The Official Legacy of the Force: Fury Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rogue_Follower, Oct 30, 2007.

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  1. Rouge77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    That's really it, I agree. I can't bother deluding myself in believing that there is a small chance that there will be a huge twist at the end of Invicible and this wouldn't be all that there is. There seems to be no reason for this series except to kill Jacen and Mara, throw what remains of NJO's supposed great revelations about the Force in the dustbin and sell as many books as possible. There is no real, gripping story in Jacen's fall, just a skeleton of a plot that somehow stumbled on until the end of Sacrifice, but got stuck in the beginning of Inferno in the old, tired, insane villain clichees.[face_plain]
  2. Master_Palpy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 2
    Allana didn't stab anyone. She threatened him with her injector; the one we've seen in Tempest.

    And you, Stary, called Caedus a "Sith wannabe".
  3. Rouge77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 5
    Let's see... He could do some Sith stuff. Train an apprentice and in the scenes about this reveal his knowledge of history of the Sith and Sith traditions. Dabble in Sith lore and alchemy. Have a nice little chat with Sith spirits that would accept him as Sith Lord. Become publicly known to be Sith Lord and be treated as one by others. That kind of stuff.

    Currently he acts like an insane Dark Jedi, who can't control himself, and occasionally says to himself "I am Darth Caedus." Oh, and we get few mentions that he does Sith meditation.

    I do accept that he is a Sith Lord, but from the bottom of the barrel based on LotF.
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Oh yeah, whatever happened with Jacen's apprentice? It was a big plotline until Lumiya died, it seems like "Darth Caedus" has forgotten about it.
  5. NewStaryknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2007
    star 4
    I kept hearing from someone that she actually stabbed him at some point. I guess they weren't reading it right. I ask because it seems that Jacen revealing that he's her father will play an important role in the remainder of the series. What I can't decide is if her love for her father will redeem him or corrupt her. And yeah, I called Cadeus a Sith wannabe. What of it?
  6. NewStaryknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2007
    star 4
    He can't dabble in Sith lore and alchemy or reveal his knowledge of Sith history and traditions untill he actually goes out and learns them. He's too busy trying to take over the galaxy to do that. Sith spirits are more rare than force ghosts and even if they did show up I doubt they would accept him if they don't accept Krayt in the future. And as of right now, nobody likes Jacen enough to even want to talk to him let alone be trained by him to be a Sith. Who besides Allana and Tahiri would want to be trained at anything by him?
  7. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    There is no real, gripping story in Jacen's fall, just a skeleton of a plot that somehow stumbled on until the end of Sacrifice...
    -- Rouge77

    Well put. The way it looked to me, he started night siding after meeting a total stranger and known uncle nemesis as though it was flipping a switch.
  8. Excellence Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 7

    This series should have been condensed to a quartet, written by one author.

    Preferably Troy, who's already started the new development from the nest trilogy, and Karen can focus on her Mandie books. I don't know what Aaron's doing these days, but I'm sure fan lust brought him into the picture.

    One author from genesis to epilogue could have tightened this series. And a publisher sho doesn't bloat coffers by needless books and filler entrees.
  9. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Caedus is still working on an apprentice occasionally, as he still hopes to have Ben be his Sith apprentice. That whole Ben torture in Inferno was meant to break Ben and make him a worthy Sith apprentice for the great Darth Caedus (:rolleyes: ). Caedus can't really quite start using red lightsabers yet, as the GA might be a bit wary of that imagery and reference to Vader (but considering how dumb the galaxy is, he'll probably get away with it). When Luke, Saba and Ben confronted Caedus in this book, Fury, to distract Caedus from noticing their rescue of Allana, Caedus noted that after he insulted them he didn't feel a flicker of anger from neither Luke or Ben, and Caedus thought that was "distressing," "time away from him appeared to have undone all the good he'd done Ben during their last session" was the exact quote. Yes, it sounds that horrible and wrong. So Caedus is still working on turning Ben, but Allana just happened to take priority this book, with the Hapan withdrawal and Tenel Ka's "betrayal". So far, Ben appears to have pulled back from the edge, but given the title of the next book, anything can happen.
  10. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    More ways in which Jacen is stupid. Like Luke will ever let Ben within a parsec of Jacen alone after what happened in Inferno. Besides, Ben hates Jacen and knows what he's done. He will never be his apprentice. Jacen doesn't get it. Ben KNOWS. And he can deny all he wants. The cat's out of the bag.
  11. Darth_Sabith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2006
    star 4
    Very true...if I was Jacen I would have at lest had two or three prospect if I lost one at lest I'd have two more until I finaly figured out who was truely worthy of being my apprentice.
  12. FearlessJay317 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2007
    I had assumed Jacen was grooming Tahiri to be his apprentice since his plans with Ben fell through. Although he does tend to hope Ben will come around.

    The way I've read this series so far is, and I may get lynched for this one, but this is the Prequel trilogy as it was envisioned by fans. Or, at least, it's closer to what many of us expected from the prequels. When the prequels came about, my friends and I always assumed, like many of us, that basically the films would start with the great war hero, Anakin Skywalker, who gradually turned to the dark side. A Darth Vader that was not born in a day, but born over time.

    You can argue Anakin's story in the actual films is a slow journey to darkness, but I think many of us expected his turn to occur early in the films. I thought we'd meet this great hero who was a little full of himself, and a little lost. By the time the first film ended, or by the end of the second act of the second film, he would have committed some act so heinous, there was no coming back. Then he would take the mantel Lord of the Sith. Then your third film would have been the Empire conquering the galaxy and the great Jedi Purge, where Obi-Wan put him in his robotic cage.

    Anyone else remember talking about similar plot structures with your friends?

    So, for me anyway, Jacen's story is what I've been waiting for in Star Wars. If you just take the books as Betrayel as I, Inferno as II, and Invinceible as III, while the jury is out on III, it's as if I and II fit the exact mold my friends and I were expecting from the prequels. I don't know whether this was planned, or just a happy coincidence, but I see it plain as day.

    I agree, the books should have been condensed, and Jacen does need to actually win a couple of duels with Jedi. Killing Mara, and his atrocities affirm he is powerful. But his power is influence more than skill right now. Which if you really think about it, Vader wasn't that skilled either after he was caged. He could choke a guy, kill an old man (who let him), and take on a half-trained (at best) apprentice, but couldn't have held a candle to the other masters once he was in that suit. His power was fear and influence. Both of which Jacen has in Spades right now. However, to maintain his power, or at least show he can maintain it, he needs to show some real skill against the Jedi. Show them that even without his armada and droids, he is a force to be reconned with.
  13. Lord_Boney Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2007
    star 2
    And that, is the problem with this series. Before Sacrifice, Jacen was slowly turning to the dark, in what seemed (at least to me) a believable scenario. Also, we had deaths. After Mara's death, its seems the authors have gotten scared of killing anyone else. We have Tionne and Kam having multiple limbs being shot off, we have Kyle getting stabbed through the chest, and we have Saba having a grenade shot and her, and yet, they live. Not to mention that post Sacrfice, Jacen has been turned into a slobbering, cliched, Bantam style villian-of- the-month. You can't make a villian credible and terrifiying unless he beats someone, and post Sacrifice, Jacen has been all defeats.
  14. NewStaryknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2007
    star 4
    And what characters can he kill without people complaining about it?
  15. FearlessJay317 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2007
    ^^ I couldn't agree more, Rogue. I felt this impending sense of doom up to and through Inferno. It was this sense that when and if Jacen turned, no one would be safe. Now it seems the opposite happened. He killed one major character, then only red shirts. Granted, we can't have him wipe out the order, but with all the near escapes (Caedus some, and Luke et all) the sense that anything could happen, and anyone could die has been muted. I've enjoyed the books, but the tension needs to be reinforced.
  16. FearlessJay317 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2007
    None. There's no such thing as appeasing everyone. But a short list: Kyle, Saba, Tahiri, Tenel Ka, Boba Fett - if done justice, Kyle, Kyp, etc. etc. And I'm just naming people that could be lost in the paperbacks. As far as I'm concerned, anyone should be fair game.

    Yes, I'm looking at you Skywalker.

  17. Darth_Sabith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2006
    star 4
    Agreed but let's not kill them all if they had Saba or Kyle die in Furry then that sense of worry would still be there but they had them surive things that should not have been possible. Jacen Solo should have been a new noble sith or at lest a Revan + Palpatine+ Vader = Run for your lives he can't be stopped. Instead they are giving us Jacen + Vader + water down Revan + retarded Sith = Um is he a sith or does he need to be in a white coat
  18. NewStaryknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2007
    star 4
    Exactly, its like I said, no matter what road they take, alot of people will be disappointed.
  19. RiggsWolfe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 2
    I don't want to open a can of worms but they can kill anyone and I'll forgive them as long as they destroy the new force stuff from NJO. That was so anti-Star Wars I almost couldn't finish that novel.
  20. FearlessJay317 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2007
    ^^^I read the NJO, but I'm not always certain what people mean by the "new force stuff." Care to share some examples. I know hiding from the force came from there, but I'm not sure what else. Of course, it's been awhile since I read them too.
  21. beccatoria Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2006
    star 4
    Query to the powers that be - what's the current rules for spoiler discussion outside this thread? Is it all right as long as we warn for it and highlight it or is it still restricted to this thread and the review thread only?
  22. RiggsWolfe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 2
    Read Traitor. The whole "there is no Darkside" claptrap that novel had and which darn near derailed the entire fairy tale aspect of Star Wars. That and flow walking are the two biggest mistakes in recent Star Wars EU.

    In my opinion of course.
  23. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4

    Well, that's because he's always been so mushy, so inept interacting with others. He doesn't yell, he screeches, like a punk. I love that he was written all shrill and annoying rather than intimidating.

    Frankly Vader would hand him his butt in a fight, because he is what's realy dangerous: a fist, punching without thinking or relenting, when he's pissed. Jacen think, twirling mustache, "Oh soOOOOOooo (this and that), or, Aha! I am faboo!" The whole time in his fights.
    Vader is more like a propelled machine. He had been beating up kids for their lunch money since his was knee high and also fighting to eat. He had killed in cold blood at 12 and 13 and was almost unstoppable in battle since he was a teen.

    Jacen loafed around bored to death, til he was 35, then listened to some old broad and that was all he needed.
  24. NewStaryknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2007
    star 4
    What did you think the authors deciding to make Jacen turn Sith was all about? There doing to make Jacen the ultimate example that Vergere and the Potentium were full of Bantha fodder. The message is: "If you think there's no dark side, then you will more than likely turn dark. Simple as that". There granting your wish by disestablishing a plot device from the NJO that so many people thought was dumb. Problem is, there not doing a good enough job.
  25. NewStaryknight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2007
    star 4
    Here's a festive question thats way off toipic, but I figure I might as well ask it. Anybody here got their Christmas shopping done yet? I know I haven't.:p
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