The Official Haters' Community Reincarnation, Mk II

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by KansasNavy, Jul 28, 2002.

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  1. KILIK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2005
    star 4
    No idea.

    I hate Ben Skywalker, him and the Solo kids, well Anakin Solo was cool.

    But those twins hate them a lot.

    I thought about writing an AU or whatever it is were Jan and Leia have a forth kid. The kid is two r three year younger then Anakin

    This one has the Force like the other kids but like Han doesn't like the Force, or isn't a big fan of it.

    Yes I know the idea is weak and it sucks, so I'm ready to get flamed.
  2. JediHobbit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 5
    My main concern is in the general quality of the EU lately. It seems to me that the NJO and LOTF have hurt the quality of novels coming out, both in terms of story and execution. Sure, these grand story arcs are a great idea, but I feel that the structure is setting the tempo of the story telling and not the other way around. The NJO was not as bad, because so many different authors contributed to it, but all the different authors had to ensure that their work was completed by a certain time so as to fit into the publication schedule rather than taking the time to produce the best possible work. As an example, Dark Journey could have been a really interesting novel, but it was just confusing and felt rushed through. And don't even get me started on how significant parts of some of the novels were taken out to be e-books, just so they could squeeze another couple dollars out of us. Forget that. Coninuity errors arose from not having fellow authors' complete novels to work off of. Characterization of even the main players was inconsistent at best. And towards the end, books like the Force Heretic trilogy began to feel repetitive, but needed to remain a trilogy for the sake of the publication schedule.

    These problems have become even more apparent with the LOTF. with three authors trying to complete nine novels while taking turn with each novel (as opposed to each of them doing linear trilogies). Combines with the fact that Denning had just finished the Dark Nest Trilogy, I'm half suspicious that he doesn't have some sort of computer algorithm on his computer that just cranks out generic stories. I'm currently only on Inferno, but I'm really starting to have trouble reading it. I mean, the main POV of the chapter switches mid-scene in places, I think once even mid-paragraph. There's typos and grammatical errors that seem pretty obvious.

    On top of it all, I find myself almost skimming throught all these because it's almost completely plot development, with little attention being paid to character development. Maybe it's only me, but I feel like even Jacen's transformation into Darth Caedus, the central aspect of these novels needs a better treatment and more time spent inside Jacen's head. There must be some sort of conflict going on.

    I don't mind in the least having to wait for a new book as long as it's because the author is taking the time to produce the best possible story. as an example, George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series is a long time in development, but so far all the books have been knock outs. He took about 5 years, 5 years, to write A Feast for Crows and it turned out amazing. A Dance With Dragons was reportedly about half complete when AFfC was published, and that was 2 years ago. Please, start taking the time to make sure that it's the best possible stories being published. Please.
  3. adaml83 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2004
    star 4
    Jacen Solo, hate him so much that if and when someone hurts them, I'll like the character that inflicted the pain on Jacen more.

    Second, why do the recent EU books have to be about the Skywalkers/Solos? Come on there's a lot of good characters out there, use them!
  4. Tatooine_Ghost Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2006
    star 4
  5. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    I only skimmed what you wrote JediHobbit, but I still agree with you. My brother used to read the EU (back in the Bantam days), but he wouldn't touch the books now, because he believes that they have gone too far. And despite the fact that I am reading the LOTF series, I'm now inclined to agree with him.

    And the whole issue of Jaina's love life! God, that irritates me to no end! Especially how some people try to play up any scenes that she has with "their" guy! Can't she just be friends with them and leave it at that?!
  6. JediHobbit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 5
    With me it's not so much "going too far" as much as it is just not doing justice to the stories they want to tell. Take the time to make sure that the quality is there. Establish a sense of continuity (other than plot) between the novels by the different characters. The behavior of some characters such as Kyp and Corran has been inconsistant at best. IMO, Jaina's love triangle (rectangle if you include Kyp's brief potential) stems simply from individual authors playing favorites.

    I'm not saying this problem was completely absent from the Bantam era, but it was less apparent because each author had their own story to tell at different points in the characters' lives. The inconsistancies become much more apparent when one writer is picking up literally the day after another left off.
  7. The_Slilent_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2004
    star 3
    what do i hate? hmmm... **points to the first line in his sig** 'nuff said!
  8. kecen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 4
    I hate this whole EU business.
    I hate this whole Star Wars business XP

    Too much money, must read something else...

    But I keep coming back and then revising all my OC's to be non-SW characters because I like my squeaky scarheaded dolphin folk much, much better than the drooling males on the NJO.

    God I hate how I'm always contradicted by the NJO when I've planned out something grandiose with thirty whatstheirface Yuuzhan Vong OC's with matching wetsuits and hair accessories and then I find out they hate doing up their hair or something like that.

    God I hate all those humans that get in the way in the novels. Brrbrrlp for the win.

    And Jaina Solo should be maimed in a horrible X-wing accident, and get a pair of cyborg legs. And then she should marry a random guy she meets on the holonet. That would be a pleasure to read because I already like General Grievous (or should I say, despise with all my soul?) and his tragic backstory. As the feminists say, a woman shouldn't be defined by her romantic relationships with men...

    Also I hate this Sith business. I want to read about Chewbacca being deliced.

    I also hate how Tahiri seems to be the only Yuuzhan Vong warrior in existence.

    I hate how the Yuuzhan Vong had to be so human looking so Tahiri can be one of them. At least they should of cut off her nose.

    God I hate all species except for the Yuuzhan Vong 'cause everyone else hates them, and I hate Star Wars.

    I hate the comics but I still buy them because I sort of like them for the art.

    I hate the videogames because I can never finish them, and they have such awesome characters. Who aren't humans. Well some of them are fish-headed humans.

    I'm still reading Inferno and skimming Sacrifice for mentions of certain characters XP
  9. KissMeImARebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    QFT
    OMG that would be awesome. Especially the holonet part. I'm so sick of the Zekk/Jag angst. Just give her some random dude and let Zekk and Jag become BFF.


    Anyhow...

    I hate that there is a Pet Peeves thread in the Lit thread. Shouldn't that be what this thread is for? This thread is so neglected. I feel like I'm the only hater.

    I hate that Jacen is a Sith. Just make him a Dark Jedi.

    I hate that Nomi Sunrider can't be used because of some lawsuit. And I hate that Redemption is the only great TotJ comic, so that you have to read all the others (some of which are really quite wretched) before you get to the good stuff.

    I hate that Form VI is considered a bad lightsaber form.

    I hate that Revan is a canonical male.

    I hate Mara Jade.
  10. Luipaard Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Ditto. Especially after NJO. When I heard Sith!Jacen killed her, I laughed.
  11. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    And Jaina Solo should be maimed in a horrible X-wing accident, and get a pair of cyborg legs. And then she should marry a random guy she meets on the holonet. That would be a pleasure to read because I already like General Grievous (or should I say, despise with all my soul?) and his tragic backstory. As the feminists say, a woman shouldn't be defined by her romantic relationships with men...

    I know. It reminds me of Mona Lisa Smile in many ways.

    OMG that would be awesome. Especially the holonet part. I'm so sick of the Zekk/Jag angst. Just give her some random dude and let Zekk and Jag become BFF.

    It would be quite funny, come to think of it. Especially since many people are not expecting it.

    I hate that Revan is a canonical male.

    But HERE is where we differ in opinion. I think that a male Revan makes better sense, especially given his relationship and bond with Bastila. To be honest, I'm annoyed that they made the Exile a canonical female. Nothing against female protagonists, but I still maintain that a male Exile would have suited the story better.

    I hate Mara Jade.

    Oh come on! How can you hate Mara Jade?!
  12. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    I can't help it. I still hate the number of people who think that Jaina should go back with Jag. I really hope that does not happen.
  13. KissMeImARebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    But HERE is where we differ in opinion. I think that a male Revan makes better sense, especially given his relationship and bond with Bastila. To be honest, I'm annoyed that they made the Exile a canonical female. Nothing against female protagonists, but I still maintain that a male Exile would have suited the story better.

    I actually prefer a male Exile as well. I would have had it: female Revan, male Exile. But I might be biased because I'm female and played Revan as a female.

    But there's no denying that Bastila is a better love interest than Carth. Though I think Carth and Bastila should have hooked up - they are OTP with their bickering.

    Oh come on! How can you hate Mara Jade?!

    I hate the way Mara Jade is depicted from VoF onwards. IMO she was great in The Thrawn Trilogy and solid in later Bantam books. But things took a downward turn when she cried over her ship in VoF. And from then we were told she was everybody's best friend, even though all she ever did was act rude and entitled.

    There's one unforgivable sin in a Mary Sue in my eyes: and that's when no matter how often they are wrong-minded or wrong in action they're never called on it. Flaws are fine, but not when they are never addressed. At least Corran Horn takes a beating to his ego or person when he screws up or steps over the line.

    [face_peace]
  14. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    And Jaina Solo should be maimed in a horrible X-wing accident, and get a pair of cyborg legs. And then she should marry a random guy she meets on the holonet. That would be a pleasure to read because I already like General Grievous (or should I say, despise with all my soul?) and his tragic backstory. As the feminists say, a woman shouldn't be defined by her romantic relationships with men...

    OMG that would be awesome. Especially the holonet part. I'm so sick of the Zekk/Jag angst. Just give her some random dude and let Zekk and Jag become BFF.


    Well, considering what happens in Revelation, many people seem to have come to the conclusion that she and Jag are going to get back together. As a hardcore J/Z shipper, I am severely depressed by this. I'm hoping something unexpected happens in Invincible, like maybe Jag dying or something. In which case, Zekk can still get Jaina, and they could probably name their first son after Jag, while Cem Fel starts that stupid dynasty. Not sure if I'm saying that out of spite, or if I just want to see things shaken up and less predictable. Maybe a bit of both.

    But maybe Zekk needs to say "to hell with Jaina" and strike out on his own. He could be like Mace Windu or Qui-Gon Jinn. I've spent so much time wanting them to get together that I've overlooked the possibility that maybe he's better off without her.

    Or maybe I'm just annoyed because the first couple of LOTF books gave me hope for a J/Z romance, and then they screwed me over as the series went on.

    But you know something? My brother used to read the EU books, but he stopped reading long before NJO came out. When I asked him why, he told me that they took the Star Wars universe too far, and thus ruined everything. After all this time, I finally agree with him.

    I for one absolutely loved the YJK series, and I had high hopes for the characters after reading those stories. I see now that those hopes were grossly misplaced.
  15. The_Slilent_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2004
    star 3
    I for one absolutely loved the YJK series, and I had high hopes for the characters after reading those stories. I see now that those hopes were grossly misplaced.

    I agree. YJK and JJK were my favorite EU books, they are what actually got me interested in the SW:EU. Its a shame to see it butchered [face_not_talking]
  16. Glitbiter Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2008
    star 1
    I may be in the minority here, but I hate Aaron Allston's SW novels so much :mad:

    I just find Allston's writing juvenile, and his humour isn't funny to me - it's mostly slapstick and childish practical jokes. I like intelligent, subtle humour. Also what was the point of Solo Command? At the end of Iron Fist there's a climatic space battle and Zsinj escapes, then Solo Command is about them gearing up for another assualt on Zsinj, at the end there's another climatic space battle (that reads exactly like the last one *yawn*) and Zsinj escapes again! What a pointless, boring book! And so much for Solo Command, Han has something like five lines! Hate it!!

    I hate Tim Zahn's writing too, Heir to the Empire was the most boring book I've ever read (apart from Solo Command, of course) The characters are wooden, the empire coming back sucks compared to NJO (I read those first) and Thrawn isn't as awesome as he's made out to be. How is he a genius? Is it b/c he can actually keep up with the New Republic? That's not genius, that's competent at the most. So I hate Zahn too, his writing sucks, IMO.

    I'm not all hate though, I like Stover, Denning, and Karen Traviss when she leaves out the Mandos.

    Oh yeah, and I hate Zsinj. What a crappy, crappy villian (not man enough to be called a villian, IMO); he's an idiot and a coward.

    While I'm on a roll here, does anyone else despise Juun and Tarfang? They pissed me off so much in Inferno... Leia, a Jedi Knight, can't hold her own against an Ewok!! :eek: Geez!

    It feels good to get that off my chest :) I would go into the prequels but I can't express my hate fully without colourful language ;)
  17. JoJo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2001
    I'm a Mara Jade fan.

    BUT.

    She's been so horribly inconsistently written that I completely understand why so many SW fans hate her. Or just dislike her.

    She's always struck me as more of a vague outline of a character--a complex, nigh-impenetrable outline, one full of possibilities, one all to easy to project one's own ideas and theories upon.

    She's a difficult character. In fact, construction-wise (if we count up all her appearances), she's a pretty *bad* character, imo.

    But I've still found her the most interesting, most inspiring character in the EU. Strange.
  18. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    I hate Jacen so much that I want him to suffer. I usually don't waste my emotions on fiction, but I hate Jacen so much that I want nothing more than to see Luke mop the floor with him.
  19. Atilla_the_Hutt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2005

    I have to agree. I want nothing more than for Jacen to get his a** handed to him in the most humiliating way possible. LOTF has completely turned me off the EU.
  20. Silver_mane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    I really hated it when Revan and the Exile were forced to have set endings/genders. Go marketing! :oops:

    In my versions its Fem/Lightside Revan and M/Lightside Exile. Mainly because the male's possible romance situations didnt bother me as much. Female Exile's love interests creeped me out. Let's see an ex-murderer or a really dull Republic spy with a face that looked like a rubber doorstop. Obsidian sucked at the romance side quests. To me that will be the real KOTOR canon. Maybe thats why I like the KOTOR comics, they keep Revan covered the whole time, so its alot easier for me to picture my Revan under those robes.

    The love triangle in LOTF makes me wince abit. Lord just pick ONE of them already! Maybe the last book will solve that particular black hole.
  21. DarkSavior Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2006
    star 4
    Marketing is #1. They don't know anything about the consumer as they ceased to be that when they took on a job. Trust me, I know enough marketing agents...they are all slimy.
  22. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    In my versions its Fem/Lightside Revan and M/Lightside Exile.

    Personally, I do both as light sided males. I love the Revan/Bastila romance, and I think that a male Exile would go good with the Handmaiden.

    The love triangle in LOTF makes me wince abit. Lord just pick ONE of them already! Maybe the last book will solve that particular black hole.

    I get really stressed out by the fact that the hints appear to be pointing towards her picking Jag. I have wanted her and Zekk to get together, and I don't think I will EVER like J/J. EVER! In fact, I absolutely despise it!

    But you know what? I think that Jaina picking Jag will simply prove that he is a character that is incapable of having his own story. He must always be tied to Jaina. And the fact that the Fel dynasty may be related to Jaina simply confirms that she is now nothing more than a shadow of her former self.

    By the way, I don't think that I have spoiled too much so please don't ban me again.

    I'm just tired and upset that the characters whom I used to love so dearly no longer exist.

    LOTF has completely turned me off the EU.

    Everything from the beginning of NJO to the end of LOTF has killed my love of the EU. The destruction of the YJK/JJK characters being top of the list.
  23. Kev-Mas_Colcha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 2002
    star 5
    I hope I'm not committing a heinous necro by posting here, but I have a rant to make.

    The Force Unleashed - must not be allowed a release. Horrible unrealistic qualities for a teenage force user in an era where force users are extremely rare make for a horrible storyline, and another RPG by Lucasarts that's more FPS than RPG. [face_plain]

    [image=http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/blananar/kevmascolcha/motivator8907096.jpg]
  24. JaDan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2008
    star 1
    Ok so this is palce to vent your frustration with the novels?
    Cool!

    I HATE Jacen / Tenel Ka!!, I dont hate Tenel Ka, but I hate Jacen / Tenel Ka.

    They don't match, even if they were close friends for how every many years. They completely killed there relationship in NJO, and made it worse in DN. Now it sucks!

    I wish there would be more family related realtionships, Jacen /Danni would have been perfect for that!
  25. JaDan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2008
    star 1
    Ok where do i start... btw if cappin aint allowed here tell me and i'll edit.

    I HATE DARK NEST!

    I HATE JACEN/TENEL KA!

    I HATE THAT JACEN/DANNI ISNT A REALITY! :mad:

    I HATE HOW CHEWIE WAS KILLED!

    I HATE EVERY SINGLE HAPAN SPAWNED FROM TENEL KA TO ALLAN ETC.!

    I HATE DARTH CEADUS! (THE EVIL JACEN CLONE)

    I HATE THAT ALLANA IS TENEL KA'S KID ISNTEAD OF JAINA'S LIKE IT WAS ORIGANILY INTENDED!

    I HATE ALEMA RAR!

    I HATE ANAKIN SOLO'S DEATH, THEREFORE I HATE SbS!

    I HATE TAHIRI'S FALL!

    I HATE... well dislike.... NVM I HATE TENEL KA!

    I HATE EVERY SW NOVEL AFTER TEMPEST, NO NO AFTER UNIFYING FORCE AND BEFORE INVINCIBLE!

    AND LAST AND MOST IMPORTANTLY.....

    I HATE TROY DENNING!
    I HATE TROY DENNING!
    I HATE TROY DENNING!

    And I'm sure I hate alot of other things Tenel Ka related but I cant think of any atm!

    I love Jacen/Danni!!!!!




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