The Official Fate of the Jedi III: Abyss Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Right. Keeping in mind that I don't know what the spirit heads are or what they represent, I am merely taking a stab at all of this. First, I thought Mara's mute Force Ghost was a divergence from canon to begin with - I would expect her to return Obi-Wan style. Second, if the spirit heads are associated with those who are one with the Force, then I feel that we are getting insight into what is happening with them. Anakin seemed to be little concerned with the galaxy - dwelling almost exclusively on the enlighenment associated with being one with the Force. That is what I felt all those one with the Force would do, whether or not they continued to have galactic concerns. So for me, Mara and Jacen introduced an idea that was distinct. Like Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin Skywalker, they still retained galactic concerns, but in the Netherworld, the enlightenment consisted of ruminating over one's past sins, perhaps as a form of self growth or what have you - and suffering to various degrees. But in my head, suffering with bad feelings or feeling like one is in damnation wouldn't be a part of their existence because even if this type of consideration was undertaken by those one with the Force, it would be done from a more enlightened viewpoint than those on the galactic plane could undertake. It wouldn't be seen as suffering to any degree - just a period of growth or enlightenment. Again, that was what I personally settled on after ROTJ - not saying it was Lucas' intent - but it allowed for a happy ending in my head, which I felt was his intent.

Of course, the spirit heads may not represent those keeping their identity in the Force and something else altogether. So it is possible that none of what I have said is truly applicable.

 

I hope thats not the case
I am thinking along the same lines you are as to what these "ghosts" are

I hope it doesnt turn into some big tease and end up not being Jacen, Anakin and Mara at all

 

Yes, I think Dab Hantaq should be mind-wiped somehow, and then Anakin Solo's mind could go into his body somehow (maybe a duplicate copy of his mind resides in the maw installation as well), and then Anakin and Tahiri could be together again.

 

No, I haven't. I do know that the One Sith exist in that possible future. It would be interesting to see a Sith civil war.

 

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I basically called most of the stuff that Jacen revealed(minus any Abeloth things) down the the tee and most people thought I was crazy .

I'm glad there was some sort of closure on his character and we finally got to see that he was working towards a noble and real goal in LOTF. I always felt too many people misinterpretted it as a misguided and blunderous trip to the dark side. As I expected, he knew what he was doing.

Makes me feel a lot better about that series.

 

I dont think his goals were ever in doubt or misunderstood, they were pretty clear throughout LotF
I think it was the way he went about it that people felt was misguided and blunderous, as any trip to the dark side ends up, his being no exception really

I think it was also obvious that he knew what he was doing, just that people disagreed that it is right to do evil even if you might have a noble goal
Now the noble goal of his i think is open for debate, as when someone says that their type of peace is the only way possible, usually means that they are not open for any compromise at all, and end up killing anyone who disagrees with them


I agree with you though, seeing Jacen in Abyss and how he was definitely made me feel better about LotF
I was half-expecting to see him back in NJO-form and saying he was wrong and sorry for everything he did
Makes him much more interesting of a charactor this way
Hopefully that wasnt some ruse, and was actually him in Abyss
I have a feeling it was, hopefully that will end up right

 

Out of curiosity, why do you feel that spirit Jacen being more in tune with his LOTF persona than his TUF persona would be more interesting? I mean being in the Netherworld and able to reflect on his life (if that is what is going on), wouldn't it make more sense for him to start recognizing where he went wrong? Or at least how much he'd diverged from his TUF persona? Not that I disagree because whatever depiction they come up with would be interesting to me - but I am just curious.

 

I just mean i am glad he wasnt instantly completely over his Sith ways and ideas

I think its a bit more realistic for Jacen to not just flip a switch and be 100% jedi again, even in death

He fell for logical reasons, though his actions were wrong
I am glad he didnt disregard all of that instantly and become Luke 2.0


I like that he didnt be like, ok yes, I was 100% wrong for the past couple years of actions

That leads to things like Kyp in JAT, where, since he is sorry, then all is forgiven instantly
Its such a nice neat instant ending, that doesnt seem to fit here

So i like where it is heading

 

Jacen wasn't much of a Jedi from Traitor onward... Most people forget, Jacen differed and actively debated his view on the force with Luke even before his force trip vs Onimi.

I would still classify him as a good guy up until Betrayal. Remember, Jedi aren't the only good guy force users in the galaxy.

To say is actions were wrong is a bit close minded imo. Acknowledge that there are potentially many different ways to go about a situation without any of them being 'wrong'.

Why would Jacen apologize when he's sacrificed his life and soul for the galaxy? That's obviously his view and he feels it is confirmed by Luke's words to him.

Comparing his trip to the dark side to Kyp's is a bit silly seeing as Kyp didn't have anywhere near the underlining motives Jacen had.

 

yeah i would agree that up until the end of Betrayal, he was still a good guy

no, its just my opinion of his actions based on his actions and the effects they had and were intended to have
I dont know who isnt acknowledging that there are many different ways to go about any situation

Personally, i view that if someone thinks his way is the only way for something to happen, and kills anyone who disagrees, i think that is wrong

If others dont agree, that is perfectly fine
It helps bring out discussion to hear all points of view

Like i said, i am glad that he didnt just apologize
It would have been completely out of charactor for him to flip instantly
His fall was gradual and thought out, so he wont instantly come back either

No one is comparing it to Kyp?
Like I said, i am glad he didnt just flip back to a sweet perfect Jedi after he died like Kyp did because they are completely different situations
Kyp's was a little less believable because of that, though i suppose being brainwashed by a Sith makes it a little more believable

too often it seems that Jedi fall or have brushes with the dark side and then when they come back around, it supposedly has no lasting effect on them at all
Like, whoops, i am sorry, and then all is forgiven and everyone moves on instantly
Not really too convincing most of the time (aka Jaina in DJ)

 

I see what you mean. However, major catastrophes or upheavals in a person's life does at times bring about rather quick changes - and I'd rank death pretty much up there near the top . But I was thinking more along the lines of it having been two years already and if Jacen was the same dude we saw at the end of Invincible - well what's he been doing all this time? Partying? Two years of day in and day out reflection is a long time when you don't have anything else to do that we know of. That is why I do think he understood that he owed an apology to Luke and Ben - not for who he'd been, but for the pain and anguish he'd caused them. And even then he'd only be opening the door for them to provide forgiveness for their own sakes and well being in life - it isn't like he'd be around to interact with them and take advantage of the forgiveness.

 

yeah i think that is how it will end up at some point, and i think that is actually how Jacen will end up leaving damnation, or wherever he is

But i dont think he was quite there in Abyss yet, because, as you said, its not for who he'd been, its for what he did to his family that he should apologize for
And he doesnt need to wait for them to come around to do so, he just needs to mean it sincerely, and since he is with the force, it will be known as truth

I think that is how the series will end, with Jacen being fully redeemed in some way and in the eyes of his family


but again, we dont really know enough now, and are just making speculations, so who the heck knows

 

You also have to consider was that really a Force Ghost of Jacen that Luke and Ben saw? Usually Force Ghosts come out on their own. Luke and Ben were in the Maw, which has enough mystery surrounding it. Was it Abeloth showing them something based on what was on their minds, or what she wants them to see. Just a thought.

 

oh definitely
I am thinking it was, if not force ghosts of them all, at least some part of them, given Luke's statement "it was him" or whatever he said

but yeah, considering where they were, and that Luke and Ben were "out of their body" or whatever it was, it is a definite posibility that they were just some figments from Abeloth or something else

 

hmnn. i don't know, i really think they are force ghosts. i mean they were awfully true to character, cept for maybe Mara. I don't see Mara being sorry at all.

 

One thing that this series touches on is justice. Jedi should be accountable for their crimes. I hate to say it, but Tahiri should go to jail for her crimes against the Republic.

 

She has an excuse though. Temporary insanity due to mental Sith Lord. If anything she should get jailed for sexually abusing Ben.

 

I would agree that she should be jailed. If we let Tahiri off because of Jacen's influence; we could equally let Jacen off because of Lumiya's influence. Both Jacen and Tahiri retained their freedom of choice in making their decisions and should be held responsible for them. This is different from redemption of course - that should always be tried, rather or not the person is made to pay for their crimes.

 

I don't know if it has already been suggested or not, but am I the only one who might see some potential in Vestara becomming a love interest for Ben?
I mean, they're one year appart from each other and now with the whole blood bond thing, that's going on?
I don't know, I might look too far into it but after all...

Ben: "Jedi Skywalkers. Practicing a fine family tradition of rescuing people from the dark side."

 

Sorry, I just noticed my mistake, I meant to say, blood trace not blood bond. Though I think most of you probably figured that one out.

 

It would actually be pretty ironic if Anakin Skywalker ends up being the only Skywalker with a wife who wasn't a Sith or agent assassin. It could be that Ben and Vestara will become dueling love interests, but I hope not.

 

Absolutley they can be an item. I think it's the logical choice considering she has many of the same traits as Mara. Or am I going out on a limb on that one?

 

No you're not going out on a limb and it's been brought up many times in this thread and the general FOTJ threads to various degrees of love or hate.

 

I think I have reconsidered my decision. Tahiri was acting under the orders of Jacen, who was, at the time, the leader of the Galactic Republic. Even though his leadership was being challenged, it was a civil war. The underlings in a war do not face punishment, the leaders do, which is why Pellaeon was left off the hook for supporting the Empire during the Palpatine days as well.

 

Assassinating a Head of State of a government you are not at war with is rather different than what Pellaeon did.