The Official "I'm worried about Yoda" Thread

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Gry Sarth, Nov 5, 2001.

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  1. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I agree that if Yoda has to kick some butt, a CG Yoda is essential. What I don't get is why they used the cgi Yoda in reaction shots such as this one on the teaser. The puppet was perfectly capable of doing it.

    It's like TPM, when they needed Yoda to cross the room, they used CGI, and it looked wonderful, because it was just a robed figure at a distance, and it blended seamlessly with the following shots of puppet Yoda, so why not do this in Ep2?! If he's just talking and looking around: puppet, if he's "in action": CGI.

    ...and I won't even mention my aprehension at seeing good ol' Yoda waving a saber and jumping around like he's Jackie Chan...
  2. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    Who said he has to fight jumping around and using a lightsaber like he was Darth Maul ?

    C'mon, use your imagination a bit.
  3. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    I can imagine a bunch of ways that Yoda could kick butt without jumping around and doing fancy saber moves. Ways to fight that would be much more in-character. But these ways that I imagine wouldn't require him to be CG.

    So, since he's CG, that pretty much says he's gonna become and action hero...
  4. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    I think this new Yoda is just going to start making things float around, plus who knows what other tricks.

    Anyways, even this would require a CG Yoda to properly place him in the middle of an action scene.

    Anyways, I think this CG Yoda is way better than the old and new puppets since it seems he can express emotion way much better, at least seen from this one quick shot. It looks great !
  5. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Another Saga & CT Manager

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    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    I'm watching the 640 version... watch his eyes in particular, and his mouth - he has the nuances that puppet Yoda had. I bet what they did was have Oz puppeteer him and build the CG model animation off that.
  6. Boba_Phat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2000
    star 4
  7. Boba_Phat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2000
    star 4
    I can't believe how good he looks. That was one of the things I was really worried about, but now I feel OK about it. When I saw that part of the trailer I was overwhelmed. It was way better than what I was expecting. I'd say that he looks like the best CGI character ILM has done thus far.
  8. Darth-Mouth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 1999
    star 4
    "Fighting Yoda" is another matter, but that doesn't mean it's not fun to discuss.

    Keep in mind that, although Yoda will probably have to be CGI to pull off a fight scene, his "fighting style" might not necessarily involved saber wielding.

    The most important thing about Yoda in Episode II is for him not to look ridiculous if and when he fights someone.
  9. Sebulba49 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 1999
    star 1
    I just like to go on record saying that, despite my previous comments, the new CGI Yoda is pretty cool. Maybe a little too wiggly for my taste, but I imagine that if I didn't know that the shot could not have been accomplished with a puppet, I would not see the "obviousness" of the CGI. I am, however, a little worried about how this Yoda with match up with the other two. Hopefully after EPIII, Mr. Lucas will go back, update all of the effects, and release that new Speicial Edition ALONG WITH ALL OF THE ORIGINAL VERSIONS on DVD. Here's hopin'! :D
  10. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Well, to further state my point, I've been living under a rock for the past couple of years, avoiding anything about Ep2. So I had NO IDEA Yoda would be CG, I hadn't heard even a rumor of it.

    So when I watched the trailer for the 1st time and Yoda came up, my reaction was "Ugh, they managed to screw him up even more than in Ep1... that doesn't look like the Yoda I know..."

    Then I watched it a second time and it came to me... "What the ^&*, HE'S CG!!"


    So, what I mean is, the quality of the effects is very good here, but the problem is messing up a very known and established character.
  11. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > So, what I mean is, the quality of the effects is very good here, but the problem is messing up a very known and established character.

    I think the general consensus is that it looks better. Hey, I was pretty fond of the puppet myself, I was a kid when I first saw him, but he looks better now.

    If his main animator can match or surpass the performance given by Oz, then I say more power to them.

    After all, it was Frank Oz the one who told Lucas "You don't need me anymore".
  12. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    This is how Yoda was always meant to look.

    Well at least for me. :)
  13. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "If his main animator can match or surpass the performance given by Oz, then I say more power to them."


    I reckon that Lucas can probably just go back and re-do specific OT scenes using CGI copies of Harrison Ford or Mark Hamill then, eh? ;)

    At a certain point, endlessly going back and "updating" the OT every time a new level of CGI sophistication is reached begins to smack of techno-geek wankery for its own sake, IMHO.

    If you christen a ship, then begin replacing deck planks, masts, fittings, etc., at what point does it cease to be the same ship? Y'know?

    I once saw a performance by "The Byrds". It was their original drummer, plus a band full of no-name replacements, including one who was trying his best to look like David Crosby. NOT exactly what I would call a band that should still be playing as "The Byrds".

    Same thing with the OT. The SE releases were fun and all, but at what point does Lucas quit messing with them? Personally, I think they worked just fine the way they originally were. I can see where Lucas might have wanted to fix a few things, but IMHO he has ALREADY gone overboard with some of his OT fiddling. Do we now begin systematically replacing every effect with CGI simply because it's possible to do so?

    Go back and look at ESB again... Frank Oz did a MASTERFUL job puppeteering Yoda. The facial expressions, the attitude, it's all Oz. Why go back and remove his performance and replace it with a CGI cartoon simply because the technology now exists to do so?

    IMHO, Lucas would be far better off being a bit more judicious with his CGI and trying to make the PT match up with the OT rather than going apesh** with the PT effects and then trying to re-sculpt the OT to match it.
  14. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > IMHO, Lucas would be far better off being a bit more judicious with his CGI

    Lucas *is* far better off doing whatever he wants to do. It is said that we'll know why Yoda is called a "master" in this film, I am eagerly awaiting that. I bet that includes making Yoda more mobile, than a puppet that just doesn't cut it anymore.

    > and trying to make the PT match up with the OT

    I don't think he has to match anything. Leave Yoda as it is in the first films, for that matter, leave the Emperor screwed up as he is in Empire, or change it, I don't care.

    What I do care, is that they show no restraint in using all the modern techniques they can to improve the characters.

    And again, even the puppeteer in this case told Lucas he's not needed anymore, but oh well, some nostalgic fans won't have any of that.

    This is pretty absurd.
  15. Mist1024 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2001
    star 2
    We see Yoda for about 5 seconds and we are judging Yoda for only those 5 seconds.

    Folks, I am not sure about you, but I do not judge the quality of Yoda from 5 seconds of footage and perhaps 5 seconds of unfinished footage I might add.

    I think we should hold off on judgements on Yoda until we actually see the movie, just so we have more than 5 seconds and a perhaps finished product to judge it by.
  16. Master_Beerstalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 1
    I think he looks great, however, doesn't he look angry as heck? Never thought we would see an angry yoda.

    I love the original trilogy as they originally are, but I would also like to see an Ultimate Edition. I can believe that Lucas will take until 2007 and release all six movies as an ultimate edition. Once again going through all six movies and retooling all the the special effects shots. For example, making yoda and Jabba look the same through all six movies, except aging them.

    Of course I would hope he would also include the original releases as well.

    When kids today watch the original trilogy they can't believe how crappy some of the special effects are, just like when I watch old 50's Sci Fi, and think it's horrible.

    I just hope some day we have a final version that flows together seamlessly from EP I - VI.
  17. Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 1999
    star 5
    Just some visual aid to this thread:

    Yoda's Evolution

    Again, what I'm really worried about here is character, not so much looks.

    If the animator manages to copy precisely Frank Oz's performance, than it will be fine. But I think that's really hard...
  18. soneil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Just my 2c worth. I thought it was the most realistic and convincing portrayal of Yoda I've seen. Sure I like Frank Oz's work but it always looked just that little bit like a puppet. I like what I saw in the trailer. I don't expect others to agree and don't mind if they don't but I thought he looked good.
  19. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    Gry Sarth, great idea.

    II and V look about right.
  20. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    Thanks for the pictures, just goes to show how crappy the OT Yoda's look with today's effects, one of them is even cross eyed. LOL.

    Definetly EP2 Yoda looks much better, and able to show true facial expressions.

    > If the animator manages to copy precisely Frank Oz's performance, than it will be fine. But I think that's really hard...

    I don't think so, basically his performance is taht of a a puppet, I always found it funny how exagerated Yoda's walk was, looks like Kermit the frog.

    So while I hope they draw inspiration from Oz's movements, I do hope they don't hold back into improving them even further.
  21. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    If Lucas DOES go back and change more (or all) of the effects in the OT for the DVD release (aside from ANH's Jabba... IMHO, fix that one or lose it altogether!) then I, for one, will not be buying the DVD. By that time I'll be able to transfer my laserdiscs to DVD and have done with it.
  22. C-3P0 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2001
    star 4
    I'm one of those people who never liked the puppet Yoda. I really disliked that his mouth and lip movement never came close to synching with his dialogue. Plus, to me, he just sounded like Grover from Sesame Street.

    I've been able to distance myself from the voice, but I never got past knowing that I'm watching a muppet with glass eyes and a hand jammed up its' butt.

    This CG version is a vast improvement in my eyes.

    Go george! :D
  23. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    > If Lucas DOES go back and change more (or all) of the effects in the OT for the DVD release (aside from ANH's Jabba... IMHO, fix that one or lose it altogether!) then I, for one, will not be buying the DVD

    Good for you.
    On the other hand, I'd pay extra money if they digitally enhance Luke's performance and specially his whiny voice (ANH) in a future DVD. I'd pay extra extra money for that ! :-D
  24. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "...just goes to show how crappy the OT Yoda's look with today's effects, one of them is even cross eyed. LOL."


    You mean Yoda's wandering eye in ROTJ? It's always worked for me... the guy was sick and dying.
  25. Sphinx1975 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    CGI? Puppet? Phooey. All that matters is that he's there and my intention is if he pulls out a weapon to beat up some bad guys I want to shout, "Put the beat down on 'em, Yoda" to get the crowd into it.. yeah yeah...
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