Amph The OFFICIAL Doctor Who Episode Countdown - Nos. 3 & 4

Discussion in 'Community' started by halibut, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    I thought the opening where Ten parks the TARDIS incorrectly was funny, and I liked the very end where he lights the torch. Pretty much everything in between was bleh though.:p This was the episode I voted for as second worst. I gave it a 3.
  2. Im_just_guessing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    star 7
    I liked that it was set in the near future.
  3. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I'd forgotten about the parking til I rewatched it. Definitely a nice touch!

    Was there a specific reference to Schroedinger, or are you just referring to the fact that the cat goes into a box before disappearing?
  4. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    The latter. A subtle reference, not everyone can catch it, but that's how I like 'em. ;)
  5. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    One final thought on Fear Her. As I was watching it yesterday I thought "This would have been much better as a Sarah Jane episode."

    Anyway, I'm afraid it's time to shatter Everton's hopes and dreams. Although as an Everton fan, he should be used to it by now

    86. Love and Monsters

    7.45/20

    In this episode, an ordinary man named Elton Pope becomes obsessed with a man called the Doctor and his strange blue box, and joins a group of like-minded people in hopes of finding him. But when the mysterious Victor Kennedy joins the group, the fun stops and Elton discovers a darker side to his hobby. Peter Kay appears in the episode as an alien villain who was based in part on a design by a Blue Peter children's TV competition winner.

    [image=http://bowjamesbow.ca/images/snipshot-a41jaqb16g7p.jpg]
    [image=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__v16ajx69Mw/RjHR60PjJLI/AAAAAAAAANw/grr5h9xP3Lk/s400/chase.jpeg]

    According to wiki, " The episode features allusions to all of the first three annual story story arcs in the revived programme; mention of the "Bad Wolf virus" affecting "Torchwood Institute files" was inserted into the script to cover a potential plothole in the two-part series finale, and is the first episode to include series three's recurrent motif."

    I don't recall any reference to Saxon. But anyway on to the episode which I have also just rewatched.
    Sigh. There are a couple of good bits, but are vastly outweighed by the tripe. I did enjoy the stuff with Jackie. There I said it.

    Now onto the rubbish. The opening is just soooo slow. The first 10 minutes is a guy talking into a camera. You have that little scene with the weevil (or whatever) which is completely destroyed by a stupid Scooby-doo corridor thing.

    The first few scenes with LINDA are ok until Peter Kay shows up. What a dreadful piece of casting. The whole episode falls apart from that point on. And just when you think it can't get any worse, we get a "gag" about oral sex with a paving slab.

    This is definitely the low point for Who. The 2 worst episodes back to back.

    Lowest Score - 1
    Highest Score - 14 (wonder who did that)
  6. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    I have to say, I know it's campy and just pretty lousy in general, but the heart in Love and Monsters is undeniable. I really liked the overall story. I guess execution counts for a lot, though.
  7. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Just to add, if the "mystery person" who gave the episode 14/20 and given it 3/20 instead, it would still not have come lower than Fear Her.
  8. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    What I really dislike about "Love and Monsters" is how LINDA (who are basically the representation of Doctor Who fans) are portrayed as a bunch of weirdos. I get this smugly superior feeling of "Aww, but they're all really nice and everything... but they're still weirdos." I find it borderline insulting. The oral sex allusion is just the last straw.
  9. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    It's definitely not among my favorites, but I feel there are plenty of worse episodes. I actually quite enjoyed Elton and his narration, and his scenes with Jackie. I think the main problem with the episode is the villain, who I absolutely hate. Sorry contest winner kid. The ending was also a let-down. In the end though I still ranked a full 15 episodes lower than this.
  10. Darth_Daver Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2005
    star 5
    I had both of these in my bottom 5, but not the bottom 2. Completely agree Love & Monsters was mainly let down by the villain.
  11. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I watched the Confidential on the episode and they seemed to think it was a great idea to have

    1) Hardly any Doctor
    2) A monster designed by a child
    3) Said monster portrayed by Peter Kay

    Sadly those 3 things are the biggest failings
  12. Rebel_Padawan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2003
    star 4
    Oops I need to catch up...

    Fear Her: I am really surprised that something so poor was written by Matthew Graham. Surely one of the minds behind Life on Mars could have come up with something significantly better? Perhaps I can blame what may have been a very restrictive 'shopping list' of requirements from RTD? Though I'm not a fan of Graham's other Who episodes either, but I'm sure we well get to those in time...

    Love & Monsters: On initial viewing I remember loving this episode for everything except the concrete slab joke at the end. It was fun and knowingly silly and I was ok with that.
  13. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    "Fear Her" was a last minute replacement for a Stephen Fry-penned episode that was eventually scrapped. Graham's excuse is that he had literally no time to write a proper episode. And after the Gangers two-parter, I forgive him completely. :)
  14. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Feel free to guess what the next episode will be!
  15. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    This a great victory for Love & Monsters. In the face of hatred, and misunderstanding, that this episode has managed to achieve such a lofty chart position is something to be proud of. I am honoured to support such a maligned work, and feel sure that in the years to come, hitting the heights of 85th place is not out of the question. :p

    Seriously though, I genuinely don't get why this episode is despised so. I posted my thoughts on it a few months ago in this thread and a short search has failed to track them down. It's full of heart, though... harmless comedy and genuine (whether you think it too childish) tragedy. The further establishing of the myth of The Doctor is great, and FOR ME, Kay's villain is genuinely scary. Yes, he's played for laughs as well, but the basic nature of a sudden and irreversible (no reset button) absorbing process is just horrid. Plus, he's a social predator... something that's really disturbing.

    I do accept that the oral sex joke at the end of wholly out of place, though. I've always wished that Ursula couldn't have been retrieved from the paving slab, to be honest. So yes, that was a massive misstep for a family show, but I did only give it 14. To focus on that gag (which appears right at the very end) is really harsh.
    Thing is, there are people like that... and what I think everyone misses is that despite the lonely and socially unsuited place in which they are positioned, LINDA shows that in the right circumstances anyone can get on in life. Sure, LINDA is only a small step, but sometimes all people ask for is small steps, and I don't think we should judge. Their meetings may appear 'dorky' (and they do) but they are also charming, and reduced to their most basic level... so normal. People with similar interests enjoying each other's company. How different is that to all of us collecting on here to discuss Doctor Who each week? I know that in the process we're not escaping a lonely life like the members of LINDA, but some people would still label us weirdos for it. We know we're not, of course. It's all about what makes you happy. LINDA's members just want to be liked, be loved, and enjoy the company of their peers. Like all of us. I think it's heartwarming when Ursula realises that Elton wants to go out with her.

    And I don't think they're supposed to be representative of Doctor Who fans, either. Although they are all honest, good people... and although I'm not a 'weirdo' I do like to think I am those things. I just think the episode required the victims to be vulnerable individuals... needed people reaching out for company because they couldn't find it elsewhere. That's where the tragedy lies. That's Victor Kennedy's 'in'. Yes, he dangles the prospect of The Doctor infront of them, but their underlying vulnerability permits said dangling. Kennedy is a social predator, there to take advantage of the vulnerable... and let's be clear, there are real people like Kennedy who aren't Abzorbaloffs, and real victims out there who aren't looking for a mysterious Time Lord. Underneath the sillyness there are innocent people's lives destroyed. That's awful.

    I think there's more to this episode than people give it credit for. It's not perfect, or even great, but it's not terrible. :)

    But... that's all a bit deep. Yeah, Love & Monsters is a bit silly, yeah it wears too many hearts on it's sleeve, and it really went for it in casting Peter Kay, but I feel it hits more than it misses and would be sad had it never been made (not that I'd know if it hadn't, of course. :p ).

    I suppose there will always be examples of one person liking something the rest hate. Love & Monsters is mine.

    And in further support
  16. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    You really do love that shirt don't you!

    Anyway, going back to your comments. Yes, it's not a well received episode. But it scored over 7/20 which ain't bad.

    I think its biggest problem is that it's just not "Who"

    And I don't know if you're trying to rile me with your "it's got heart" comment, but I'll bite. Closing Time had loads of heart, yet you hated it.

    All that said, I did enjoy my rewatch of the episode. And apparently the Saxon reference is in a newspaper article saying he's getting the lead in the polls. And there's a reference to Clom, one of the disappearing planets in Season 4, so this episode has references to all 4 RTD season arcs.

    But it's just not Doctor Who. It's fun, but it's in the wrong series.
  17. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    It's a different shirt! But I like that sort of shirt, yes. :p

    And Closing Time had heart, but it was just rubbish with it. Re-hash of a plot and a lousy one at that. But we should probably leave that until Closing Time actually comes up in the chart (which hopefully will be soon. :p ).


    EDIT: But I'll take your point about it not really being Doctor Who. Hadn't really thought about that before now.
  18. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    You are not going to appreciate my vote for the two parter then...:p

    Ganger!Jennifer was just intolerable most of the time, and if it hadn't been for the whole Doctor switcheroo thing with Amy my vote would not have been decent at all. Aaaaanyway, let's leave that for later...

    Everton: Speak for yourself about not being a weirdo.;)
  19. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    85. Aliens of London

    7.45/20

    The Doctor takes Rose back to 21st century London, just in time to witness a spaceship crashing into the River Thames, triggering a worldwide state of alert and the closing off of the city. As the Doctor investigates the survivor of the crash, Rose finds problems closer to home.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Aliens_of_London.jpg]
    [image=http://www.russelltdavies.com/communities/5/004/005/333/025/images/4509620865.jpg]



    Lowest score - 4
    Highest score - 13



    84. World War Three

    7.54/20

    As the Doctor, Rose Tyler and their new friend Harriet Jones battle the murderous Slitheen while trapped in 10 Downing Street, the Doctor realises that the fate of the Earth rests on Rose's boyfriend, Mickey.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/World_War_3_%28Doctor_Who%29.jpg]
    [image=http://s3.sidereel.com/episodes/70313/featured/1cb.1.5.jpg]


    Lowest score - 4
    Highest score - 13



    83. Boomtown

    7.8/20

    The Doctor, Rose and Jack travel to modern-day Cardiff and meet up with Rose's boyfriend, Mickey. There, they discover that a recent enemy is very much alive, and is willing to destroy the planet to ensure her freedom.

    [image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Boom_Town.jpg]
    [image=http://ravereader.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dw_boom-town_group.jpg]

    Lowest score - 1
    Highest score - 14




    I don't really know where to begin with these episodes. I've stuck them together as they do appear in this order in the list, and it's pretty much a trilogy, and it's more than I can bear to talk about the Slitheen on one day, let alone two.

    Yet, the odd thing is I enjoyed the two-parter the first time I saw it. But I didn't know too much about Doctor Who at that point (as I'd only seen Fear Her, and the 3 episodes that come before this). Now when I look back, it's just....well, puerile. Silly masks. fart jokes. This is the Phantom Menace of the Whoniverse.

    As for Boomtown. For me, it's like The Silence wrote this episode. After watching it, I remember nothing about it. When I watched it the second time, it was like a new episode. And now again, I remember nothing about it. Apart from some funny bits with whatsherface trying to kill the Doctor at dinner. But it's really a yawnfest.

    But what this two-parter gave us was the inimitable Harriet Jones which is a plus. And it gave me some great locations to find in London

    Five episodes gone, and they are pretty much my worst five, so it's all looking up from here!
  20. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    I like Boomtown more than TAOL/WW3. Mostly because there's only one Slytheen instead of many. :p And the Doctor is given some moral dilemma to brood on. Another plus is Captain Jack, although I really, REALLY dislike the haircut he sports here and in the rest of Series 1.
  21. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    AoL/WW3 are just dire. I, too, re-watched them only recently... expecting something good after so long away from them... but no. I can just about buy that a certain type of alien cramping itself into a 'human body suit' might produce unpleasant by-products. I mean, not many aliens in sci-fi are ever acknowledged to have bodily functions... and one Slitheen does at one point identify it as problems with 'gas exchange'... but as with most ideas in RTD's era it falls apart in the execution. In general, absurdly dumb.

    On the credit side, the introduction of Harriet Jones is notable. She's a good character, I think. And the relationship between Rose and the Doctor here is particularly solid.

    Boom Town, I think is a little better than most give it credit for. It doesn't have much going on, and Margaret's plan is typically RTD stupid (surf-board... oh jeez). But if you bypass that there are some good scenes... Margaret and The Doctor go to dinner... the developments in Rose and Mickey's relationship. There are also good performances (save John Barrowman who is obviously still 'finding' the character)... Noel Clarke gives a good display as Mickey (emotionally vulnerable and confused - showing talents that would eventually see him safely away from Doctor Who into more challenging projects)... and Annette Badland is (IMHO) brilliant as Margaret. In a predominantly silly role, she really does give out a sense of menace and occasionally even heartache. Finally, reading the Wikipedia entry for the episode I noticed this:
    Margaret tells the Doctor that he is "always looking on because you dare not look back". Davros echoes those words almost exactly three years later.
    I can't help but like that. So yeah, Boom Town isn't great or even particularly good, but it's not without it's moments.
  22. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    Aliens of London/World War Three is an embarrassment--and I hate that it's in the first season, because when I'm introducing the show to people, it's almost a deal breaker that early on(especially when I sort of cringe at nearly all of the first season's episodes at least a little bit already). If I wasn't invested in watching the show--when I did the first time--for a game I was playing at the time, I probably would have stopped watching at that point.
  23. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    Adds to the case for introducing newbies at The Eleventh Hour, I suppose. :p
  24. darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2007
    star 5
    Just catching up a bit...glad Fear Her and Love and Monsters got Last and Second to Last Places. Doing it right.

    Aliens of London/WW3...what can you say about these episodes? These were essentially the eps that got me interested in Doctor Who, not for the Doctor, but for the secret alien invasion idea. I liked that idea. But it was executed horridly.

    Boomtown, however, I liked. I really enjoyed 9 going up against a foe whom he's not sure about. Dinner scene was great.

    But otherwise, these are the dregs of the series, and belong near the bottom.
  25. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    These were three of the episodes that I scored below Love and Monsters. I actually enjoyed all three of these episodes the first time I watched them, but they haven't held up. I actually like AoL/WW3 better than Boom Town because while the latter had the dinner scene, which I agree is a highlight, there wasn't much else good about it at all. The two parter had the introduction of Harriet Jones, and I also like how they dealt with Mickey and Jackie and how Rose was apparently gone for a year. The Slitheen are pretty damn stupid though. I hated the "gas exchange" thing the first time I saw the episode, because while it was semi-believable it felt like just an excuse to make fart jokes. I hate the chase scenes in WW3. The pig alien is annoying (What is with RTD and pigs? They were in Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks too...).

    These three episodes were low points in Series 1, and it's too bad because I find most of the other episodes pretty decent (and the fat two parter is one of my absolute favorites). It makes it harder to get people to stay on the series with this trash in the beginning, though I still am adamant that people should start with Nine.:p