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A&A The Official Jason Fry Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Oct 4, 2012.

  1. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Well, while the Pius Dea is technically the Republic, the Renunciates are technically fighting, alongside other worlds and the Jedi, to restore the Republic to its former, less imperialist & xenophobic self. You've got a scenario where even the Core is split, with Alsakan, Corellia, and Duro all being anti-Pius Dea. Coruscant is obviously still the capital, so I'm guessing your with Contispex. They probably like fancy hats like you. :p

    --Adm. Nick
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Right, they technically represent Coruscant and the Republic and all it stands for -- while the Renunciates are all the traditional enemies of Coruscant.

    But then also Pers Pradeux? The Renunciates are also associated with everything Republican thereafter.

    It's an interesting lesson in history. While Pius Dea basically WAS the Republic, their defeat allows the Renunciates to basically cast them as usurpers and illegitimate in the view of later history.

    That makes it all super interesting. Especially -- as noted -- in view of the subsequent Clone Wars and Imperial history.

    That's basically why I can't decide. Pius Dea seemed to *be* Coruscanti to the core.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  3. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    I find it hilarious that literally your only consideration is the allegiance of Coruscant.
     
  4. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 28, 2003
    Just because the Pius Dea held Coruscanti doesn't mean they are truly the Republic. They were RINO, Republic in name only. The Pius Dea ceased being the true Republic in my eyes the second it started xenophobic crusades, aggressive expansion, and trampling on its own member worlds. I can't imagine that even your beloved Coruscanti elite approved of this, especially when you consider that by the end of the Pius Dea period old nobles were pushed out of power in favor to those who either were related to a Contispex or loyal to their cause.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    No, that's very true Nick. They're badg ally a narrow faction. That's why I have trouble figuring out my read on all this.

    Hilarious? I did it a pretty reliable and reassuring standard :p


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  6. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    ...What is "badg ally"?

    Oh, "basically".
     
  7. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    "Basically". I'm fluent in Jello's phone at this point.
     
  8. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2003
    The question is, what's the PHONE fluent in?
     
  9. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    jasonfry, what is the deal with Star Battlecruiser and Star Dreadnought at this point, because the Anaxes War College System seems to have given Wookieepedia the impression that they should just use Battlecruiser and Dreadnought going forward, only using Star Battlecruiser and Star Dreadnought when something hasn't been identified by the Anaxes War College System? This is particularly awkward for the Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought and Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser, which wasn't specifically mentioned in TEGtW so it is stuck being referred to as a Super Star Destroyer and the Praetor-class family was forced to abandon the Star Battlecruiser designation. Don't Kuati ships use the Star prefix terminology?
     
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  10. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

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    Nov 11, 2003

    I feel like I'm coming in in the middle of something and need a little more detail. What references to Star Battlecruiser and Star Dreadnought are you referring to?
     
  11. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The terms Star Battlecruiser and Star Dreadnought seem to have been abandoned according to the terminology of the Anaxes War College System. Well, that is the impression that Wookieepdia got, which has led them to no longer use the old terms in the article names for ships first identified or recently referenced in TEGtW. Which as I previously mentioned, has proved particularly awkward for the Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought and Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser line.

    I am wondering if the Anaxes War College System terms of Battlecruiser and Dreadnought are meant to supersede the terms Star Battlecrusier and Star Dreadnought as the formal class naming terminology for the largest ships, even though these old terms are apparently a Kuati term and virtually everything larger than a Star Destroyer is a Kuati ship. What are the formal class names for all of the big Kuati ships?

    Your attempt to create a consistent class naming scheme has been in effective with much inconsistency, because Wookieepedia goes by the most recent reference. So the class name of the Executor-class is still Executor-class Star Dreadnought according to Wookieepedia, since there is a burden of proof, while the Sovereign-class wasn't directly referenced in TEGtW and has never been formally referred to as Sovereign-class Star Dreadnought either, so Wookieepedia is stuck using the informal Super Star Destroyer in the class name. The Mandator-class Star Dreadnought line uses the Star Dreadnaught spelling on Wookieepedia for the Mandator I-class and Mandator-class, because that was apparently the term that was used at the time, while the Mandator III-class is just referred to as a Dreadnought since that is how it was referenced in TEGtW. The way the Praetor-class line was referenced in TEGtW led Wookieepedia to abandon the term Star Battlecruiser for the formal name for the Praetor I-class Star Battlecruiser, which is what the original class would appear to be named given the addition of the Praetor II-class, and since the Praetor II-class Star Battlecruiser was initially referred to as the Praetor Mark II-class battlecruiser in TEGtW, that is the name Wookieepedia has went with, even though FFG later used the term Star Battlecruiser.

    I just think Star Battlecruiser and Star Dreadnought are such a cool bit a terminology unique to KDY, that I don't want the terms to be abandon just because Wookieepedia takes everything LFL says verbatim, no matter the implications.
     
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  12. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2003

    Ah. I think I see. Thanks, Zeta.

    This is really a Wookieepedia argument, which I'm not getting into beyond acknowledging that it's a lot easier to say what WP ought to do from the outside than it is from inside WP.

    The rest of this will fall under authorial intent rather than canon, and so probably be of no help to you. But I'll try:

    * The formal class names under the Anaxes system are corvette, frigate, cruiser, heavy cruiser, star destroyer, battlecruiser, dreadnought. That system was designed as an in-universe system, because that was the consistent POV in EGTW. But it was also crafted with an eye to classifying things out of universe. Yes, that system was meant to supersede previous terms *when talking about capital ships formally in terms of class.*

    * A KDY engineer would indeed call a Praetor-type ship a Star Battlecruiser and a Ravager-type ship a Star Dreadnought, and she'd be correct because she was *talking about capital ships in terms of corporate marque.* In fact, she'd probably get fired if she didn't refer to them that way. I agree the Star- prefix for KDY ships is a cool bit of terminology and culture that adds to the Star Wars galaxy and ought to remain a part of it.

    * Yes, the Anaxes system includes the KDY corporate marque of Star Destroyer. The in-universe reason is that term was being extensively used in a generic way on battlefields at the time, similar to the way we talk about Xeroxing something, Googling it or asking for a Q-tip. Note that Republic analysts of the time argued about that.

    Messy? Sure. But such things always are. I imagine folks discussing cars refer to them by their formal model name, sales category, regulatory classification, transmission type, etc. depending on their job and POV. And they're all correct. The issue is deciding which of those perfectly valid categories should be primary for making an online encyclopedia. And that's not my business.

    Hope that's some meager help. Apologies if not.
     
  13. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    So the Executor-class, Assertor-class, Procurator-class, and other big ships, even though pretty much all of them are Star Battlecruiser or Star Dreadnought according KDY, are formally battlecruiser or dreadnought, but Star Battlecruiser or Star Dreadnought are still valid alternate names? I would think corporate marque would supersede a generic classification system. Authorial intent does help in these matters, but it doesn't look like it is going to have the desired effect of formally establishing Star Battlecruiser and Star Dreadnought as the formal class name terminology for all of the big KDY ships, especially when all of the big ships haven't necessarily been formally identified as KDY products such as the Vengeance-class, Assertor-class, Allegiance-class, and Procursator-class. Though this might be enough to fix the mess that is the Sovereign-class.
     
  14. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    It's like with "battlecruiser", it started as a flashy portmanteau for British naval vessels that could combine the speed of a cruiser with the firepower of a battleship and thus hunt down the older armored cruisers other countries had. So the term stuck, even though the battlecruiser models eventually became outdated and the nearest thing that proved effective were the "fast battleships" (which the Bellator-class was a nice reference to).

    The word "dreadnought" was likewise a selling term based on the HMS Dreadnought and its innovations at the time, creating an entire generation of battleships based on its design.

    In Star Wars, I guess the "Star Destroyer" was likewise an innovation whose name stuck for decades.
     
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  15. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Hi Jason - mind if I ask a quick and rather belated question about this?

    You mention in the Secret Academy article that the updated Finalizer information will appear in future printings of the Cross-Sections book. What is the best way to find out, if there even is a way to find out, when such future printings might occur?

    (Yeah, I know I ought to just buy it now, and I want to, but I'm that guy who'd need to buy it again once the new printing with correct info comes out. You know the type. You should have seen how much I hesitated before I finally broke down and bought Ultimate Star Wars because I was sure they were planning an updated edition for the UK market.)
     
  16. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

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    Nov 11, 2003

    Afraid I don't know. Not sure DK knows either ... or if they do, they don't tell writers. Sorry about that!
     
  17. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    It's all good, thanks for the response. No point in waiting if I don't know how long I'll have to wait, so I'll go ahead and pick up the existing printing next opportunity I have to hit up ye olde Amazon.
     
  18. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2003

    I feel bad about you buying an entirely new printing to get a different number and one different word, though. When the time goes I'd be happy to send you a personalized Post-It note or something.... [face_blush]
     
  19. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

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    Nov 11, 2003
    [sorry, sleepy/impatient double post]
     
  20. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    LOL it's a deal! Of course, at my house there's precedent for having more than one copy of your books floating around. My daughter got a copy of Rey's Survival Guide for Christmas and refused to keep it on my Star Wars bookshelf...what else was I to do except buy one for myself? :)
     
  21. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I just ignore it, just like I ignore most of TOR and the post YJK stuff
     
  22. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    It would be interesting if the Empire presented the Pius Dea as heroes who have been smeared over the millenia by revisionist Jedi historians. Maybe the Pius Dea religion was the official religion of the Empire, hence The Force being seen as an "ancient religion."
     
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  23. Kez-Iban

    Kez-Iban Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    The essential guides and the atlas are must haves for me and I would love to see updates as well. It would be interesting to see how much they would change with all, or most, of the non canon Legends stuff stripped away. Hopefully the Star Wars story group would be merciful and let all of the maps in the atlas stay just as they are, Legends worlds and all, while adding the more recently revealed canon world's.
     
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  24. BeesInABar

    BeesInABar Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2015
    I think I'd prefer not to have any comprehensive guides for a while. The new canon is, well, new. And we shouldn't be hemming in authors at this point.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  25. Kez-Iban

    Kez-Iban Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I agree about not hemming any authors in. Maybe after Episode IX the time would be right for at least a new atlas. I was looking through my atlas this morning, and noticing just how much of it would now be considered Legends content. Since the atlas was published, we have seen the entire Clone Wars series, a couple seasons of Rebels, as well as new books, comics and a movie. By the time the new trilogy is done there should be enough new content to make for a great second edition. I hope the maps themselves and most of the Legends planet names and locations, with the obvious exception of Korriban, have remained canon. If they remain as names and locations on a map and nothing more, I don't see how that would cause a problem for current canon. Anyway, I hope at some point when the time is right we get a second edition of the atlas.
     
  26. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000
    I saw that we're getting a new Jupiter Pirates story next week. Looking forward to it, Jason. How's it fit in timeline-wise with The Curse of the Iris and The Rise of Earth?