***The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread***

OH BEHAVE!

 

i dont and you dont know for sure if he ever reveals his face to dooku and maul. i dont know, but if u were either one of them wouldnt u try and sneak a peak?

 

and risk the purple lightning? Nope.

 

In TPM, i realized something. As soon as the whole "Im going back" think with Padme', the next scene is Sidious making sure that the Planet is secure, then he tells Nute that he's sending Darth Maul. Becuase he knows about the Jedi returning.

 

well, we can talk about this until we are blue in the face, but i am not a 100% sold on the fact that palps= sidious

 

What purpose to the story does it serve to have Sidious and Palpatine as two independent people? I mean GL so far has set the whole thing up like they are seperate anyway, right? It would be revealing the revealed.

 

Verry,

Clone or not, it's obvious that Sidious/Palpatine (whatever) can forsee better than any force user (as far as we know). Not until the very end is his vision clouded. Sidiousd could have just sensed it/forseen it.

 

Yes, a point you have. Why DOESN'T it explain that Maul and Dooku know Sidious' real identity if it isn't an issue to begin with, unless of course, it's for the same tired old reason we've heard a thousand times before --> BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE KNOWS PALPATINE IS SIDIOUS YET. Okay, like who doesn't know this already? It's on the box, it's on the figurines, GL has been quoted saying it, Rick McCallum has been quoted saying it, Ian, himself, has been quoted saying it. This is the real contention, if it's a secret, why the heck is everyone splattering it all over the figures, books, magazine articles and interviews? What gives here?

 

My point was this. We've only seen two movies in the PT and all you Palpy is not Sidious people think you have it all figured out. What I'm trying to say is that if this was 1980, you people would all be saying that Anakin and Vader are two different people.

I absolutely agree with you. before ESB, I would have thought people were crazy if they said vader and luke's dad were one on in the same. but AFTER ESB, where vader tells us the truth, then I would accept that as the truth.

the point I am trying to get across is that we have NOT in any way seen a connection between sidious and the emporer. we haven't seen sidious use the force. only wear a black robe.

and I believe that palpatine IS the sith lord and can hide his identity from the Jedi. I don't think they can sense it because they haven't looked to him as a suspect. I believe their senses are just like sight and touch. you can't SEE anything unless you open your eyes, and you can't feel something unless you touch it.

 

>>IN TPM, Yoda said 'hard to see the dark side is'; not 'impossible'. Even young Luke could sense the Dark side on dagobah in ESB; even though no sith was there to manipulate it. Luke also sensed it before he saw Darth Vader in Bespin; he ignited his Sabre before seing Vader. Therefore, the Dark side's presence is easily detected in person, so to speak.

In TPM, the entire Jedi Council stands next to Palpatine at Qui-Gonn's funeral. If he was the Sith master, they'd know it!<<

I would argue that Palpatine is good hiding his true feelings. He's never angry, but remains calm or jovial as at the end of TPM.

But saying that Obi-wan did sense something "elusive" when they first visited the Trade Federation ship in TPM. And that was prior to Sidious' contact with the Neomodians.

 

We already know the outcome. It's the characters in the story who don't. Knowing about Sidious and Palpatine and their future does not change the story. Just as knowing that Anakin is Vader doesn't change his story. They can put it on the toys and anything else, it is still unknown to the characters in the prequels.

Or something similarily confusing

 

ok.

If Senator "the clone" Palpatine was growth/development accelerated, then people would notice (especially as the same should cause him to age faster)[better not mention science, after all it is in a galaxy far away].
If he wasn't, he would have to be several years younger than Sidious, as Sidious presumably wasn't born in full knowledge of his plan and with the power/influence to implement it. This would mean that "Palpatine" in RotJ is another 20 or so years older than otherwise.......

just thinking
Cartzca

 

Odious,

You missed a few debates that've already been similarly beaten to death such as those tnt is espousing now. Do you still have time to edit the second post and add?

 

Cart,

Yeppers, the point has already been raised that the two are different in appearance already! READ Posts 1 and 2 of page 1, please.

[Edit: Apparently, Odious did not address this in either of his initial posts. Essentially, they DO look different in AotC. Palpatine is getting the creeping cruds but Sidious looks the same as in TPM]

 

Could it be that the Jedi are trying to hard to forsee the future and not concentrating on the present? That would tie in with Yoda's conversation with Ben in ESB. Things do intentionaly parallel between these two movies. Maybe, the Jedi are preoccupied with finding the mystery of the Sith and meditating on the Chosen One's path that they are missing what is in the present?

 

Cart,
Actually, I did put forward an idea that the clone plot was one foreseent by the sith before palpatine, and that they made the clone specifically to be his age, without age acceleration.

The one problem with sidious being the clone is that he exposes himself to the sith apprentices, and we all know how trustful they are. If they decided to become the sith master, they could easily kill the clone, and then there would just be Palpatine.


Und,
You made me do it. You comment on GL saying it, but I have included GL's statements in the second post. The statement is a very maleable sort of statement. DID YOU NOT READ THE SECOND POST?

Everyone boo Und. Bad Und.



Also, for those who say that elements in a story have to affect the characters, this is merely a guideline to storytelling. The only thing the elements of a story MUST do is affect the viewer.

 

Odious,

Don't give me no lip son. (I recanted and made an edit to Cart's post. So )

 

See, people think it's ludicrous to think that Palpatine would be able to hide in plain sight. Yet, the Jedi don't think Dooku is of the dark side until the final confrontation.

Something else that adds to the Sidious is Palpatine, the Sith feel Luke growing stronger in the Force. Yet for a thousand years, no Jedi knew of the Sith's ability to grow stronger? That is ludicrous. How can that be? Simple. The balance is weakening. The Jedi are arrogent enough to believe that the Sith cannot come back. Yoda tells us as much. This is what destroys them and why Sidious can walk amongest them as Palpatine. That is the twist for the audience. That a Sith Lord tricked them and he did it in front of them.

 

OKay, so, In RotJ, palpatine can shoot lightning. So PALPATINE HAS TO BE A SITH. but true, that doens't mean that both him and Sidious are the same person. But what about what Dooku told Obi Won?


WHat about it huh?

The whole clone thing, is too screwy, and everyone would ultimately be displeased, and feel like they would have been cheated in the mystery.

Kinda like a mystery story, not giving all the clues to the reader, and pulling the rug out from underneath them, and the detective pulling the answere from out of his ass.

 

This has been discussed a million times over the past three years.

The concept that Palpy isn't Sid is lame.

It would be absolutely stupid if they weren't the same person and make no sense to the overall story.

It would lessen the dramatic effect of such an evil villian as Palpatine.

 

the point I am trying to get across is that we have NOT in any way seen a connection between sidious and the emporer. we haven't seen sidious use the force. only wear a black robe.

Let's see, Sidious' name is DARTH Sidious and he calls Darth Maul his apprentice...I'd say it's safe to make the connection that Sidious is a Sith Lord.

 

Hey, maybe I should try to argue the other side for awhile.

In regards to the scene where Yoda glances at Palpatine after he finished Padme's sentence for her. Does this show that Palpatine is strong with the Force, but has no knowledge that he is using it? Would the venerable Master Yoda see the blatant use of the Force right in fromt of him were it intentional on the part of Palpatine? Better yet, if Palpatine is Sidious, would he be daft enough to use the Force right in front of Yoda?

How bold would that move be?!

 

>>This is what destroys them and why Sidious can walk amongest them as Palpatine.<<

And that's an important line, even if you accept that Sidious and Palpatine are not the same.

 

Boo on tnt too.

Read post 2, tnt. The only times that a force user senses another force user in the movies involve deep feelings between the two. The cave in ESB is not a force user for the sake of this argument.

Boo. Boo.

 

Darth Mischievious,

This has been discussed a million times over the past three years.

This response is disqualified on the grounds of REDUNDANCY!

The concept that Palpy isn't Sid is lame.

This response is disqualified on the grounds of REDUNDANCY!

It would be absolutely stupid if they weren't the same person and make no sense to the overall story.

This response is disqualified on the grounds of REDUNDANCY AND MEDIOCRITY!

It would lessen the dramatic effect of such an evil villian as Palpatine.

Explain this. Do so without repeating anything that has already been covered in Posts 1 and 2 of page 1.

Thanks from the people of The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread