The official Legacy of the Force: Invincible discussion thread (spoilers allowed)

Worst case scenario-jaina beheads Jacen in front of Allana. Allana is then reminded of how evil Jedi are and of an event she's probably never actually heard of (Jango Fett) and say 'Mommy I wann be a Mando!'

I still hope Tahiri is acting and that she does Caedus in to redeem herself.

 

But Mandos don't start off that young.

 

I'd be for something similar, but with Jacen a wanderer in the Outer Rim or something, trying to repent through little things and occasionally running into some vengeful Corellians or Mandos, like you said.

 

Why thak you, Master K.

Grandmaster Katarn: YES! Because no one gets the better of Kyle Katarn and lives to gloat...for long.

 

What if we settle with both Zekk and Jagged Fel being killed.

 

Ok, but on one condition. I get to go out with Jaina. Aaaaaaaalright. Giggity-Giggity-Goo.

 

A wander through the thoughts that have come up in this thread... and a few of my own:

1.) Like Darth-Ghost, I'm really worried for Tahiri. She's one of my favourite characters, but her characterization in the previous novel didn't encourage much hope.

This is a character who ought to be given a heroic role as a pillar of the storyline, not damaged because she's not a Skywalker! Will we see it here?

2.) I'm resonably confident the Confederacy will play a role in this. There's going to be a big battle to dislodge Jacen's forces from Roche, if the most detailed of the summaries can be trusted, and I can't believe that it'll just be the Hapans, Mandos and Niathal's rump fleet taking them on.

The big question is whose side is the Empire on, and perhaps, to phrase it differently, who's in charge in Imperial space? That self-same blurb is the only source to say outright that the Imperials at Roche are actually with Jacen, which may be speculation. Jaina, in the preview extract of the novel, was surprised to see the Empire taking action so fast after the events of Revelation.

Their entire pro-Alliance leadership is gone: Pellaeon was single-handedly keeping them alligned with Niathal, and Quille and the group of Moffs who backed the alliance with Jacen were all killed off by Mandalorians.

So either we have some people we've never heard of before suddenly deciding to be pro-Jacen, or some anti-Jacen leaders (I can't believe Phennir has no Imperial connections any more), or else Jacen somehow puts someone in power to embody his own control - perhaps Tahiri, even?



3.) From the Empire, we can move on to consider Team Jaina - Jaina, Jag, Zekk, Leia, Han. Winged_Jedi's suggestion that Jaina-as-Luke actually leads to Jacen killing her is intriguing. The idea of Jaina using a flash-image of Luke's face to distract Jacen would be ironic, but if it was what decided the entire storyline, it would feel slightly like it was planned by committee.

However, I don't think this is really the most well-adjusted strike team. Zekk was consumed by the Dark Side at the end of Fury, and I don't see anything indicating that it spat him back out. Leia's traing under Saba and her attacks on Alema and Tahiri have turned her into someone who's murderously aggressive with a lightsaber - I'd say she's Dark Side too, it's just that she's as semi-detatched from Jedi Order oversight as ever, and Luke doesn't even THINK to worry that his beloved sister might be less than perfect. Jaina may be more fragile than she appears, and much less prepared - "be a different Jaina" isn't a plan; it's Mandalorian cultural bias against Jedi and Core Worlders.

Jag... has been awfully quiet, as a POV character; he's just been given more to do and say than Tahiri, so it's not as obvious. I don't trust him.

And that leaves Han. Who, as we all know, is the real hero of the saga, and is the guy who shoots Sith Lords from the hip. Allston stressed a couple of times just how good his ability with a blaster still is - so I wonder if we'll see some more of that in here.

On the other hand, as someone remarked back in Betrayal, Han really doesn't like or trust the Jedi much. I don't know if that gut instinct's been overcome - or, indeed, if it shouldn't be something he acts more strongly on.

I'd also be interested to know if Han ever REALLY retired from the Defense Force. He should be getting on for senior flag officer of the Fleet by now.

But that's getting away from our topic...

4.) From Team Jaina, to the Jedi Order: is Luke's vision really of Krayt's Empire? It's possible, but we'd have to wait for more details before we can comment...

If it does mean that Luke's actually going to create the situation where the Sith take power, that would be ironic, but not inappropriate. People have been comparing him to Palpatine since The Joiner King.

And, if Team Jaina are up against Jacen, then Luke needs an antagonist - and Star Wars

 

Fine with me, then it agreed.

 

Yes. You are.

 

That is the truth.

 

You know what I want that probably won't happen: Jacen finding Darth Bane's works. I've read all of the legacy of the force books, all the Darth Bane books, and it could happen.

I also want to see Zekk join the dark side to save Jaina. I love this series!!!

EDIT: I want Jacen to win... but Jaina to live and Luke to die (I'm sorry- I don't really, it's somewhat likely to happen...

 

I'd actually forgotten that vision, but yeah, it does certainly work in favor of my theory. Boy, that would be an awesome way to go out on this series, with a correct prediction.

 

I think it'd be kewl if Jacen won. Though that knda leaves the whole "full Cirlce" thing out the window. Unless of course the full circle means this is like the prequel trilogy and the next series is the OT like trilogy.

 

The use of "kewlz" invalidates your opinion.

 

So true!

 

I did not use "kewlz" i used "Kewl," which i use to distinguish from the word cool, meaning slightly cold.

The More You Know!

 

I'm still not sure what Invincible will refer to. I originally thought it meant Luke would be shown to be near invincible, but considering Luke's being sidelined, I doubt it. Caedus is far too stupid to be considered invincible, and... has Jaina done anything notable this series? Then again, Tempest was a bit of an abstract idea (just calling the third LotF novel "trouble brewing" would've been just as descriptive), there wasn't much fury in Fury (more like Sulking, based on Luke's behavior), and... well, the revelations in Revelation were pathetic, since most of them were extremely obvious, even to some of the characters themselves (Jacen being Sith, killing Mara, etc.).

Oh well, just as long as they don't hit us over the head with the actual word invincible unlike what happened with the last novel, with how invincible was mentioned off (and I just hope Naboo isn't brought up again).

 

Thats where I would like to see the direction of a future series. Amost like Angel trying to redeem himself

 

But Jacen is way eviler than Angel ever was.

 

I'm feeling the same way. I'd like her to survive to leave a lingering Sith threat but I'm feeling as if she's probably just been turned Sith last minute to give the book an obligatory Sith kill to allow Jacen to live.

I've been expecting some heavy One Sith references as they seem to have mainly been Dennings thing, so the vision of a new Sith Empire would make sense in that regard.

If it wasn't for the the massive doubts I have that DR would have a cliffhanger at the end of their contract I've actually been thinking the same thing. I keep trying to picture watching ROTS without having seen the OT first, as I can't see anyone seeing the plot twist there coming either. It would be interesting, I'll give it that, I just feel the publishing contract forces the conclusion to be final.

Although... in that interview Denning did say he hadn't decided between the happy ending and the unhappy ending... maybe that was code for "it depends if DR are staying or not".

Ohh... I'd forgotten all about that vision having white-eyes... and now we have a character called White Eyes. Curious. In fact, thinking about the vision itself, it was remarkably similar to the one Cade has where he sees Krayt's face form in the clouds.

 

We can only hope.

I remember the series alluding to a villian whose evil and power reminded Luke of Darth Vader. Whatever happened to that?

 

First, please pardon my spelling here, i'm writing this from a PC at work on my lunch break.

Second.

I wish people would get over the glass half empty syndrome they have with jacen's power.

I look at it from a Glass half full full veiw.


Specificlly, Jacen has had two seperate battles, (Kuat and Centerpoint), where he came within a knat's whisker of winning the war outright He also sucsesfully put a stop to the war of attrition at Kuat with his attack on the wookies, and nearly eliminated one of the most important members of the confederation, (Fondor), and took effective control of the Remenant at the same time, as well as allready controling the GA. He also nearly got the Hapan's in on his side via blackmail. He nearly took control of the Jedi Academy, thus giving himself ma futere source of force sensetivs for his own sith order, and several dozen Jedi apprentices where kiled in the following battle. Heb also fought a vicous duel with Luke where he for the most part held hs own.

Yes he's failed a whole bunch of times, but the key point is, he hasn't failed because he's done anything WRONG. He's failed due to circumstances and actions by oppossition that where beyond his ability to predict. He hasn't failed because he's actually weak, if he was he wouldn't have even ben in a position to nearly win any of these battles. He lost because his opponnent did unexpected or unpredictable thngs, or simply because our merry band of heroes are BETTER heros than he is a villian. That dosen't make him weak, it just means the heroes are very strong.

All IMHO of course.

 

No way. Angelus was going to summon Acathla.

Back onto topic,

I desperately do not want Jacen to win. Would like the redemption thing, especially if it does develop him as a character in a positive way. Maybe he should also drop the Solo name whilst in exile, hence opening up opportunities post Legacy for unknown Solo's to be running around (another plus in my book).

 

The main trouble I have with looking at it from the glass half full perspective is he's still only been Dark Lord of the Sith, what, a couple of months now?

I know from a certain point of view you could take that to mean he has in fact been the most devastating Sith Lord ever considering what he's achieved more in two months than most in their whole lives. I just have trouble feeling that strongly about someone who will have lasted maybe three tops. He may be going up against the greatest Jedi the Order has ever known but it just leaves Caedus looking as if he didn't really have a plan for what to do after ousting Omas and Niathal. Its all well and good seizing power, I'm sure Krayt had many opportunities, but its holding onto it that matters.

Its usually a measure of how many trillions you killed, how many planets you destroyed, how many decades your empire lasted. With Caedus its more Six Day War than World War. The length of time shouldn't matter as Alderaan killed more lives in a single shot than some wars managed in years but normally Star Wars always throws us the attitude of "bigger is better" which I think is why its difficult to appreciate Caedus in light of how most Sith Lords are.

I still wish they'd stuck to their original plan and made LOTF cover three years. Just knowing Caedus had fought dozens of other battles in between novels would have made me respect him a whole lot more. Its just depressing that you can count his victories on your fingers. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, its just he feels like a footnote.

"At an end your rule is, and not short enough it was."

Picture the Yoda/Sidious fight but imagine Yoda won. Thats the main issue I have with Caedus. Had Yoda won, Sidious would have been Emperor all of a few hours.