The *Official* Duchess Satine Kryze in The Clone Wars Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by ZEM, Jan 29, 2010.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I disagree. If your definition were that of pacifism, then all pacifists would be wusses. I don't believe that for a second. And I consider myself a pacifist. Opposition to war does not mean opposition to self-preservation.

    Here is one definition from dictionary.com:

    3.
    the principle or policy that all differences among nations should be adjusted without recourse to war.

    And not starting fights hasn't been the default in a very long time when one looks at US foreign policy. I'd say that's also true of several other countries. Switzerland and Costa Rica could be considered pacifist but I have a hard time believing that they wouldn't defend themselves if attacked.

    As far as peace taking power to enforce, yeah, that's what the Emperor and Vader said.

    A Bo-Katan thread? Yes, please.
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  2. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Sometimes heroes fall despite their strength.


    Why wasn't it in the actual episodes?
  3. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Why didn't Obi-wan die in the actual episode? Is that the question?
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 11, 2013
  4. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, but I don't think that's quite what Slowpokeking was alluding to. It's more along the lines of Sikhs and Buddhist monks: as pacifist people in possession of valuable holdings, such as their fortress-like temples, they became magnets for aggressors seeking to claim what they had without a fight. So the Sikhs and Buddhists learned self-defense, and while they remained pacifists, the infamy of their prowess often held would-be attackers at bay for fear of poking a hornet's nest.

    That is peace through power. And it's a principle actually touched upon by the warrior clans later in Mandalorian society, with the advent of the kadikla movement. Kadikla preached the importance of building a Mandalorian state so strong that the Mandalorian people wouldn't need to fight, because no outside power would attempt to attack them, with more domestically available jobs than foreign mercenary and bounty hunter work. It's effectively the New Mandalorian ideal, but rendered more practically.

    I assume it was just a buzz phrase created for previews, the same as Count Dooku's line "Everything you fought for will be destroyed..." and the reshuffling of many lines from Pre Vizsla's speeches.
  5. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    No, I just think it would be a good line for her to say.

    I admit I'm more of a fan of the Sith than Jedi especially after this incident, but even in real life, only with enough power and defense, you will have peace, of course the Sith went too extreme for that.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Feb 11, 2013
  6. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    I know, I know, but we have to at least pretend to look at this from a perspective of someone who enjoys Ahsoka. ;) Seriously though, she should be able to flesh out Anakin and still have her own strong character arc. But that would be called "good writing."
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  7. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Only going into wars that are necessary is common sense, not pacifism. I prefer the more extreme definition of pacifism because otherwise it hardly makes sense to differentiate in the first place.
  8. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    So how do you guys think you would have felt if Satine fought back before the end?
  9. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I would have liked to have had her make more of an effort to contradict Viszla when addressing the crowds, etc. - try to fight with words as is her wont rather than just shut up and back off.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Given the extreme lack of common sense in the US government over the past 60 years or so, I think the less extreme version still qualifies. Apparently nobody believes in only going into wars that are necessary anymore, and I don't like pacifists being made to look spineless.

    I would have preferred that she fight back from the time the Black Sun and Pike invaded her planet rather than running away squealing, but if she had fought back at any point, I would have much more respect for her. I liked her in Season 2 and I'm sad that that characterization was lost.
  11. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    Anakinfan, you don't get it, she's a pacifist. A pacifist.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Which apparently means she can do nothing but stand there or run, according to TCW writers.
  13. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Satine's version of pacifism:
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  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Now I want to watch that movie again.
  15. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    I'm not sure there's much else he could have done in that situation anyway.
  16. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    Can't resist liking that video. <<;
  17. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    This also remind me of the Jedi in this incident.
  18. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I like the fact that Satine stayed true to her pacifist beliefs. It can be mistaken for lack of courage but is arguably more courageous in less obvious ways. A lot of people have "beliefs" that get shredded up when they become inconvenient. Sticking to your beliefs facing down the barrel of a gun takes more nerve than probably anyone here has. And I'm not someone who's a big fan of Satine in particular, I'm defending the notion of pacifism.

    That said, the character of Satine is kind of screwed because she seemed to go back on her pacifist beliefs in Corruption when she engaged in violence. So now it seems that she was willing to abandon her pacifist ideology in the name of poisoned tea and the children, but then went back to and stuck with it in the most extreme of circumstances as her planet was literally being overrun by warmongers. If it doesn't ruin, it at least greatly weakens the whole character.
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  19. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Move a step away from her belief is not to ruin it, but keep it alive. She knew that well in Corruption but was ruined in Season 5.
  20. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Doing the polar opposite of what a belief would have one do keeps it alive? How, exactly?
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  21. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    After Corruption, is Mandalore in peace? Yes, is her faction in power? Yes.

    After Lawless, is Mandalore in peace? No, is her faction in power? No, it died with her.

    That's how politics works, you can't be too extreme, compromise with others to keep your faction alive is usually wise. Especially when you are facing the threat of annihilation.
  22. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    You seem to be arguing the ends justify the means, which is a separate debate, but regardless of the answer to that, the means here is abandoning one's ideology, not keeping it alive. The ends justifying the means doesn't mean you didn't change your ideology, it means you're justified in doing so. It's still changed.
  23. Seerow SWTV★Mod

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    What? After Corruption, Mandalore was... corrupt. Her faction was hanging on to the power just barely. It was apparently Almec that was making it possible for her to hang onto power. Satine had been losing her grip on Mandalore for a long time. According to Satine herself in "Shades of Reason" the people were making sacrifices. It seems to me like that all came to a head as Satine's people got behind Vizsla since they didn't believe in her anymore. A King Duchess is nothing without her people.

    Satine herself didn't sound like she had any confidence, she just sounded tired and beaten down. I felt really sorry for her because I felt that cell in "Shades of Reason" may have been the only real peace Satine knew for a long time. Look at how bored and out of it she seemed in "A Friend in Need" sitting there in the background. Its the effect of suffering so many betrayals from people she trusted. All her power was long gone by the time Maul finally killed her.

    Some people are stubborn and stick to there belief until their last breath no matter. Some would rather die than change. Stupid or brave? A bit of both... for what its worth she lost her kingdom sticking to her beliefs. She lost her life because Maul has always planned to kill her infront of Obi-wan as part of his revenge.
    Last edited by Seerow, Feb 14, 2013
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  24. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I'm sorry but you have to, it's just like in the movie Lincoln, Lincoln said he didn't try to abolish slavery from the beginning because they got a war to fight and he didn't want to lose others' support.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    LOL, nobody "has to" do anything. People make decisions based on which consequences are either more beneficial or least painful.
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