of that committee, was Senator Palpatine, and Palpatine played a role in making sure that Sifo-Dyas was the Jedi that got assigned to go and deal with the Pykes because by that time he wanted him eliminated."

    So Palpatine recommends to Valorum that he contact Sifo-Dyas, whose knowledge of the criminal underworld, Valorum hopes, should enable him to stabilize the problem. Normally, Valorum is obligated to inform the Jedi Council of any such assignments, but Sidious has to ensure that Sifo-Dyas disappears, so Palpatine gives voice to his "fear" of what might happen if word that the government is negotiating with gangsters gets out; Valorum tells Yoda, "The Senate committee assigned to the matter feared that open discussions with such a criminal element could legitimize their activities and give strength to opposition leaders within the bureaucracy. Secrecy was our only choice." Valorum is a well-meaning being, but he is still a politician, and by no means a perfect one; already besieged by his political opponents, Valorum is hardly inclined to give them more ammunition, so he agrees to Palpatine's apparent suggestion that secrecy is the sole option, and contacts Sifo-Dyas without informing the Jedi Council. Yoda even confirms this: "Know of this, the Jedi Council did not."

    So Sifo-Dyas heads by shuttle to the Pyke Syndicate's headquarters on Oba Diah accompanied by Silman, a member of the Chancellor's personal staff. There is no second Jedi present, according to Valorum, who doesn't know of any: just Silman and Sifo-Dyas. But the talks don't last long; Valorum tells Yoda, "I do remember that the talks were postponed not long after our delegates arrived on Oba Diah - something about a flare-up of activity on Felucia." This refers to a small skirmish that breaks out between tribes on Felucia, which Jocasta Nu mentions. Yoda tells Valorum that the Jedi Council insisted that Sifo-Dyas intervene on Felucia. So Sifo-Dyas gets the Pykes to agree to postpone the talks, and he and Silman board the shuttle bound for Felucia.


    But also on Oba Diah, at the same time as Sifo-Dyas and Silman, is Tyranus, plotting the death of Sifo-Dyas on Sidious' orders. Lom Pyke tells Kenobi, "Tyranus wanted Sifo-Dyas dead. The Pykes were well paid to shoot down his ship. However, any man that is willing to pay to have a Jedi killed is dangerous and unpredictable." Still, the Pykes decide the risk is worth it and accept the contract; from this moment, Sifo-Dyas' fate is sealed. We don't know whether they use ships or surface cannons, but the shuttle, with Sifo-Dyas and Silman aboard, is hit and crash lands on the moon. Lom Pyke continues, "The Pykes inspected the crash, to retrieve the Jedi's body for proof, but with the dead Jedi, the Pykes found another, still alive." This was obviously Silman. But what they don't find is Sifo-Dyas lightsaber - it was obviously knocked out of his grip and fell elsewhere in the cockpit for Plo Koon to discover more than a decade later.

    Tyranus collects the body of Sifo-Dyas. Lom Pyke tells Kenobi, "The Pykes gave Tyranus Sifo-Dyas, but the Pykes did not tell Tyranus about Silman. The Pykes needed insurance." Tyranus takes the body and leaves - it is clear from dialogue that Tyranus and the Pykes do not part in friendship: when he returns to Oba Diah during the episode, the Pyke guards recognize his ship and tell Tyranus that he is no longer considered welcome there. So be it - the job is done and Tyranus no longer needs these people. His mistake is to assume that Sifo-Dyas came alone, as he apparently knows nothing about Silman, and the Pykes see no reason to enlighten him. Tyranus sets for Felucia because Sifo-Dyas was unexpectedly called there, and so any future investigation into the circumstances of his death will inevitably have to terminate there.

    Kenobi tells Yoda that, according to the Felucian tribal leaders, a person appeared to them with the body of Sifo-Dyas claiming to be a second Jedi who accompanied him there; the Felucians burned his body according to their tribal custom, conveniently leaving future investigators no physical evidence of a body. But Kenobi makes a point of emphasizing that the Felucians were a very primitive people; he said that they were using a very ancient dialect which was difficult to understand, and that he was not able to make out everything they were saying, to the point where it was hard for him to tell whether they were simply difficult to understand or were deliberately leaving things unsaid - when asked the name of this "second Jedi," Kenobi says that he either didn't understand them, or they wouldn't say. The Jedi Council had no record of a second Jedi on Felucia; it can only have been Tyranus.

    When asked about Silman, Kenobi reports to Yoda that the Felucians seem not to know anything about him; indeed, there is no reason for them to ever encounter Silman - by this time he is likely already rotting away in a cell on Oba Diah. Further, because the Pykes kept Silman without Tyranus' knowledge, Tyranus - and therefore Sidious himself - do not know know anything about Silman either, until after more than a decade, his existence suddenly and unexpectedly becomes a wild card that threatens their plans. For the present, Tyranus reports to Sidious that the task is done and Sifo-Dyas is dead.

    Phew! That was a lot of typing; but it's all the evidence you need to put the events of that episode into some kind of order and sense. It's actually pretty logically constructed. As I said, you just have to be prepared do some work as an audience member to work it all out; it's not for a passive viewer.


     
  18. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    Hi, Pfluegermeister,

    Your explanation, that Sidious was responsible for the Pykes-Government-quarrel makes totally sense to me now. He and Maul were already involved in other ventures of that kind and I also believe that Plagueis left it, like so many other things, to his apprentice to “help” Dooku to join the Dark Side someday. Maybe things would have gone differently if he would have stayed in contact with Dooku more steadily.

    I understand now that the Jedi (or me[face_blush]) could mistake Dooku on Felucia at first for Silman after Valorum’s conveying and given to the Felucians’ sayings of a second Jedi difficult to understand. And it was not clear for me, if the shuttle made it to Felucia and was later back at Oba-Diah to finish the negotiations with the Pykes, who shot the ship down finally or if there was some other trickery as you explained above. But at least the route of the ship could be detected via the flight-records at the ship.
    So there were really two Jedi on Felucia. While I'm still pondering if Dooku was the one to activate the alarm-signal of the ship as his way of giving informations to the Jedi to topple Sidious. Why was Sidious strangling Dooku after Yoda did visit him? Because of the signal or because Dooku was reluctant to go after it at first, causing the wrath of Sidious?

    I concluded that all that events took place only some days before the murdering of Plagueis or even at the very same day. And after the killing of his master, Sidious immediately took Dooku as his second apprentice, who had left the order after hearing of the murder of Qui-Gon.

    Actually it would diminish Maul's capability of survival revealing that Plagueis somehow joined Maul on Lotho Minor and helped him.
    When Plagueis is not to be Snoke, he could still be guiding Maul at Malachor, helping him to study the holocron of Darth Traya (?). Just as another sideline of the Starwars-EU. IMHO Plagueis's figure is far too big to be handled in a mere sideline. But better a sideline than nothing. But Plagueis would never ever had approved an activation of that super-Sith-weapon on Malachor in "Rebels", final of S. 2 to destroy the whole galaxy. I found that pretty abominating about Maul.
     
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  19. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    I just watched the episode again just to be sure of my conclusions. Not a bad way to spend my morning.

    There's no indication that the shuttle ever actually made it to Felucia from Oba Diah; again, we do have to do the math ourselves, but it's simple math: the shuttle was seen leaving Oba Diah and found crashed on its moon. The Felucians never mention a shuttle and probably never saw one. They did see Dooku show up with Sifo-Dyas' body, they cremated the body, and Dooku left them with the impression that he died because talks with other tribes broke down. Dooku MAY have mentioned the shuttle to them as part of the lie he was spinning to them, but if they say anything about it to Kenobi, it doesn't register on him.

    As far as Dooku is concerned, there's no indication that Tyranus ever personally inspected the shuttle wreckage, let alone activated the distress signal. Tyranus commissioned the Pykes to shoot down the shuttle and they came back to him with the body. And therein lies Tyranus' fundamental mistake: he didn't inspect the crash site himself. If he had, he would have found Sifo-Dyas and killed him then and there; he would have discovered Silman was a part of this Republic delegation and killed him then and there to ensure no loose ends remained; he would have made sure the shuttle's distress signal was shut down and the wreckage reduced to unidentifiable rubble so that it could never possibly be discovered. He probably would have, done all these things, IF he'd been there. He wasn't. And he should have been.

    Keep in mind something that the Plagueis novel implies: that Sith apprentices don't seem to have very short leashes, and that they actually have a tremendous amount of discretionary authority in carrying out their master's commands: several times in the novel, Plagueis gives Sidious an instruction in the broadest possible strokes, and Sidious himself has to work out the mechanics of how he has to manipulate things to achieve the goal of fulfilling these instructions - Plagueis is off with his head in the clouds contemplating the great mysteries; it's for his apprentice to do the heavy lifting. It can't be any different for Sidious himself: Sidious informs Tyranus that Sifo-Dyas' usefulness has ended and orders Tyranus to arrange his death - Sidious can't see to this himself because he has to stay in the capital to exploit whatever comes from all this; it's for Tyranus to figure out how, using what means, and to make sure it occurs in ways that cannot be traced back to either Sith. And that's why apprentices have to be competent and chosen carefully, BECAUSE the master has to entrust so much to them when there's only two or so Sith around to make the Grand Plan work. They have to assume they can order their apprentice to do something and forget about having to worry about it.

    And here we have Tyranus, years AFTER he said he supposedly took care of everything, suddenly being revealed as having left a trail for the Jedi to follow after all! And to find out about it from the lips of Master Yoda, who walks into his office and asks about Sifo-Dyas out of nowhere! We aren't there to see Sidious hear him ask this and then try to keep his Palpatine alias' poker face up when his butt must surely have been puckering up tighter than a snare drum - he plays it cool, acts like he has to be reminded of the name of this missing Jedi when he damned well knows who Sifo-Dyas was - but the moment Yoda's back is turned, boy, does his face twist in rage! THAT'S why, the next time we see Sidious, he gives Tyranus a good choke to remind him that the leash may not be very short, but it is still there, and Sidious can still hang him with it.

    When the rubber meets the road, Darth Tyranus, for all his power, strength, and skill, was stupid. And at the point we're speaking about, long before he became the symbol of the Separatist movement, he was simply Sidious' agent provocateur within the Jedi Order, nothing more, and certainly not yet the man who could contemplate betraying the man he has submitted to and killed for, and most definitely not by means as bizarre as activating the alarm (of a ship he never visited) as a way of feeding information to the Jedi (whom I guess he wants to eventually find the ship some day?) about Sidious' activities. If he really wanted to do that, all he had to do was walk up to Yoda and confide in him about them; it made no sense for him to try to do so through such a circuitous and uncertain route. The problem with Tyranus was that he was stupid and he made a stupid mistake, not that he was treacherous and wanted to betray Sidious at this point. He screwed up, nothing more.

    As for making all this fit with the Plagueis novel, I really don't support trying to do so. The moment TCW stated that Maul was Talzin's own child, all the stuff regarding Kycina being Maul's mother from that novel went out the window. It's crappy of me to have to say this in a thread devoted to the novel, but the novel isn't canon and TCW overwrites it in several ways. If we're talking personal head canon, that's another thing, of course, and I have nothing against it; but my personal preference is still my personal preference, sorry to say.
     
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  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Sinrebirth - style answer maybe - Talzin was using "Kycina" as an alias?
     
  21. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    So in the novel, according to this theory, Talzin pretends to be Kycina, and gives Maul as an infant to Sidious of her own free will and never sees him again - and then in the series it says she spent years working to undo Sidious' plans and kill Sidious because she's mad at him for stealing her son? Sorry, it doesn't fit.

    It doesn't even fit WITHOUT the series being a factor in any way. Keep in mind that Luceno also wrote a short story at the same time as the novel came out, following up on that thread from the novel: in it, Kycina confesses what she did to Talzin, and Talzin encountered Sidious personally when she followed up on things; at that time, Sidious never recognized her as the woman who gave him infant Maul. It's clear these characters are two different people, even in Legends, let alone when you bring TCW into it.

    The Plagueis novel is incompatible with canon and I accept that. It was a magnificent novel, perhaps one of the best in Legends, but that's all it is - Legends. TCW overwrites it and can't be saved by panegyrics of logic.
     
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Fair enough.

    While she could have been lying to Maul - it does seem like a little too much in the way of retconning. Simpler just to keep them "alternate universes".
     
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  23. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    As it is so far in canon, we have:

    1) Maul is cut completely in half by a lightsaber
    2) Maul's two halves fall thousands of feet down a shaft
    3) Ten years later, Maul's top reappears on another planet hundreds of light years away with cyborg legs
    4) There is no explanation given as to how Maul went from 3 to 4. (Although his mom apparently knew but didn't bother to tell anyone or do anything to help him during this entire time.)

    That doesn't make Maul into some badass for surviving, it's just bad "writing"/terrible comic book style retconning, like when an author gets to do a run on a series and brings back an iconic character who was killed off just because he always wanted to write that character.

    I'd argue that, if Plagueis thought that Maul was actually the better Sith than Palpatine (or Dooku) and brought him back to life for that reason, that would still not diminish Maul even if it means he no longer was able to survive his guts spilling out and an immense fall and building cybernetics all on his own in the process. I mean, by this logic, we'll probably see Han Solo still alive in Episode 8, he only got stabbed through the stomach by a lightsaber before falling into a giant pit.
     
  24. darthzac14

    darthzac14 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Well the planet he was on also turned into a star but I thought the same thing.
     
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  25. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2014
    Hi,

    I have been watching that Sifo-Dyas-episode so often and mulled over a new theory several times only to find another detail which did not fit into.

    But it makes sense that Dooku was so high-handed in this regard to let do the dirty work somebody else. Like he did "eliminate" Ventress by chasing the clankers upon her at Sullust. I was always wondering if he did so because Sifo-Dyas was an old friend of his and he didn't want to look him straight into the eyes while he died. And because he cared a way for Ventress in TCW too to give her at least a tiny chance to escape. But it makes sense for me now, that he was just careless in both these situations.