Fanclub The Official EUC Grey Jedi Fan Club - Unknown, unseen and unsung

I'm of the opinion that the Force can influence any agent to restore balance unto itself. The Grey jedi are simply more mindful of that need. Restoring an 'imbalance' seems to be hugely contradictory to their role, imo. Either way, this is all hypothetical. Despite differences, it seems we are more or less agreeing on the basics. The details need not be written in stone, as nothing concerning Star Wars is.

 

Yes, but they never reveal themselves as such. Instead, they work under a cover and disguise themselves as other Force users or beings, such as the whills in the case of Qui-Gon learning to go Force ghost. Another one of my headcanons is that the Jedi piloting Zonama Sekotan fighters in the Second Battle of Coruscant (Yuuzhan Vong War) were actually Grey Jedi from the order on Zonama Sekot .

This is all fanon, obviously, but it's done so in a way that it doesn't necessarily contradict canon (or legends canon, in the case of the example I just mentioned). Plus, there isn't much of the Grey Jedi in canon in the first place, so fanon is something that has to be done.

And yes, I agree with you greyjedi125; . They never act unless the Force tells them to.

 

very interesting thread and more in-line with what I think philosophically about the force and how it's agents should think.

and thank you to DarthIshyZ for the link invite

I'll be watching this thread with curious interest.

 

Welcome, Dandelo; !

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Welcome, Dandelo

I hope your stay is an enjoyable one. Force be with you.

 

Kev-Mas and greyjedi (and, yes, welcome Dandelo), I think this difference of opinion is good, overall. It may yet play out in our little passion play. How do we, as a group, respond to a "threat"? Some folks will be joiners and some won't.

I think the big difference is that the Jedi and Sith expect their members to follow orders and "just do it." How will the Grey approach things?

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I'm, actually very excited about exploring the deeper meanings and motivations about grey jedi within our 'passion play' ( well said my friend ). There is no doubt that there will be differences, the real question is, on what exactly will they agree on. Let's continue to watch and learn.

 

I think more or less that the Grey Jedi would just allow those who want to act to act and let those who don't want to act sit back. Essentially, they'd provide teaching and guidance, but they wouldn't provide rules. If a disagreement is made, it would be settled by simply allowing both parties to do their own thing and figure out who was right from there. If problems were caused from a Grey Jedi that wanted to act doing so, then those problems would likely affect said Grey Jedi negatively and in the end it would serve as a learning experience.

A Grey Jedi doesn't learn from being told not to do certain things, but from being allowed to do those things with the understanding that the end result might not be something they like.

We don't pretend to know all there is to know about the Force, because of how large it is in scale. There are many mysteries that we still do not know, and it is only by allowing ourselves to find out for ourselves what will happen if we act or do not act that we can learn about them. Restricting ourselves restricts our knowledge and restricts our wisdom.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, Kev-Mas, but I don't know if you can speak for all Greys.

This is a political question: do we go to war? The answser depends on each person's affiliations and experiences. I can see some of the group being hawks and some being doves. Gildar might say "Let's kill 'em all" because he was so abused. Or he could say "let's not get involved" because he fears being taken again. Or (if he's like me) he might just take an opposing stance just for further understanding (and, in some ways, just for ***** and giggles).

Each person's politics is theirs and theirs alone.

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Well that goes along with what I'm saying. I think that if a Grey Jedi wants to go to war they can do so if they want, but no one Grey Jedi speaks for the whole and as such they all act individually. If they're not the only ones to do said action, great. But there's always going to be voices that disagree with you and mandating that they do only weakens the potential for growth.

I don't speak for all Greys. I just guide them using the knowledge that I have learned. I've been at this for well over a decade IRL and much of the philosophy I speak is based off of things I have learned from experience and careful study. I don't claim that I know all there is to know but I do claim to know what I have learned.

 

I used to live in Washington DC, so I guess you could say I've been debating topics for 20+ years.

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I'm so sorry

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The Grey Jedi would have likely stayed out of serving the Republic entirely, at least for a time during the Clone Wars. I can't see any of them joining the Separatists, since it's pretty common knowledge that Dooku is a Sith among the Jedi Order. Grey Jedi don't strike me as ones to join the Sith, even though they may not seek to eradicate them like the Jedi do.

 

It's going to be interesting when we get to that point. I'm hearing you folks all saying the Grey would be against joining the war. I'm saying, in any group, there are some hawks and some doves. I think you're all going to be a bit surprised (even if I need to make Gildar that hawk in the room.)

 

You do realize the cultural background my guy has? I'm not even sure which way he would jump

 

TBH, I love seeing characters struggle to reconcile their background with their current position.

Let me change the question a bit. We're talking about the GFFA balance tilting towards darkness. Would you all feel the same if it was tilting toward light? After all, the Sith, although assumed extinct, had kept the balance in the galaxy by existing in secret. Would there be any objection after the events in ROTJ?

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Before I even venture to answer, I will need a more concrete example, since there has been no presentation in SW of how a prosperous galaxy full of Light can be 'bad'( at least not that I know of ). So, I'll take any example at this point.

EDIT: Would you all feel the same if it was tilting toward light?

My initial response to this specific question is , No. I would not feel the same, because it's in all respects, a different situation.

 

I would say yes. Although it takes a much longer time for the light to reach that tipping point than the darkside of the Force. The light in a way was reaching that tipping point by Episode II, although it likely would of puttered on for a hundred or two hundred years yet before it reached it naturally. The sith expedited matters and in a way expedited their own turning point as well.

 

Please explain to me how the light was reaching a tipping point? I'm not seeing that, so you have my undivided attention, and thank you.

 

I think I see what he's saying. The light (Jedi Order) was "drinking it's own Cool-Aid" and not doing what needed to be done. They could be used as an "example to others" on how to live a good life for others, but they weren't recognizing their own dark side, just suppressing it. They couldn't do that forever because people would start cheating their way through. Such as Anakin getting married in private or Vos being trained in murder. Cracks formed in the thin veneer.

At the risk of angering some here, it's similar to the problems the Catholic Church ran into a few years ago and is still struggling to reconcile.

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I'm going to be rather verbose here, so please bear with me.

I think that it's important to realize how difficult this question is to answer simply, and just exactly why it is difficult. The Star Wars movies were all told in the point of view that glorified and honored the Jedi, and at the same time vilified the Sith. We sometimes have stories in the Expanded Universe telling stories from a "dark side" point of view (such as the new disney Darth Vader comic books where they pretty much had a mirror version of the "main heroes" from the OT), but even though sometimes it's told that they sometimes have good intentions, those few examples are usually just fringe elements and when looked at as a whole they still portray the "dark side" as evil. Then, in the old KOTOR comics where the Jedi covenant were portrayed as the bad guys, the good guy was STILL A JEDI.

In general, the point of view that we are constantly given in the Star Wars universe is that the light is good and the dark is bad, and they never really give us any moral ambiguity to help us escape that black and white dogma... except, ironically, from some of the same characters the movies elevate to a higher moral standing. Obi-Wan, for example.

These rare little bits of wisdom encountered from characters that frequently otherwise espouse a very narrow black and white way of thinking tend to be overlooked in the same way certain "good intentioned" Sith like Vectivus and "ill intentioned" Jedi like the Jedi covenant don't seem to make an impact on the franchise's very blatant focus on the Jedi being good and the Sith being evil. They are some of the deepest and most sensible pieces of philosophy given to us in the movies, but why are they glossed over? Simply because the point of view they give us is a rare outlying piece of the whole.

So, to relate this question to the aforementioned Obi-Wan quote, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Commonly we might make the mistake that just because the influence a Sith has on the Force can be perceived as more damaging towards balance than the Jedi's influence, that balance tilting towards the light would be seen as okay. However, this observation is commonly made from a certain point of view, the one that is given to us by practically all material the franchise has to offer us. This point of view obviously being in favor of the Jedi. In all reality, the Sith might actually be less damaging to the balance of the Force than the Jedi are. It highlights the terrible things that the Sith did to obtain their hold on the Galaxy, but glosses over the many evil things the Jedi did to maintain their hold.

Things like the very way they keep their numbers up, by practically kidnapping children from families "for the greater good". Guess who also did terrible things for the "greater good"? That's right, Palpatine. Our minds are trained to see the things that were done by Palpatine did as more severe because they were more blatant, violent acts and they gained more coverage. Palpatine did a lot of killing in the name of the greater good while the Jedi did a lot of kidnapping. Depending on your point of view, however, you might see kidnapping as a more malicious act (at least in the way the Jedi did it, which is coupled with brainwashing and indoctrination from a very young and impressionable age), and you'd have plenty of justification to support your cause if you did.

So with that further evaluation, it's pretty clear that you can't simply choose favorites when it comes to anything. Impartiality is key when making decisions, especially when it comes to such delicate matters as this. Most definitely if after ROTJ the Jedi started gaining power in the same way that they maintained their power in the days of the Old Republic it would start to cause an imbalance. Doubly so considering that the Sith were all but dead and all that were left were a few Imperial Dark Jedi (who were also restricted from reaching a certain level of power by the Emperor's paranoia of other Force users - he only allowed them to reach the power that he needed them to reach to be useful tools and had them killed off if they went beyond that) that were doomed to kill each other off eventually with the power vacuum that ensued after the Emperor's death.

 

I agree with most of the afore mentioned points about the Jedi order but that was not where my mind first went.

What I was initially pointing to was the point that Yoda made in Episode II whilst riding his floating hover chair. The problem as Obi-won first framed it.

Obi-Wan: But he still has much to learn, Master. His abilities have made him... well arrogant.
Yoda: Yes. Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones.

So, how many good people do you know who are arrogant? Oversure of their abilities? How many of these are kind individuals? The Jedi were losing their way, and the slope was about to tip in a generation or two to where the Jedi would not only be minimally doing good in the galaxy, they were on the brink of being a negative impact and presence on the galaxy. Something that can also be seen on how easily they were vilified by the Emperor. It was not just that nobody had seen Jedi and so took him at his word, instead the good and humble were starting to be rare and those that looked down upon the average person were becoming more the common norm that others knew. The peace might of been kept, but also they were keeping only one peace by and large, the peace of the Republic, this too is a failing that they had already failed before the Clone Wars when they took sides in wars based on resources and not what was right when they sided against Grievous' people who were their allies in their war with an insectoid race the Republic wanted to add as a member to get access to the resources instead of the resource poor people they already were allied to.

These are just my highlights though.

 

I think what Mitth_Fisto said answers my question to a better degree. Because the Jedi are 'Failing the Light'. Their failure is clearly NOT a tipping towards the light, but rather away from it. Hence, inherently, an example has NOT been presented where tipping towards the light is construed as some form as imbalance, but merely that the Jedi have failed their duty, and no longer uphold that which they have been charged to represent and carry out.

Good arguments all around gentlemen.

 

Good morning all!

Have a (2nd) job interview today folks. 1:30 PM ET.