ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

goes back to my original point about the force, how it works has been interpreted and re interpreted in every single movie, novel, and game, trying to explain how it truly works is impossible besides coming up with theories. Plus I know folks dont like it when fans of the force awakens bring this up, but we dont know if rey is a "noob", she could have been mind wiped as a child, after she first blocks kylo from reading her mind, even he is afraid of how quickly she will learn or remember; remember he tells a stormtropper to hurry up an find her before she figures out what she can really do. Once again that just a theory and could be wrong, we simply dont know yet.

 

How did Luke practice the mind trick? Remember he was with Yoda for a time, so it's entirely possible it was part of the training along with lifting rocks and stuff, it just wasn't enough to beat Vader though because he didn't complete his training.

Now in TFA, all they have to do is close their eyes to have instant Jedi skills without any training whatsoever. It took Ezra 2 seasons to master the mind trick and he has a former Jedi padawan as a master. I guess he forgot he could download it from his mind.

 

Fair enough. Rey's power surge was only one problem I had among several others regarding the finale.

 

For me, the main problems with this movie were the pacing and plot structure.

Pacing
Right out of the gates, it feels like this movie has a train to catch and it seems like the editors took Lucas' old direction of "faster, more intense" to heart. It often feels like the movie doesn't have faith in the audience's attention span as it rapidly shifts from one "urgent matter" to another. Now maybe I'm just not very smart, but I need my films to be slower paced like SW or TESB (but not too slow, like AOTC) in order for me to emotionally process everything that's going on. Like when Han Solo is revealed to be Kylo Ren's father, I needed more time to think about that and contemplate the implications, but the movie is already plowing forward to the next plot point so my brain doesn't really get much time to breathe.

Plot Structure
I thought the beginning of this movie was excellent. Interesting things about old characters are revealed, new characters are introduced, and there is a very tight story. But then, once Han Solo is reintroduced, the tight story falls by the wayside and there are some puzzling decisions made by the filmmakers. For example, it takes 17 whole minutes before we get some semblance of an explanation for what Han Solo is even doing in the movie. Meanwhile, Han shows up, there's an action sequence, and there's some important things revealed about Luke; throughout all of this, all I'm thinking is "Why is Han Solo even here?!". It wasn't until my second viewing of the movie that I caught the throwaway line about Han "tracking the Falcon". But we don't get that until after they land on Maz's planet.

Another puzzling decision was the inclusion of the Rathtar sequence. I mean, the movie is already fast paced and short (only 2 hours) as it is. So why would they waste precious minutes on a scene that is basically just filler? It's not like it's a high-stakes action sequence either because I've watched enough Star Wars to know that Han freaking Solo is not getting killed by some CG tentacle monsters. And that's not to say that all action sequences have to be high-stakes. The Sail Barge scene, for example, was one where the outcome was pretty obvious; but it was still a great scene because it was the movie's way of showing us how powerful and skilled Luke had become. And there was also a certain curiosity about how Han would be rescued. But with the Rathtar sequence, I'm not sure what the movie is trying to tell us. Maybe it's that Han has gone back to smuggling? I guess so, but I'm sure that could've been done in a less time-consuming manner. And if the Rathtar portion had been cut, they could have padded out other important sections to give them some more breathing room.

To make a general comment on the plot, I really wish they would have stuck to the focused narrative of finding Luke. When it was doing this in the beginning, I felt that the movie was on the level of ANH or TESB. But then it seems to forget about Luke in favor of the Starkiller Base story. Or maybe there were cut scenes that would have smoothed the plot transition more. And although I enjoyed the Rey/Kylo/Han/Finn story that took place on SKB, it could have easily been included in a story where the focus was on finding Luke.

Closing Thoughts
Despite the above complaints, I liked this movie. The new characters were interesting and I'm curious to see where they go next. Kylo Ren and Rey are especially fascinating and I can't wait to see how Luke will factor into all this. You may have noticed that my complaints don't include anything about the "rehash" arguments I've heard so much about. And that's because I don't think they hold much water. Sure there are some recycled visuals and elements, but the overall tone of the movie is vastly different to any previous movie, especially ANH. I mean, just look at where each protagonist is at the end of the movie and tell me what's actually similar to what:


That being said, I do feel that TFA's problems were not on an idea-level, but more on an execution-level. Specifically, I think they manifested in the editing room. And that's ironic because I've often heard that the original Star Wars was saved in editing. On the other hand, I think that TFA's script/acting and actual production were excellent, but the movie was hampered by the editing; things that should've been cut were included, and things that should've been included were cut. And that somewhat disappoints me because I know that this was so close to being an excellent movie. But I guess I'll have to settle for just a good movie. Hopefully Rian Johnson's comment about how Episode VIII explores the characters more is true and we finally get another ANH/TESB-tier Star Wars movie.

As for my movie rankings, TFA is one of those "good" movies that I think has serious flaws which hold it back from being excellent. My pre-TFA rankings were:
1.) SW
2.) TESB
3.) ROTJ
4.) ROTS
5.) TPM
6.) AOTC
And I still haven't decided on a placement for TFA. All I know right now is that it's below TESB and above TPM. I'll probably need to watch it more to come up with a more specific rank.

 

I totally agree with you on the pacing issues. I feel the first 30 minutes of the movie were very well paced, we are introduced to all the main new players in short order, and are giving their motivations very quickly and the characters are set up nicely to me; especially rey, bc JJ shows her loneliness and wanting more out of life with very little dialogue. He also shows that she can take care of herself and is a savvy woman, it also helps that her score is the best in the film at least to me. Where the pacing issues begin ironically is when han is introduced, not so much bc of him and chewy but bc of the men in black scene. From that pt on the pacing is all over the place and doesnt settle down again until after rey's force dream and her first meeting with kylo

 

Now that's a proper criticism of TFA. Well said. I also believe that the film could have been one of the greatest in the saga had J.J. trusted the "find Luke" story, and dispensed with the SKB detour.

 

Alright, this is going to be slightly odd, but I do have a question:

WHY is Luke important? Luke is the last Jedi (probably not, but is supposed to be based on ROTJ). But, what importance does he really play? Sure, there are 'New' not-Sith type people.... and I understand that the FO wants to take him out, because he is the last Jedi.... so is that the only reason why he is important? I can understand Leia trying to find her brother.. but R2 is RIGHT THERE. You can't download anything from him while he is in low power mode?

FOr me, I was really hoping with the death of the Sith, and Luke being the last.. we were going to move away from the Jedi/Sith thing for a bit. Like, Kylo being a force sensitive, that found a lightsaber, but is trying to emulate rather then actually having training, and it mostly be about the Republic vs the FO. But I guess that was just me...

 

the one thing I will give to JJ when it came to his deathstar is at least it did some real damage before it was blown up. SKB took out most of the republic fleet and core worlds not to mention 90 percent of the leadership,his at least got some of the job done and evened the playing field or even put the FO ahead of the game

 

"Luke Skywalker himself posed a challenge to the character who became Rey while Arndt was working on the early iterations of the film. In early drafts of the story, Arndt wrote that Rey's home was destroyed and she goes off a journey where she meets Luke and then defeats the villain. Arndt felt like Luke's presence upstaged Rey, thinking that every time Luke entered a scene he overshadowed her character because the audience would want to know more about him. Ultimately, the writers chose to make Luke the MacGuffin of the film, with Rey's journey culminating in discovering Luke in exile" [x]

 

Something I just realized might have been a cooler idea for Jakku is if they created entire communities out of the wreckage of the battle from three decades prior. Rey's AT-AT dwelling sparked this thought for me, and it also seems strange that the walker was seemingly taken down on its own in isolation. Perhaps creating former battlefields into villages could have contributed to giving Jakku its own identity rather than the somewhat generic Nima Outpost. You would think the locals of the planet would jump at the chance to inhabit structures that would keep them out of the sun.

 

that would have been very visually striking, we really didnt see much of the planet jakku. we saw one outpost, a star destroyer, rey's home, and a crash site. between just anh and jedi we saw a whole bunch of tatooine between lukes home, obi wan's home, the village and cantina, launch pad, the sand pits, the barge, jabba' palace. not to mention what we saw in the prequels. We really saw very little of jakku in contrast

 

Well, I think part of the point was to show that Nima outpost was a very, very small backwater compared to the wide world Rey was about to see. So there was a thematic rationale, I think. That said, your idea is a strong one.

 

Interesting... I like it!

p.s - I always read your posts in Dr Ian Malcolms voice!

 

Taken individually, any one of the gob-smacking mistakes which were forced upon us in TFA..... SKB...Mary Sue...Doing the 'right thing' ....Darth Emo....Flash Dameron...No answers ...No background...Because I said so...insipid score...re-hash....Tone...Acting...Pace ....Delivery....Charater decimation...Lack of imagination...Hyper reverence...'Upgraded classic spacecraft'....90degree turns ....Chicken shoot accuracy....Etc Etc Etc..could maybe have been forgiven. But no, all together and done with such money grabbing flippancy, it is among the the most insultingly facile films of the 21st century.
Ever wondered why they're not doing one of those spoof parody movies like Scary/Epic/Spanish movie? It's already been done and it's called The Force Awakens!

 

LOL

 

I'm sorry but I'd say that this is a pretty concise list of complaints about TFA on the 'List your complaints about TFA' thread. The fact that they are listed so is exactly my point and the longer I think about it the more complaints come to mind which is why it is so unpardonable. I am not in fact 'spewing hate' nor 'bashing', merely expressing the depth of passion which I feel about TFA and if my subjective critique of the film is unwelcome here on the completely impartial speaking on behalf of Disney executives Jedi council forum then I apologise.

 

I like your opinion, it's not an insulting one, but it goes against TFA, not against the PT (hence the infantile Jar Jar picture which really fits the topic) and you were warned.

You must learn which SW movies are bad and against which not to complain to.

 

The point of the oft-posted Jar Jar tongue candy image is to quickly refute the idea that Star Wars has suddenly become crassly commercial, as if prior to 2013 it was all about the art, man.

 

The clue is in the title: "list your complaints" is in inverted commas, and the thread is a discussion thread, meaning contributions should provoke discussion - there's no expectation that you should be able to simply list one word complaints without elaborating or throwing the discussion to the crowd.

Amongst the listed complaints were "Mary Sue" which is a term that became coded sexism on here, and so needs to be used carefully if at all, as well as things like "no background", and vague things like "tone"; the word "tone" isn't a complaint, and it's actually bloody rude to expect people to try to infer meaning in order to understand and then accept or discuss such complaints.

For my money the "list" in the title means that the thread should itself be a list of complaints which are then discussed. Not that a single post should be the way in which someone does an info dump of their issues. On this page we have an articulate, thoughtful critique of TFA which I agree with some parts of, disagree with others. That's interesting.
The word "tone" alongside several other one word complaints doesn't make interesting reading for anyone.

It should go without saying, but considering there has been pretty much seven months of non-stop complaints about TFA, it's a bit disingenuous to claim that it's considered above criticism by the authorities on here

 

What isn't crassly commercial? We live in a neo-liberal society saturated with rampant consumerism which was instilled, quite deliberately, in the 1950's and on the whole we've swallowed it hook, line and sinker, but that's beside the point.
If the prequels failed, it was down to bad acting, poor character choices, zeitgeist and pandering to the whims of the consumers at the time. That said however I do believe they tried, and tried very hard to create something dignified and worthy of merit. The same can not be said for TFA, which is a cynical, lazy, half hearted cash grab with no respect for either the seventh art or the Star Wars legacy.

 

Foregoing the rant about neoliberalism, what allows you to look deep into the souls of both Lucas and Abrams and divine that one aimed "to create something dignified and worthy of merit" while the other aimed at cynicism and a "cash grab"?

Edit: And please tell me your signature is meant ironically.