A&A The Official Kathy Tyers Discussion Thread

Both TAB and BP are great books, they're pretty high on my favourite list and its IMO that BP was the best book that the NJO ever produced. Kathy Tyer's does an excellent job in characterization and it used to be that I thought the only people who can nail Mara dead on was MAS and TZ, but how she wrote Mara just impressed me greatly. My only gripes with TAB was how she didn't go very deeply into Luke and his feelings towards his father, but I loved the Leia and her feelings towards Vader scenes.

 

--How come male SW fans never have these complaints?--
I think the answer is fairly obvious.

Myself, I prefer to read about characters, not ageless gods/goddesses in skintight black leather.

 

I'm a huge fan of "The Truce at Bakura." It was the first expanded universe Star Wars novel I read and it blew me away. Obviously from my username, her introduction of a new villain/species was cool as all-get-out in my opinion.
I also loved her stories in the Tales from Mos Eisley and Jabba's Palace anthologies.

Balance Point, however, I'm still on the fence about. I loved the characterization of Jacen, Mara, and Leia. And the last 75-50 pages were awesome as always. But it seemed to drag in places before that. Now, I'm not the kind of guy who wants all-action all the time--far from it in fact, I think the best SW moments are the most personal/intimate moments of the characters--but this just felt flat in the first half.

Either way, I do consider myself a fan and I look forward to her next contribution to the GFFA.

 

Myself, I prefer to read about characters, not ageless gods/goddesses in skintight black leather

The two are certainly not mutually exclusive...

 

I learned some sad news...her book Crown of Fire, the last one in the Firebird trilogy, is going out of print.

I thought that it was a pretty good novel, had lots of action, and made me cry thinking someone had died at the end of the book (thank you Kathy!).

Like I've said before, TAB was the first SW novel I ever read (and bought- I was in 5th grade). BP was good, because it characterized Jacen and Leia well, and for once I wasn't screaming "jerk!" at Jacen. He felt more real to me in BP then he had in the other NJO ones.

 

Is there a scene in any of the books where it goes on about Leia's Barbie-doll figure and some teenage boy who's related to her by marriage "drools on the carpet" over her?

Possibly not, but authors feel like they can take more liberties with characters created for the EU than with a movie character from the movies.

 

I liked her writing in BP. I was really getting sick of Jacen though. He is such a punk in BP. However, I absolutely loved the way he beat the crap out of the Warmaster and saved Leia.

 

I have a problem with TAB, and I'm wondering if I'm alone. That novel came very close to killing the EU for me. It wasn't that the book was bad - it wasn't - but I can't seem to get past that scene where Anakin Skywalker makes a visitation to Leia. It was, IMHO, terrible. It was the only time that Leia has been given a chance to speak to her Father- and it was exceptionally boring. Leia behaved like an adolescent with a chip on her shoulder, and Anakin was more condescending than apologetic. The dialogue was off, it was choppy...I was disappointed to say the least. Then later on, Leia tells Luke about the visit in this 'Oh, by the way...' tone. *sigh* Their conversation goes downhill after that.
Out of curiosity - did anyone else have problems with that scene or is it just me?

 

No, you're not the only one. I thought that scene was extremely cheezy and cliche. I couldn't believe how out of character Leia and Han were in that book..ugh, I still get nightmares thinking about that floating pillow scene.

I don't like either of Kathy Tyers' books, TAB for the mischaracterization of Leia and Han, and BP for basically being one long Mary Sue book of Mara Jade worshipping...

 

I don't know where some people are getting that the Luke/Mara scenes in BP were overly gushy or syrupy. I thought they were very tender and well-written.

As for Mara still being pretty at age 40-whatever: First of all, I think SW people have longer life spans to begin with. Second of all, remember Mara's kept herself in top physical condition which keeps you looking younger for a longer period of time.

And as for Kathy focusing more on L/M than H/L, well, I'm pretty sure Luke is her favorite character, and I know she's always wanted to write Mara. Plus, H/L had more "screen time" as a married couple throughout the whole EU, whereas L/M are more recently wed. And with the introduction of the baby into the picture, it was only natural.

Truce at Bakura is one of my fav. SW books ever. It was actually the first novel I read, and I love Gaeriel!

 

I loved TRUCE at BAKURA! It's my all-time favorite SW book! BALANCE POINT is one of my three favorite NJO books. Kathy Tyers does great characterizations! She's one of the very few authors who write Luke Skywalker well.

I would really love to see Kathy Tyers write a book about Luke and Mara in which they find out about Mara's background together. Luke and Mara have been written so poorly throughout most of the NJO. It would be nice to see them well-written again.

 

Kathy Tyers has done the ALL-TIME best portrayl of Mara Jade Skywalker. And, she didn't create Luke and Mara as mushy lovers; she had them argue, talk, and work together. There were moments to be together, but considering that all of Luke's previous romances have been...well...crap, it was nice to see him in a healthy relationship. What's wrong with that?

Sometimes Mara and Luke can be mushy, (I'm speaking for NJO novels in general, I didn't see that in BP), but I've seen some pretty bad couples in real life. They're not much better.

As far as Han and Leia...We've been able to see Han and Leia all through the EU books. Courtship of Princess Leia, having their kids in TTT and DE, Han comforting Leia in The Truce of Bakura, (Tyers novel, might I add), Leia's remorse in SotE, her recovery in...Recovery, and then there's the NJO books Rebel Stand, which I believe, has a lot of parts with Leia/Han together. Then, there's the movies themselve, where Luke gets no lovin'. And, of course, the new Tatooine Ghost books coming out soon, where Luke plays a speck role in finding out about his parent's heritage while Leia and Han go out to find it.

Mara and Luke have had the NJO and Union to get together as husband and wife. Tyers has done the best portrayl I've seen of them. It's one of the reasons why I wanted to read NJO--to see the Luke and Mara as hubby and wife.

And, just in case Ms. Tyers reads this...WRITE A MARA/LUKE STORY. PLEASE! YOU'RE VERY GOOD WITH THOSE TWO.

 

I started reading NJO again because of Balance Point. I think it was well written even with the existence of the Vongs. I never liked Vongs and never will...

Anyway, Shelley... FYI - all the fans of Han/Leia/Luke/Mara/Lando/Wedge/Talon, in other words - all the original trilogies fans should stick together because there's a possibility they're being replaced by the end of the NJO. Stop bickering and choosing sides between H/L or L/M. Star Wars is about Luke, Leia and all the characters. Focusing a whole book on either one or two characters is limiting the Star Wars universe. This is my main gripe with the NJO series.

And to play fair, since Han/Leia is getting Tatooine Ghost - I'll join the petition for Ms Tyers to write the next book on Luke and Mara Skywalker.

 

Thank you, Skydancer. Good post.

 

I very much enjoyed TRUCE AT BAKURA! While I'm not a big fan of the NJO, BALANCE POINT was one of the few that I liked. Kathy Tyers is my favorite SW author.

I too would LOVE to see another Kathy Tyers book, especially one focusing on Luke and Mara. Those two characters have been butchered so much in most of the NJO books (and in many Bantam books too). Kathy Tyers likes the character of Luke Skywalker and it shows in her characterizations of him. As others have said, she's one of the very few who writes Mara well too.

I agree with Skywalker's Son: I would like to see Luke and Mara discover Mara's parentage together or else have them work on a 'Mission Impossible' kind of mission together. They make a great team! It would be wonderful if Kathy could write one of those two stories.

As for BALANCE POINT, as I understand it, BP was supposed to focus on Jacen and two others, and Kathy chose Leia and Mara. BP did focus on those three characters.

Kathy Tyers was only supposed to write the beginning of the reconciliation between Han and Leia. Another author was supposed to write a trilogy where the reconcilition would be completed. It was LFL's and Del Rey's decision in the first place to estrange Han and Leia. It was also their decision to cancel the books that followed BALANCE POINT, so I don't know why anyone would blame Mrs. Tyers for something that wasn't her fault.

I will be forever grateful to Kathy Tyers for encouraging Del Rey to allow Luke and Mara to have a child. I have wanted Luke to have children for years! I fully expected to meet Skywalker children already when I heard that VECTOR PRIME would take place six years after VOTF. I was very disappointed to find that not only didn't Luke and Mara have any kids, but that Mara had an illness which would probably prevent her from ever having them.

I still don't understand why Luke and Mara weren't allowed to have children earlier. The six years of peace between VOTF and VP would have been a perfect time for them to have kids. I also don't understand why any SW fan would be bitter and resent Luke finally getting to be a father when Han and Leia had already been parents for 16 or more years.

We Luke fans have suffered through many, many bad books. Thankfully, TRUCE AT BAKURA and BALANCE POINT weren't among them!

Please, Del Rey and LFL, let Kathy Tyers write a Luke and Mara book!

 

I can't speak for all Luke and Mara fans, but believe me, Shelley, as far as I'm concerned, Luke and Mara fans have NOT gotten what we want. About all we did finally get was a child for Luke and Mara. Is that so awful? Luke has been treated like an incompetent wimp and Mara has been written like a witchy nag throughout most of the NJO. That is NOT how I want to see them written!

Kathy Tyers writes Luke and Mara very well. I really loved TRUCE and BP was good for an NJO book. Ms. Tyers has admitted to being a Luke fan. So what? Shelly Shapiro admits to being a Han fan. I appreciate their honesty. I do hope Kathy Tyers will get to write about Luke and Mara again in a future SW book.

Jedi Wendy

 

all anyones asking for here is a little fairness.

i'm not angry that l/m get a lot of love scenes, i'm upset that h/l get so few. its even more frustrating when h/l are purposely cut short. if tyers wants to write loads of mushy l/m scenes, thats fine, just reserve it to separate books.

and yes, i'm very excited about tatooine ghost.

 

indeed. i think perhaps a younger han might have had that reaction, but at that point in his life, with leia, i just dont see it as plausible. but to be fair, luke had some pretty crappy character moments too. throughout most of the EU he's *boring*

thanks, glad you like my site the wallpapers are more fun than they should be

 

O.K., this post is going to be long.
First off, I really enjoy Kathy Tyers writing.

Secondly, Guys, I never thought I'd ever see Luke and Leia in too different camps.

As you can probably tell by my icon, I think that Luke and Leia being siblings,and twins no less, belong together. They are like a package deal.

Now my favorite character is Luke, but after that it's Leia. A lot (not all, but a lot) of what I've read here is very disrespectful of Luke. I don't understand how you can appreciate Leia, yet undervalue Luke.
The fact that Leia is Luke's sister makes me care about Leia very much. And those of you who care about Leia, should care about Luke.

Now I'm very disappointed that Mara has been written like such a shrew. I would have loved to see Luke marry a much more sweet compassionate person (she could still be sassy as well). I am happy that Luke finally has a spouse though. And I want Mara to be written as a better person.

I think that originally, Mara was introduced as another person in need of redemption, and Luke is great at that obviously. I also think that after being redeemed, she was supposed to be similar to Han in personality (tough on the outside, but with a great heart, once her exterior was melted). But the authors that followed messed her up, and Zahn didn't redeem her well.

I really don't think the way she is, is the way she was supposed to be. But I continue to hope for improvement because I don't want Luke to be alone.
I think Kathy Tyers was really doing her best (considering all the restrictions that editors place on authors) to improve Mara.

Anyway, I don't diss Han and Leia if Luke has a less amount of pages than them in whatever book. Please don't knock Luke or his child because you dislike Mara so much. If she shows up, it's by association to Luke. Besides, Luke fans acknowledge her flaws, and want her to treat him better.

I hated to hear about Han and Leia suffering so much. It's disgusted me.
But the fact is that as far as dignity and respect for characterization go, Han and Leia are portrayed much better than Luke is in the NJO.

Luke is being hit where it does the most damage to him, in his abilities to lead as head Jedi Master. He is being diminished, put down and ridiculed from all directions regarding his abilities in the Force and his abilities to lead. That would be like Han being diminished in his abilities as a pilot, at being a smart alik (sp?), at getting out of tough situations and at being a decent guy. And it would be like Leia's political/dimplomatic abilities, and her bravery being diminished (I use these examples because its what Han and Leia's characters have been known for most and enjoyed for most).
As far as characters go, Luke is in a way worse situation than Han and Leia are.

And by the way I really enjoy Han also, and let's not forget that Han and Luke care very much about eachother.

Also, I think it's a shame that Tatooine Ghosts won't have Leia and Luke TOGETHER.
Like I said before, Luke and Leia, to me, are a package deal. They were intended to be closest to eachother than to any other characters. That's how the end of ROTJ set it up, and that shouldn't change with the characters ages. The NJO books have REALLY let these characters down in that department.

I would always hope that in a story, if Luke had an adventure, that Leia were very important in it.

Han/Leia fans, don't forget that the Han and Leia characters were created to aid and accompany Luke on his "Hero's Journey".
It's always been "THE BIG THREE".
The NJO has done alot to mess this up.
I hate to see their fans divided.
It doesn't bode well for any of "THE BIG THREE"

Well, here's hoping for many more years of better treatment for them.

Michelle

 

I think that originally, Mara was introduced as another person in need of redemption, and Luke is great at that obviously. I also think that after being redeemed, she was supposed to be similar to Han in personality (tough on the outside, but with a great heart, once her exterior was melted). But the authors that followed messed her up, and Zahn didn't redeem her well.

I completely agree with you here, Michelle. I liked Mara quite a bit in the original Zahn trilogy, but I grew to dislike her in the last two Zahn books and the NJO.

But the fact is that as far as dignity and respect for characterization go, Han and Leia are portrayed much better than Luke is in the NJO.

I think they have all been treated poorly. Han has been shown as being an alcoholic who walks out on his family, Leia has been a cold workaholic, and Luke has been incredibly selfish who doesn't care about anything other than Mara or the baby.

Luke is being hit where it does the most damage to him, in his abilities to lead as head Jedi Master. He is being diminished, put down and ridiculed from all directions regarding his abilities in the Force and his abilities to lead. That would be like Han being diminished in his abilities as a pilot, at being a smart alik (sp?), at getting out of tough situations and at being a decent guy.

Han was terribly mischaracterized in the NJO books. It showed him as being weak in the way he turned into an alcoholic over Chewie's death. It showed him as being callous and selfish in the way he walked out on Leia and their children. There were several lines where he was an outright insensitive jerk, such as when he says "Don't get me started on Alderaan" to Leia. So I would not agree that Han has not been mischaracterized in the NJO.

And it would be like Leia's political/dimplomatic abilities, and her bravery being diminished (I use these examples because its what Han and Leia's characters have been known for most and enjoyed for most).

Leia hasn't fared much better. Keep in mind, I AGREE with you that Luke hasn't been shown well either. But neither has Leia. She has been shown as being a terrible mother (Jaina prefers Mara to her), an irresponsible aunt by losing Ben, a useless Force-inept (she can't even save herself and constant references are made to her lack of Force skills in Balance Point, despite her being proclaimed a Jedi during the Bantam books), a neglectful wife, and a workaholic who always chooses work over her family. She has been shown as a failure or washout as a politican, mother, wife Jedi, or aunt at one time or another.

And by the way I really enjoy Han also, and let's not forget that Han and Luke care very much about eachother.

That is true, and it is something that has been entirely ignored in the NJO. I can't believe Luke would be so selfish as to not be too concerned that his best friend and brother in law was a drunk who abandoned his wife and children. Luke never even seemed worried over Han and Leia's marriage being on the rocks, either.

One of the worst things Luke did in the series, in my opinion, was how, immediately after he found out Leia was severely hurt, he focused all his attention on Mara and their baby and hardly spared a thought about Leia's condition. That isn't the Luke I know from the movies. Luke and Leia share a special bond, and I consider the way Luke has pushed Leia, Han and anyone that isn't Mara and the baby away to concentrate solely on his wife and son extremely out of character. Luke is first and foremost a compassionate person.

That's how the end of ROTJ set it up, and that shouldn't change with the characters ages. The NJO books have REALLY let these characters down in that department.

I completely agree with you here as well, Michelle.

 

Hi eeyore,

Thanks for being so civil in your response, I thought I was going to be attacked.

I'm disturbed by the stuff you mentioned also, regarding all of the characters.

But,with Han's drunken escapades, aren't we supposed to feel sorrow for him in those scenes, not contempt?

And with Leia and baby Ben, I think Mara is the one that comes off bad there (unfortunately for her character), I mean that could of happened to anyone, probably, (well not if she had more Jedi skills, that back and forth on Leia being or not being a Jedi still boggles my mind).

And about Leia and Jaina, that's just wrong. Why was that done? Well I think that makes Jaina look bad. She is stepping all over her mother there. And how in the heck can someone go to the darkside so much so that they have Force lightning (which I believe is only of the dark side), and just come back like if nothing happened. No one is shocked, no reprimands. Eventhough it was brief, she seemed way gone down the dark path. Someone described it as "to the darkside and back in under 12 parsecs".
That is ridiculous. Just another way that Del Rey has been absurd in these stories.

And about Luke, (putting the deaths of children aside) I think he has been done a huge disservice for a lot longer than Han and Leia have. Luke had SOME good moments in the Bantam books, but ALOT left much to be desired. If he wasn't physically being put the wringer and being badly hurt, then emotionally he was in like a state of depression for much of Bantam. He is constantly criticized and looked down upon by too many, including students. This after risking so much, countless times for the sake of all. And with the NJO, it's just getting worse.

I think Han and Leia together, are a reward, if you will, for one another. Compensation for the pains of life. Before the NJO, and now that they are together again, that will continue.

I felt that Luke, being the one that was put through the most in the movies and in Bantam, (in a group of people that have all suffered) really needed some compensation. He didn't get any in the Bantam books, I was hoping that marriage would offer that to him finally. And that's why I feel that Kathy Tyers is the only one that offers Luke the reward that he has been long overdue since A New Hope.

She made his specialness shine through in Truce at Bakura, but he wasn't rewarded there. Which is why in Balance Point, I can see why she wanted to reward him somehow. She was thinking about what people like me feel about Luke's lack of reward in life.
Happily married moments and baby Ben are a reward for Luke. But who knows how that's gonna end up when this series is over.
And by the next book, Mara was back to being mishandled.

For Han and Leia, the deaths of Chewie and Anakin, and Leia's torture have been disgusting. But those things happening to people connected to them makes me think that Han and Leia themselves will make it out of these horrible books all right. And Ms. Shapiro loves Han so they will be all right.
I wish I felt that sure about Luke. I get the feeling that they are meaning to get rid of him (God Forbid!)

And about Tatooine Ghosts, the fact that Luke won't be with Leia, when something about their family is found out is plain and simple a slap in the face to the character of Luke Skywalker. They should be together when finding out about such important stuff. And it's on his home planet for goodness sakes!
It makes me wonder how far DelRey and LFL won't go to leave Luke out of the picture.

The idea of Luke and Leia together , after having had such a sad start in life, and being apart for 18 years, should mean something a lot more special to SW fans than it apparently does.

Well, Take Care

Michelle

 

i agree, luke has been mishandled throughout the EU. I'm glad he finally has a wife (even tho i hate her!) and has a family. I dont object to l/m mushy scenes, i agree, luke needs some good things to happen to him too. I just get irked when a major scene between han and leia gets short changed, and then tyers specifically says she could have done it better, but she likes luke and mara more.

as for tatooine ghost, we really dont know what leia is going to find out. it cant be too much because in later books, no one seems to know a whole lot. I dont think luke should be in on this one. the summary states that leia's purpose in going to tatooine is to recover an artifact. if indeed she was going specifically to uncover secrets about her father, then i agree, luke should be there. but i'm really looking forward to seeing han and leia alone together pre-bratty children

 

Hi Michelle,

I'm not really one for attacking I enjoy discussion about the original three(I really should be in bed right now though!)

Part of the reason Han was turned into an alcoholic may have been to create sympathy, but most of his actions aside from the alcoholism - blaming Anakin for Chewie and treating Leia harshly - only served for viewers to view him as an insensitive and callous man. I heard many posters said they could never respect Han as a hero again after how he reacted to Chewie's death.

As for Leia, the main thing that bothered me was how everyone was treating her. Han walked out on her, Luke didn't seem to care one way or another about her or her marriage, Jaina began to critisize her for being a bad mother, the New Republic treated her horribly, and she was tortured by the Vong partly because she was too "weak at the Force" to escape on her own. Regardless of who looks bad, the point I was trying to make was that everyone was viewing Leia as being a failure, and I'm sure that has very damaging effects on someone, in particular someone who has gone through as much emotional trauma as Leia has.

I'm not saying Luke hasn't been shortchanged (because he definitely has) but I think all three of them have been badly handled.

Just wanted to say I totally agree with you here:

well not if she had more Jedi skills, that back and forth on Leia being or not being a Jedi still boggles my mind)

That is one of the (many) annoying things about the NJO. Leia was proclaimed a Jedi by the end of the Bantam series, why revert her back to being weak and inept in the Force? Now everyone is saying she was never a Jedi, even though Luke, Han, and Leia herself called her a Jedi in Bantam.

And how in the heck can someone go to the darkside so much so that they have Force lightning (which I believe is only of the dark side), and just come back like if nothing happened. No one is shocked, no reprimands. Eventhough it was brief, she seemed way gone down the dark path. Someone described it as "to the darkside and back in under 12 parsecs".

I agree with you here as well. The way the EU has used going to the Dark Side and coming back as something that can be done easily without many consequences undermines the movies and Anakin's redemption.

And about Luke, (putting the deaths of children aside) I think he has been done a huge disservice for a lot longer than Han and Leia have. Luke had SOME good moments in the Bantam books, but ALOT left much to be desired. If he wasn't physically being put the wringer and being badly hurt, then emotionally he was in like a state of depression for much of Bantam.

That's true, and I think Luke fans are entirely justified in thinking Luke was handled poorly in Bantam. And I'm glad he got married, although Mara Jade is definitely not my first choice. Of the EU females, my first choice would probably be Gaerial from TAB.

For Han and Leia, the deaths of Chewie and Anakin, and Leia's torture have been disgusting. But those things happening to people connected to them makes me think that Han and Leia themselves will make it out of these horrible books all right.

At what price will they come out of everything though? How would anyone ever fully heal from the loss of a child? Leia has been through so much in her life (Alderaan, trying to accept Vader as her father, her and Han's separation, her torture, and now the loss of her youngest son) I doubt she will ever be able to completely heal from all that has happened to her.

I get the feeling that they are meaning to get rid of him (God Forbid!)

I am sure they won't kill off Luke. Everything major has to run by Lucas and I'm sure Lucas would never approve of that.

The idea of Luke and Leia together , after having had such a sad start in life, and being apart for 18 years, should mean something a lot more special to SW fans than it apparently does.

I agree, and I am deeply saddened by how Luke and Leia's relationship has been portrayed over the years. Luke has been

 

Uhh let me ask all of you who feel H/L have been done poorly ... how long have you been married? Have any of you ever separated from your spouse? Have you reconciled? Do any of you know what its like?

Well, I can tell you ... and the way KT handled it is bang on. After so many years, the passion is replaced with a comfortable flame ... and when that flame fickers or burns low, it is damn hard to get back to where you started. It takes perseverance and lots of hard work. And remember, we are not seeing all that we were supposed to see. With the cancellation of Knightfall, a lot is and remains missing.

I agree that there are lots of issues yet to be resolved, but dumping on KT is inappropriate. If ANYONE deserves a dump, it is DR for destroying the GFFA.

 

HELLO

Most H/L fans are people who saw AHN in 1977. We're old. The you're too young and inexperience Lamo argument that people love to pull out of their hats when others disagree with them DOES NOT WORK HERE!

Many of us have been married for a long time. TWENTY YEARS for me.

The reconcilation scene was NOT bang on for me.