***The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread***

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth_Odious, Jun 7, 2002.

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  1. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    Something tells me that Undomiel will be back.
  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Maverick, edit out the S word.

    What he's saying is this:

    "Palpatine, well known as the Emperor..." This tells those who know that who he is. It also tells those who don't know, the Emperor's name.
  3. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Darth Solo,
    Und is right. I'm playing devil's advocate here, and exactly why would being wrong on this prevent me from posting on this forum? Its just not that important to me, and appears to be far more important to you than it should be. :p

    In addition, I'm saying its wrong IF the context is in relation to the average viewer of the star wars movie, which I don't think it is. The name palpatine is not in the OT anywhere, so why would it be well known to the average movie goer?

    Maverick,
    Don't despair. I'm fully expecting that once the GL interview quotes get posted, it will be patently clear that they are the same.
    BTW, people are gonna think you're even stranger than I if you keep making them comment on the blurb on the back of a dvd. :D
  4. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    I dont see the quotees comin for a bit...ive been askin for them 4eva
  5. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    This topic is like the friggin energizer bunny.
  6. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    That was sarcasm Odious. It's not really that important to me,and I do expect you to show your face when the truth comes out.(even though the truth is already in front of our eyes)
  7. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    Hey im fully prepared to admitt i was wrong when the truth is out....if im wrong..just none of this rubbin it our face crap
  8. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Darth Sinister,
    I understand. Its written from a sort of historical viewpoint of the star wars universe, as opposed to from the view that everyone in the real world knows palpy becomes sid.

    Its just that, by using that viewpoint, it also makes the quote work from the standpoint of the pro-cloners(i.e. well known to the populace of the republic does not mean truth).

    However, the quotes we are waiting on sound like a little more concrete evidence that palpy=sid. All we need is those quotes.

    Again, I believe that palpy=sid. Just by a quirk of fate, the evidence we have thus far is so open to interpretation that it could be either. I am confident that the aforementioned quotes will effectively end it, but please don't get mad at me if the evidence we have gathered thus far is inconclusive. It's just debate, we're all just killing time.

    Anyway, back to the soaps.
  9. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    Aw come on Plo...not even a little rubbing it in?
  10. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    SINISTER:

    Sorry about that, I didn't get back in time to edit it. I didn't even realize I typed it until now...hopefully they let that one slide. Sorry guys.
  11. desann Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    whoa! the debate is still alive and I have yet to see proof that can't be used by both sides to their advantage. It's as if all arguments are being used by both sides. Amazing :p
  12. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    Come on if ya get those quotes me and odious will convert to the they are the same side and we can drop this debate so go get that link if ya wanna end this thread
  13. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Actually, as soon as we get those quotes, I'm switching to the twin theory. After all, the twins name would be...Palpatine!

    I am so evil.
  14. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    I want to see those quotes as much as anyone. The best I've seen so far is the quotes on the box.
  15. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    At least they would destroy the clone theory, until new proof arrives cause GL has changed his mind b4.....GET THOSE QUOTES
  16. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Yeah, that way, if the proof arrives, we can have this thread locked down, and it would be a complete debate, anyone else who comes on with the theory that they are clones could just be referred to this thread and save the forum a second debate.

    So lets just keep civil with each other, I have a feeling that this debate is close to being done.

    BTW, I'm just joking about the twin thing. There's no proving that one, everything with palpy's name on it would suddenly be even more nebulous than it is in the clone theory, if that's possible.
  17. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    GUYS quotes from an interview by Leonard Maltin of Entertainment Tonight

    MALTIN: "Can you tell us a little about Tarkin and is he in Episode 1"

    LUCAS: "Well, Tarkin was basically a small time politician who was a governor of a small Outland Region sector until he became one of the first supporters of Palpatine. As a result of his ties with Palpatine, Tarkin steadily moved up the "political ladder" during Palpatine's climb up the political ranks, which culminates in Palpatine becoming Emperor."


    MALTIN: "Who exactly is Palpatine?"

    Lucas: "To get an idea of the kind of man Palpatine is in the prequel trilogy you need to read about the Roman Emperor, Julius Ceasar, and his spectatcular rise to power in Rome."

    THESE ARE A FEW QUOTES FROM AN INTERVIEW. I will work on more, but obviously Palpatine is not some chump.

  18. Darth-Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 1
    This isn't a quote,and may have been mentioned already, but according to IMDB.COM(which is the biggest movie data base on the web) if you look at the cast of ROTJ,it refers to Ian as Emperor Palpatine. I know that this doesn't prove anything,but I thought you might want to know what the hugely respected website listed in the credits.
  19. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Mav,
    Good work. The reason that I was being so picky on the box was that the quote was nebulous enough that it didn't bolster either side, even if it appeared to. Ending the debate solely off of that would have just meant that someone else would have picked up on it using the same argument I put forward, and we'd have years of this thread. I know we disagree on the open ended nature of that quote, but it just happens to have a loophole in it that prevents it from refuting the clone theory.

    However, that last quote is a good start. Got anymore?
  20. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    I AGREE ODIOUS:

    I will keep working on the quotes. It may take a while as those did, but I will keep at it.
  21. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    I know you were probably getting annoyed with me on the box quote issue. I apologize if I came off as hard headed.
  22. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    I DON'T THINK THIS HAS EVER BEEN POSTED AND ITS NOT A QUOTE, BUT IT IS FROM THE DATABANK AT:
    http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html

    THE END IS VERY INTERESTING. IT TALKS ABOUT HIM AND VADAR AND LUKE.

    Palpatine was the supreme ruler of the most powerful tyrannical regime the galaxy had ever witnessed, yet his roots are extremely humble, traced back to the peaceful world of Naboo.

    Before his rise to power, Palpatine was an unassuming yet ambitious Senator in the Galactic Republic. Palpatine saw the Republic crumbling about him, torn apart by partisan bickering and corruption. All too common were those unscrupulous Senators taking advantage of the system, growing fat and wealthy on a bureaucracy too slow to catch them.

    Palpatine's moment of opportunity came as a result of a trade embargo. The Trade Federation, in protest of government measures that would tax their outlying trade routes, blockaded and invaded Naboo. Naboo's planetary leader, Queen Amidala, rushed to Coruscant for Palpatine's aid. Together, the two pleaded to the Senate for intervention, only to see their request stalemated by Trade Federation filibustering. Frustrated by the government's inability to do anything, Queen Amidala acted upon Palpatine's suggestion, and called for a Vote of No Confidence in the Republic's leadership.

    Chancellor Valorum was voted out of office, and Palpatine was soon nominated to succeed him. The crisis on Naboo created a strong sympathy vote, and Palpatine became Chancellor. He promised to reunite the disaffected, and bring order and justice to the government.

    Despite his promises, the Republic continued to be mired in strife and chaos. A decade after his nomination, Palpatine's Chancellery was faced with the challenge of a popular Separatist movement led by the charismatic leader, Count Dooku. Many in the galaxy feared that the conflict would escalate to full-scale warfare, but Palpatine was adamant that the crisis could be resolved by negotiation.

    The Separatists didn't agree. Upon the discovery of a secret army of droids, it became apparent that the Separatists were on the verge of declaring war against the Republic. To counter this, the Republic needed a military, and Palpatine required the authority to activate the Republic's newly forged army of clones. To that end, Senators loyal to Palpatine motioned that the Chancellor be given emergency powers to deal with the Separatist threat.

    With spoken regrets, Palpatine accepted the new mantle of power. He promised to return his absolute authority to the Senate after emergency subsided. What no one realized was that the galaxy would undergo further upheaval, and that a state of crisis would ensure Palpatine's authority for decades.

    Palpatine instituted a military build-up unprecedented in galactic history. He created the New Order, a Galactic Empire that ruled by tyranny. The Jedi Knights, his biggest threat, were extinguished by his greatest dark side pupil: Anakin Skywalker, who had become Darth Vader.

    During the Galactic Civil War, Palpatine ruled with an iron fist. He disbanded the Imperial Senate, and passed control down to the regional governors and the military. During the Hoth campaign, Palpatine expressed to Vader his concerns over Luke Skywalker, a young Rebel powerful in the Force. Vader suggested that the two convert the youth to the dark side of the Force, an idea the Emperor seconded.

    The Emperor was a scheming ruler, planning events far in the future, using the Force to foresee the results. Palpatine allowed Rebel spies to learn of the location of the second Death Star, and foresaw their strike team and fleet assault. Palpatine crafted an elaborate trap that was to be the end of the Rebellion. He also concentrated on converting Luke Skywalker to the dark side of the Force, even at the expense of sacrificing Vader. In the Death Star, high above the Battle of Endor, Luke refused the Emperor's newfound dark side power, and so Palpatine used his deadly Force lightning to attack the young Jedi. Luke a
  23. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    ODIOUS:

    You are alright man, I wasn't getting mad at you...you are one of the only level headed people on this debate. I was just frustrated with the whole notion. I mean you honestly understand what it says, but you simply point out the possible loop hole. Its all good, we see eye to eye.
  24. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Mav,

    Yeah, that has been posted. The problem is that in never expressly says that Sidious=Palpatine.

    Edit:
    BTW, I used this as proof at one point in this thread and I still believe it is meant to be taken at face value. The fact that it does not mention Sidious dos however give a pro-cloner some leverage in the argument. What I mean is, You could say Palpatine deceives Sidious and becomes the Sith Lord, however improbable that would be.



    Palpatine IS Darth Sidious
  25. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    OBHAVE:

    That is true, but it does say that Palpatine becomes the Emperor. So I figured one could put two and two together. Also, if you read all the way through on the Sidious data bank it says that we don't know of his true identity. So, maybe the question ought to be who is Sidious? Not, who is Palpatine?
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