***The Official "Is Palpatine Sidious?" Debate Thread***

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Darth_Odious, Jun 7, 2002.

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  1. LukeDuff Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    No one has proven anything as far as I can tell.

    Can someone summarize this alleged proof in a couple sentences?

    As far as discarded script goes, according to spy reports an earlier draft for the script for AOTC had "Sifo-Dyas" as a made up name no one recognized. The final movie script makes it obvious it was an actual Jedi whose name is recognized by Obi-wan, Mace, and Yoda. Big change.
  2. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    I think its somewhat a case of those of us who were debating this walked away from a lack of hard evidence that would definitively end it. That's why I'm not deciding wether to lock this thread until friday. I'm hoping for some quotes that are a little more direct.

    Technically, you are correct. The artwork is not really proof. However, the debate, barring the introduction of new evidence, is moot.

    If you have new quotes or info to post here, do it while you can, and if it creates sufficient doubt, I'll just leave it up and let others advance the debate.

    I'm also still holding out hope that FOTR has some more good GL quotes.

    To those who are done with the debate, the only reason I'm leaving it up right now is that, due to the nature of the evidence we do have, it is likely that this topic will come up again by other members before the next movie. Why close the thread, only to have others recreate it later?

    GL will do more interviews, etc. I might be leaving it open for such info, I haven't decided yet.
  3. RogueTrader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 4
    So, the cloners think the conceptual artists George works with were lied to as well. Why am I not surprised? :) I'd trust these guys more than I would McCallum. They have a big part in creating these characters.

    Really, how many people working on the inside does it take to say they are the same person? So far we have McCallum, Jonathan Hales, and 3 conceptual designers. I'd say Lucas brought it up too on the dvd commentary but I know how the clone people like to warp statements to work for them. I've not heard one person out of the Lucas camp state or even hint at them being 2 people. And if this is some kind of conspiracy, it is the best kept secret in Hollywood.... ever. Why didn't they use some of these secrecy techniques during AOTC production so we didn't know the whole movie months in advance.


    Look around the forum. All I see are dead Palpatine clones. Anyone have a pushbroom.

    The clone theory's fire has gone out of the universe. You LukeDuff are all that's left of their religion. :)
  4. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    LUKEDUFF:

    I beg to differ with your comment that nothing has been proven. I would have to say that based on those quotes I posted from Lucas' interview with Leonard Maltin of Entertainment Tonight, and based on everything that has ever been written in regards to Star Wars for example; the databank, the books, the Vanity Fair March 1999 issue and the back of the box, we should all know by now that Palpatine becomes Emperor. In respect to the pro-cloners I will say the only valid question left that can be asked is who is Sidious? Not who is Palpatine. We know he becomes Emperor, the only argument against that is that Sidious steals his name and therefore all these things hold true. To me that is a bit far fetched, but like I said I respect the pro-clone notion and I have enjoyed the debate. But don't sit here and say nothing has been proven...Palpatine at the least, whether its Sidious stealing his name or not becomes Emperor.
  5. PLO_KOON_DUDE Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 2
    Yup im dead.....wow i cant believe this debate is somewhat over...the problem with keeping it opened forever is that once we mute find new evidence this thread could be lost..maybe we should just up it now and then for the sake of making it easy to ind
  6. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    LUKE DUFF, HERE ARE THESE ALLEGED QUOTES YOU ASK FOR:


    MALTIN: "Can you tell us a little about Tarkin and is he in Episode 1"

    LUCAS: "Well, Tarkin was basically a small time politician who was a governor of a small Outland Region sector until he became one of the first supporters of Palpatine. As a result of his ties with Palpatine, Tarkin steadily moved up the "political ladder" during Palpatine's climb up the political ranks, which culminates in Palpatine becoming Emperor."


    MALTIN: "Who exactly is Palpatine?"

    Lucas: "To get an idea of the kind of man Palpatine is in the prequel trilogy you need to read about the Roman Emperor, Julius Ceasar, and his spectatcular rise to power in Rome."


    Duff, they are from the man himself, please don't try and argue these. I have a copy of this interview...please, please don't argue with George.
  7. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Plo,
    I agree. We'll up it once in a while.

    Rogue,
    My point is, this thread will regenerate because of the lack of particulars. Had the conceptual artists read the final script for ep. III when that was written? Very, very doubtful. They are given assignments and they do them. Thus, I doubt that argument will prevent others from debating this topic.

    Maverick,
    Even the GL quote regarding caesar is debatable. As an example, if Palpy the clone becomes emporer, and is replaced by sidious, isn't it still true?

    PLEASE READ
    This is the last post in which I will debate the clone theory for lack of useful evidence on both sides of it. However, this thread will remain open(largely due to the fact that the anti-cloners had to tempt me and get slightly rabid at the last minute, and I knew it would annoy them) SOLELY FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF NEW EVIDENCE.

    NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE NEW EVIDENCE, OR ARE NOT POSTING ON SAID NEW EVIDENCE, PLEASE DO NOT BOTHER WITH THIS THREAD. THE EXISTING EVIDENCE, WHILE LEANING TOWARD THE ANTI-CLONE THEORY, IS NOT COMPLETELY CONCLUSIVE, SO CLOSING THIS THREAD NOW WOULD JUST GUARANTEE THE OPENING OF AN IDENTICAL THREAD IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU.

    {Not yelling, just proclaiming).

    Please do not bother debating back with me on the points I just raised, as it will quickly turn to another deadlock, as those two items can be made to be harmless to the pro-clone argument. Introduce new evidence, or, like me, take a break until someone brings something more compelling.
  8. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    In the meantime, I will try to get ahold of some GL interviews and post them in entirety, so that a context can be placed on them. I fully expect that there will be enough to definitively prove palpy=sid.
  9. Mr Bungle Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    Damn.

    Well, it's kind of funny that it took such a long time to find such clear-cut evidence to prove that Palps=Sidious, but it seems to be the case. Thanks to Oedious, because this was a GREAT theory (and one that I'll always be thinking of in the back of my head when Episode III comes out) and all the others that made incredibly good points and is one of the few that I found worth discussing/debating on the forums. There are still a few questions that I have lingering (why Sidious didn't warn the Neimodians about the Queen being on her way, why Dooku would freely give up Sidious in front of Obi-Wan...just to create mistrust???), but I guess I can let them go.Cheers! :D
  10. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Thanks to Darth Odious for all of your work. I thought a small acknowledgment was in order. Good job!

    BTW, I still think Sidious is Qui-Gon and my lobodomy (spelling?) is scheduled for Thursday morning!

    Oh Behave Kenobi
  11. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Thank you, and good luck on your lobotomy. I hear they're quite nice this time of year.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Sidious did tell Nute, Lucas just cut that out. That's why he asks Nute if the planet was secured and why he told Nute that he was sending Maul there. Lucas was cutting back on the the dialouge to create an air of unknown about Sidious.
  13. lisaordrigues Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002

    He doesn't know when to give up, this guy.

  14. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
  15. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    And you're saying this is because there's a clone, or because there is no clone? :D
  16. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    That person posted that all over the place, I hope they get booted. How annoying.
  17. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    ODIOUS YOU SAID:

    Maverick,
    Even the GL quote regarding caesar is debatable. As an example, if Palpy the clone becomes emporer, and is replaced by sidious, isn't it still true?

    ME:
    I totally agree, I was just saying that from those and the umpteen other sources we know that at the least, the name Palpatine becomes Emperor. I think it has been proven that it will be Emperor Palpatine. In respect to the pro-cloners it just a matter of who dawns the label, Emperor Palpatine.
  18. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Maverick,
    Yeah, I put together that that is what you were saying a while later. I'm a little slow on the uptake some days.

    As for the box office take, I'm not gonna worry. He only has to do one more, and that one will be guaranteed so much publicity, as it will be the end of an era, wether or not he does the right thing and makes palpy a clone or not.
  19. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    LISAORD:

    Well you have to consider a couple of things. First of all the first Star Wars probably had a lot more hype, I mean when was the last one made...oh yeah 1983 or somewhere around there? That is a long time ago. I am sure in the long run people will continue to go and see AOTC and especially when it comes out on rental, I am sure they will make a load of money. Also, your closing comments on him not directing Episode III and possibly rethinking it? I beg to differ, he has already shot one of the scenes on Tatooine. Also, George has anticipated this one as he has said in many of his interviews. This is his grand finale, he won't stop now. As far as the box office, I think I explained that, and also, if you think they won't make a bundle on the last and final Episode of Star Wars then you are not thinking.
  20. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Maverick, I agree with you 100 per cent.
  21. Maverick1115 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2002
    star 3
    ODIOUS:

    Thanks man. I actually have a bunch of friends who didn't really like the first one because it was more of a plot setting kind of like ANH up until the last thirty minutes or so. So a lot of them were skeptical of AOTC, but everyone has been talking about it so I have a bunch of friends every week going to see it for the first time. George knows what he is doing and he knows everyone wants Episode III right now, its the last show, man will it be huge.
  22. FOTR-AOTC-TTT_2002 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 3
    Here in France AOTC is a success, and many very serious film magazines which ususally dislike blockbusters praised AOTC. There are many very good reviews and analysis of the film here in France.

    It is considered by many intelectual left wing mags and papers as the best sw to date !! And I can tell you these guys bash any big budget movie coming from the US !

    AOTC is doing well at the BO. It won't be the 2002 BO champion, but who cares ?
  23. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    FOTR,
    Good to hear! To me, its one of my two favorites(ESB was hands down my previous favorite).

    Only after I view it some more times will I know if its my favorite, but I think its a great addition to the star wars saga.
  24. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Odious,

    It's very hard to make a real comparison for me. I think each of the Star Wars movies contain vastly different elements. Plus, the fact that the OT is embedded since childhood.

    Anyway,

    Palpatine is really Boba's uncle Frank (as we all know). Sidious, on the other hand, is Jar-Jar wearing a Palpatine mask.
  25. Darth_Odious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    If Palpatine is Boba's uncle Frank, and boba is a clone of Jango, doesn't that make boba's uncle his brother, palpatine?
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