Lit The Official Darth Plagueis Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rogue_Follower, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Darth_Calgmoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2006
    star 2
    Well, if I had to choose between immortality on one hand, and a eccentric Muun on the other as co-chancellor, the choice would be easy. Brains won't save you when robs you of your wits and teeth...

    As for the breathing mask a means to get rid of the old man...

    Well that would not have been necessary. Sticking to the tale, Plagueis had to be killed in his sleep, so it was always clear that Palpatine had to stab him in the back. And being as powerful as he were, I guess he would always have been able to gain the upper hand, if he could start the fight with crippling, mortal blow.

    His narcissistic monologue could always be addressed to Plagueis dying consciousness - as it were - or his dissipating Sith spirit. There was no need for the breathing mask.

    But I'm not sure if I understand how Palpatine could kill him. Being able to control the very particles which keep you alive, should actually enable you to remain alive when you are already dead...
  2. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    That's why I said; the other day, I wanted a Plagueis short like the Tenebrous one.
    So we can understand what the heck happened there.
    :p


    I still don't know how to take it.
    But, I'm moving on to absorb all the Wrath of Maul stuff.
  3. SithLord_1270 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
    Awesome. Just AWESOME. It's works like this that make me like the Sith more, n more.
  4. Starkeiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2004
    star 4
    I think the novel suggests that nobody had any idea of Palpatine's connection to the Force until he revealed it to Plagueis. If the blood test had revealed that he had the Force, would his father not made the monster the Jedi's problem? Would the Jedi not have indeed come after the child themselves, since he was so powerful? They'd drool over a record of some Naboo noble's kid overflowing with midi-chlorians! No, I don't think Cosinga would try to hide it, since all he seemed to want was to get rid of Palpatine. My understanding is that Palpatine's nature in the Force is, as Plagueis says, unlimited power hidden in plain sight, and so he hid his true nature from his family, later from everyone else, and, of course, deceived even his master.

    The abandonment of the laboratory pregnancies, the tipping of the scales, Plagueis's efforts to impregnate random people with his mind, and the Venamis resurrections all take place in 42 BBY. It's in the Sith'ari chapter I believe. In all cases except for "random virgin birth," Plagueis and Palpatine caused Anakin to be conceived.

    [quote=mel
  5. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Plagueis and Sidious met no resistance from the force.
    Plaguies reached out on his own after he sent Sidious back to Coruscant. IMO, Sidious had zero to do with Anakin's conception while Plagueis caused it, either by dream, by accident or by will of the force. The instant ramification was that all his test subjects died, but the big bill wouldn't get paid until Anakin matured. By whacking Plagueis, Sidious guaranteed that the Sith WOULD NOT live forever.... Ironic?

    ***

    Found what I was looking for:
    How to increase midichlorians is on the top of page 61.

  6. SithLord_1270 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
    I have the audiobook. Most of the musical cues are those of the Empire. Didn't catch the Emperor's musical cues.

    I do wish they would have had Ian read the parts for Palpatine when he was older. That for me would have been epic. At least the Palpatine part in the epilogue. But the reader for this was good.
  7. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I played the YouTube clip of Yoda babbling about the RoT.
    So certain he was, of only two Sith....


    [face_mischief]
  8. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    I don't have the book yet, and may have missed this in the thread, but what year does the Plagueis/Sidious Force shift take place in?
  9. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Sometime between 44-43 BBY.
    Page 270 provides the timeline...


  10. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    is there a review thread for this yet? I would like to see your thoughts on this without being spoiled :D

  11. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    What would you like to know?
  12. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    How good it is compared to the rest of the EU?

    A broad question sure...but i know Revan was massively hyped but people were dismayed with what we got.

    What about this?

  13. Chris Knight TFN Humor Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
  14. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Many are proclaiming it to be one of the best EU novels written. I'm only just over halfway through, so I can't fully comment... but it is good. Very, very good. Palpatine is fantastic in it.
  15. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    I'm hesitant to speak decisively on the book since I know all new things appear to be better than they are, but my belief is that Plagueis is Luceno's best book yet. Where does that place it in the whole of canon? Top three.
  16. BuddhaRich Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2009
    offhand, the only EU works that come close... Revenge of the Sith novel...Mindor...TUF...HTTE...oh nevermind. This is literally the best EU novel ever produced. Period. It's good enough to recommend to people who have never read any Star Wars outside of the movie.
  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    As noted by others, 'Darth Plagueis' was fantastic.

    I own them both and while 'Revan' had its moments, that book does not belong in the same sentence with Luceno's latest. Huge fan of the continuity-ignoring Bane series, but they do not measure up either. I wish I knew a better way to state it: but this book is the Chuck Norris of the EU.... goes without saying, but it kicks all kinds of ass.

    And then some.
  18. EntechednReformatted Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2009
    star 1
    I'm going to chime in with a contrarian viewpoint. I'm much less impressed with this novel than everyone else seems to be. Be warned! Much like a Sith Master, I plan to undermine Luceno through his greatest strength!

    As an exercise in EU continuity, it could probably be regarded as a masterpiece, but that is actually the thing that I found to be the most maddening. Plagueis himself and his quest to master life and death is surprisingly short-changed by the need to shoehorn in a reference to virtually every character in the EU who has ever used the dark side, as well as a reference to any story set in the same 40-50 year timeframe as the novel. Did we really need not one, but two references to Belia Darzu, master of the Mechno-Beasts?

    This novel is a case study in the EU's tendency to be overly self-referential, and in this case it is the novel's downfall. Rather than a tight, gripping narrative of the trajedy of Darth Plagueis, this read more like a sourcebook designed to tie many different EU threads together. There were some good scenes and interesting ideas, but as a coherent, compelling narrative, it failed for me. The story just lacked immediacy and momentum. Best example is a pretty heavy spoiler, so I'll black it out.

    There is a moment in the story when Plagueis and Sidious, working in a combined marathon meditation session, succeed in massively unbalancing the Force towards the dark side, not through any one particular act or plot, but on a purely spiritual level as they succeed in imposing their will on the Force. :eek: But in fact, this moment is not in the story. What is in the story is Plagueis reminiscing about it. "Remember when we fundamentally tipped the balance of the Force? That was cool." What a lost opportunity. That should have been told in the moment. The Unbalancing of the Force is one of the most pivotal moments in the entire saga! But oh well, more pages available to explain the political affiliations of Aks Moe.

    Towards the end, as I found myself plodding through page after page of Plagueis and Sidious discussing the significance of the events of Shadow Hunter, or Cloak of Deception, or any of a half-dozen barely-remembered Dark Horse comics, I found myself desperately wishing for a much more focused POV to this story, and more new ground to cover. This novel should have been to Plagueis what Shatterpoint was to Mace Windu or Traitor was to Jacen Solo. Ok, those are both Stover novels. But Darth Bane: POD took a similar approach, so Stover isn't the only one who can do this, he's just been the best at it.

    In the end, when Plagueis is bored to unconsciousness, I knew just how he felt.
  19. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    I don't know, while I felt the continuity references were awesome, I thought they were just flavor. The book didn't revolve around most of them, just gave an added touch; however, Luceno did an excellent job of incorporating prior canon, like the Yinchorri, Vidar Kim, and cloning, into actual major plotpoints of the novel.

    About three quarters through, and I feel the prose itself, with or without the references, is great, and the characterization is great. Palpatine is as he should be IMO; his fall is inevitable, but he wasn't born a cackling Emperor, even as it's acknowledged that, even among Force users, he's not normal.

  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Agreed. This book pays lip-service to no-one. The beauty is in the way Luceno interweaves the old with the new. No, it isn't perfect and it does raise some questions, but those things are far outweighed by awesomeness of the entire experience. This was crafted with great care and it shows.
  21. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    well then. All i can say is

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

    Such praise is mind boggling! It seems unreal, i MUST get this book now!

    I never thought it would live up to the hype!

    Of course i haven't read it but i am certain i will be very pleased with it. I enjoyed Stover's work, so this must be a given, considering i also enjoyed Luceno's work.
  22. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    Interesting...

    So, they create this shift, Plagueis actually causes pregnancies, Shmi happens to be in the area, and ~9 months later Anakin is born.

    It's said without being said.
  23. SithLord_1270 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
    Get it! U won't regret it.
  24. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Sorotf like that, here are the paraphrased-specifics should you want to spoil yourself:

    Sidious arrives at the LAB for the first time and is blown away by all that he sees and even moreso by what 11-4D tells him. Plagueis had been working on force-induced pregnancies for some time. With his rate of success greatly improving over the last month or so. The two Sith join together in harmony, and spiritually venture out into the "stream" of the force.

    They cause it to change, the dark side ascends...

    on that very same day, Plagueis showed Sidious that he had also mastered death. With the force, he killed Venamis, then he revived him. Full domination of midichlorians doesn't become evident until later on when he speaks with the former king of Naboo, but its certainly the case here. Sidious was soo stunned he was speechless. Over and over, Plagueis killed and revived Venamis through the force. So; technically speaking, he showed Sidious that is was possible, but not how to do it. He sent Sidious back to Coruscant, before he tried his next BIG feat... (the one where he touches all life, that I posted yesterday in all white) After that, he set his sights on mastering his own midichlorians. The most extreme of all force applications.

    Exactly the way I took it.
  25. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    Good question. Wasn't that a preexisting aspect of the character, though? Did his miniature figure have it?

    TC