***The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread***

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth_Odious, Jun 7, 2002.

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  1. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Mav,

    read my post above, I edited it.
  2. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    Its official.....Death too the threadhuse with me?
  3. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    OBIHAVE:

    Yeah, but that's a tough argument, yet I still like my actual quotes before that post, from the man himself, George Lucas. Especially the second one. And to further that, if Palpatine fools Sidious then how is he a clone? That's what I would ask the pro-cloners?
  4. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Exactly Mav,

    It just so happens that you already have the answer.

    (Sidious-yellow eyes)+(Palpatine+50 years)=

    a bunch of silly debate!

    Palps=Sids
  5. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Maverick,
    I'm not sure what you mean about palpy fooling sidious.

    As for the database, it has been posted.

    I'm gonna have to go back and see who mentioned the French interviews and use mind tricks to get them to post the appropriate quotes. That would close the lid on this one, and we could get back to posting about the motivations of characters in the movie for 1/14th of a second.
  6. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    ODIOUS:

    The Palpy fooling Sidious thing was me and OBIHAVE talking, sorry bout dat
  7. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Darth Odious,

    At last you will reveal the quotes to the posters. At last we will have our proof.

    Ok, that was lame. Sorry. ;)
  8. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    I'm the (french) guy who mentioned the french interviews.

    i'll translate them tomorrow and post them here, as soon as I put my hands on the mags. However, what I said was exact quoting already ! Trust me.

    These quotes are good indications that Sidious is Palps, however, as I said before, Lucas never uses the names Palps and Sidious in a same sentence.
    So technically these quotes are not proofs for people who *want* to believe in the clone theory.


    I noticed something yesterday in the AOTC art book. There is a page where you can see drawings of Palpatine and his office. It is said that Palpatine is consumed by the dark side, and that's why he looks so much older in AOTC.
    They say that the Chancellor in AOTC is the "missing link" between the senator from TPM and the Dark Emperor from ROTJ.

    They also say that Palpatine in AOTC is "not yet the dark emperor".

    It's in the art book, go see for yourself.

    This is the end of your insignificant clone theory :) ;)

  9. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Actually, you didn't really post quotes. Put in the whole quotes, I have a feeling it will be more solid proof than you're saying, at least a few of them.

    Thanks FOTR. Bring an end to this conflict and bring order to the forum.
  10. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    You have to translate as well?

    Now I see why you didn't put them up already.

    If you have a hard time finding motivation to do the translations, just imagine three more years of this thread.
  11. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    ...or to ad to the confusion, input the French article into one of the online conversion tools. That would be really spiffy!
  12. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
  13. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    You're right I didn't post the quotes.

    In the french magazine studio, in 1999, there was an extensive interview with Lucas about the plot itself and the characters in TPM. Lucas said many things about the chosen one, Anakin's role, Luke's role, Qui-Gon Jin's vision of Anakin, etc ...

    When talking about the prophecy he said that things were going to turn bad before someone would bring balance to the force. He added (translating as precisely as i can) "the one who is going to put the galaxy upside down is SENATOR PALPATINE. He takes the power and turns the republic into an empire". He also added that one member of the jedi council in TPM knows that it's gonna happen.

    In the magazine "mad movies", back in 1999, Lucas said that turning Anakin to the darkside "is also part of a twisted revenge". "Obi-Wan killed the Emperor's apprentice (darth maul), so it fits that the Emperor later takes Anakin as his apprentice". The Emperor is referred to as Palpatine through the rest of the article.

    I'll give you a word for word translation tomorrow.
  14. Maverick1115 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    ODIOUS, OBIHAVE:

    Nice talking to ya...10-4, i'm out.
  15. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    No point in getting the traslation, kill the thread, its as good as dead
  16. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    By the way, I have a strong motivation to translate the quotes. The fact is that I'm in my office at the university all day, where I do not have starwars mags. My students would laugh at me anyway if they saw me reading articles on Darth Sidious !! Not to mention my esteemed colleagues !

    And when I'm home at night, my mags are in my son's bedroom. I would not wake him up for this. I always forget to pick them up before he sleeps. Tomorrow I'll try to get them.


    However, the quotes I posted in my previous post are exact. Trust me. I know these by heart !!
  17. Darth_Odious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Cool. Interesting about the member of the jedi council.
  18. lskywlker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2002
    OK, I do agree that it does seem very convienent that we all happen to know who Darth Sidious is, but here's what I think about the whole thing:
    Darth Sidious doesn't warn the Trade Federation about Amadala returning - could be because if anyone read the Darth Maul book, we see that Sidious is real big in "tough love" (for lack of a better phrase). Maybe he wanted to see what the federation would do when faced with a little surprise.
    As far as Palpentine not wanting Amadala to go back to Naboo - here's a thought...maybe he knew she had a chance to beat the federation, and he would have rather had them take control of the planet before she returned.
    As far as no one noticing him when he's standing right there - Yoda and Mace talk about it in AOTC, when they say that they are unable to uncover the one who is trying to distroy Amadala. Here's another thought, Sidious knows that Amadala will bear the children that will make Vader become Anakin again, and he wants her distroyed.
    Why would Palpentine be so interested in having "emergency powers" (hence becomming emperor) if he didn't have another plan.
    I do think however that it is possible that since we never see either fight (yet) that he's just trying to find the right person to help him control the Republic.
    But then, there's another thing I was wondering, how was Sidious trained, if they don't recognize Palpentine as one of the "fallen 20", then who did train him?
  19. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    Iskywalker :

    I seem to remember that in one of the TPM rough drafts Sidious warned the TF of Amidala's return. I think it made it into the novelization too. I'm not 100% sure of it.

    As for Palpatine no wanting the Queen to go back to Naboo, remember that he *has to act as his friend*. He must appear to be worried about her safety : he does it when he welcomes her on Coruscant in TPM ("we've been very worried ..."), he does it in AOTC ("the thought of losing you is ... unbearable"). He *always* looks worried for the queen.
    In a cut scene from AOTC, after the first assassination attempt, Palpatine almost cries before the senate when Amidala is thought to be dead.

    However, you'll notice that Palpatine is rather unconvincing when he asks Amidala to stay "here where it's safe" in TPM. Just listen to his intonation. He doesn't try too hard ! Oh, and he looks so satisfied as soon as she leaves ! He starts smiling just before it cuts to the next scene (jedi council).


    As for who exactly trained Palpatine/Sidious : It was just a Sith master. Sith and Jedi are two separate orders. The first Sith and some of his immediate followers were rogue Jedi, but after that, the sith plotted scretly against the Republic, and they recruited their own apprentices. As for the lost 20, it seems that very few of them joined the Sith lords before Dooku. I don't know whether the first sithlords are counted in the lost 20, but if not, of the 20, Dooku is probably the only Sith ! At the beginning of AOTC, Mace, Yoda, Ki & co, do not even imagine Dooku being a murderer ! Which clearly proves that leaving the order doesn't mean joining the sith.

    Sidious recruits jedi after maul's death because he has no time to train an infant apprentice. He has to take people already trained in the ways of the force : Dooku and Anakin.
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Lost 20 were the only Jedi Masters to leave the Order on their own. And none of it was due to the dark side, save for Dooku who had lied to the Council and got away with it.

    The original Sith Order was from by one Dark Jedi who formed the Sith. He in turn had recruited 50 other Jedi to his cause. The 50 fought against both the Jedi and among themselves. At the battle of Russaan, only one Sith Lord survived. This one took the name of Darth Bane and formed the current Sith Order. Each Sith Apprentice after him became Master and that one took on one Apprentice. The Sith Master to Darth Sidious took him in over 60 years ago, going by AOTC as the present day. Once fully trained and ready, he took on Maul after his Master's death.
  21. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    Am i the only one who sees no point in the coutinuation of this thread KILL IT!!!!!!!!
  22. LukeDuff Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    Re: GL Interviews

    This is the same George Lucas that said in interviews in the late 70's that we may see Luke and Leia get romantically involved in the next movie.
  23. Sometimey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    Yes of course LukeDuff. There will be an answer for everything Lucas or anyone from Lucasfilm says on the matter. Goodness knows THEY can't be trusted. Lucas didn't even know how many movies he wanted to make!

    "Well known" doesn't really mean "well known", why should it, when we still haven't figured out what "is" is? I understand, English is one of the more difficult languages to learn. Especially if you're a native speaker ;).

    "Darth Sidious is Senator Palpatine in different clothes. No clones, no twins - nothing like that." Rick McCallum, producer of Star Wars Episodes I, II, and III

    Now let's see. First of all, Rick McCallum isn't the one creating the story so really, the fans know more than he does. I'm not sure why he would make such an absolute statement. I mean, ruling out clones? Ruling out twins? As a producer, doesn't he want to make money? So why would he reveal something like this? He must think its not that important! Doesn't he know how much we at tf.n have debated this?

    You know what, what if Palpatine is from another dimension, you know, like that tv show "Sliders"? Or like that Jet Li movie "The One". That way, they could still be different people. But yet, the same! By George I think I've got it.

    "Palpatine is also Darth Sidious and that is Ian in the robe" Rick McCallum, producer Star Wars Episodes I, II, and III

    Awfully redundant this guy. Aren't we sick of people who just keep saying Palpatine is Sidious without providing anythinkg NEW? And no one is disputing that it is Ian McDiarmid playing Sidious, the Emperor and Palpatine. But isn't it possible that he shrinks whenever he is Palpatine?

    "Palpatine, well known as the evil Emperor" movie description on the back of The Phantom Menace, copyright Lucasfilm Ltd.

    Well we all know how powerful those names can become. Why, once it was just another entry in the baby book, but then it rose to be the evil Emperor. What a name. And well known? Well known to whom exactly? Why the other people in the Star Wars universe of course. Not those of us who are actually reading the box. Yes, it is well known to the Star Wars characters, just like Obi-Wan (mentioned earlier in the same sentence) Kenobi was a wise old Jedi in the original series that those same characters starred in.

    Now I'm starting to wonder if the emperor is really evil.

    ""A lot of fans don't understand that Palpatine has a dual identity. He is playing both sides for his own goals" ~ Jonathan Hales, co-writer Star Wars Episode II

    Yes we do because George Lucas has explained this over and over. For some reason George Lucas is fascinated with this Palpatine character, comparing him to Julius Caesar even (a comparison I made myself when I was ignorant). Well Julius was no clone or twin nor was he from an alternate reality. So there.

    Palpatine is the Emperor
    Sidious is the Emperor
    Palpatine is Sidious

    That's what I used to believe. But reasonable doubt has crept in. Because you know what, I once believed that Owen Lars and Obi-Wan were brothers. I have been betrayed!

    :) :) :) :) :)
  24. RogueTrader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 4
    I have it! I have Proof! Seriously. It's gonna take me a while to type it up so be patient. I found it today and I can't believe I didn't bring it up before. I've had it for a couple weeks now.

    Odius, get ready to contact the admins. and tell them to turn this into a social thread or something. This SHOULD finish the debate. If you cloners can somehow dance around this proof I'll be amazed.

    Get ready.
  25. Sometimey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    No you don't. I don't believe it. I can't believe it. No.
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