ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

Yep.

 

I think Rey's character had some great potential. Look at how she was raised. A junk collector in my mind would be a person who is quite suspicious of others because they have been betrayed and swindled often, someone with a hardened shell. At the same time, a junk collector won't have access to school, so they would know very little about the alphabet, math or history etc. Instead, they would have a lot of practical knowledge of machines and how to make repairs (because everything breaks down in the desert). Maybe a junk collector knows how to steal as that is also a necessary survival skill in the harsh desert.

Those would be some great hurdles to overcome for a future Jedi.

Unfortunately, the hardened shell loner part is dropped very quickly in the film. Rey goes from suspicious of people (how she meets Finn) to softy who immediately wants to help a resistance she doesn't know or have reason to care. Oh, and she is a genius in everything which doesn't make much sense considering her background as basically garbage collector. The "desert dweller" aspect of her completely disappears in the later film.

 

"The "desert dweller" aspect of her completely disappears in the later film."

Well, quite. She isn't in a desert. And after the (there to see on screen) development of her story from waiting endlessly there for something that's not going to come, to letting go and joining a bigger cause that seems to be part of her destiny, I'm not sure how the film would be improved by somehow being sure to keep Rey as a desert dweller.

 

That's not character development for me. It's her being whatever the plot currently demands with disregard towards her background. There's nothing remotely organic about it.

 

Which bits disregarded her background? Was it the bit where she told Finn she needed to go back to Jakku?
Or the bit where Han offered her a job, and despite being really excited by the idea, turned it down to decide go back to Jakku?
Or perhaps the bit where Maz Kanata looked into Rey's eyes and perceived that she was clinging on to the idea of waiting for something that wasn't coming back, imploring her to look forward?
Or the bit where she had flashbacks to her past and her future, and immediately rejected the symbol of her apparent destiny in favour of going off on her own again, presumably intending to run straight back to her old life?
Or the bit in Starkiller Base where she climbs around by herself, escaping her plight with clear visual allusions to the way she spent her time in derelict star destroyers on Jakku?
Or the bit where she's utterly distraught that the man she embraced as a new father figure is killed, leaving her lost again?

Or just specifically the bit where manages to overcome those fears and anxieties to save the day, in the family action adventure fantasy film?

 

*sigh*
You're just trolling now, for whatever reason in a thread called "list your complaints about TFA". I've already exhaustively explained how her character doesn't fit the background it was given.
Since you have nothing worthwhile left to say, I will just ignore you from now on.

 

The "discussion thread" part of the title means that complaints are open to discussion and debate, and not just sage nodding from people who agree with you.
I'm not trolling (I'm not sure how expressing a view I genuinely hold on an appropriate forum in a mildly flippant way can be seen as trolling), but fine, feel free to ignore.

 

Really, you think parroting back my own words to me and listing facts that have nothing to do with what I've been actually criticising isn't trolling? I've never taken issue with the whole "Rey wants to stay on Jakku" thing, it's all the other aspects of her character that bother me.

 

CEB you asked if I was serious about listing saber stances/techniques as yet another thing the character Rey has contradicted. The answer is Yes, of course. Why wouldn't I be? It's just one of the many aspects of Jedi/Sith training that the incompetent writers decided Rey would simply ignore in favour of learning years worth of skills in matter of hours. It's not only contradictory, it's actually insulting to the lore.

@Darth_Preva - I totally agree with your points on Rey. It's a shame you haven't been getting much discussion on it above, just weak and futile attempts at defending TFA along with borderline trolling.

I find the character of Rey to have absolutely no depth or development whatsoever, based on TFA of course, it could and hopefully will change. Apart from the fact she simply fits any moment of the plot she is required to, most of the problem is that she is just so stereotypical, we've seen it all before in every genre there is. So she is very unoriginal but isn't even written well either. You would think if writers were playing it so safe they could at least write an apex stereotype well, but no.

I think we have disagreed on this before but I find the only character with any hint of depth to be Kylo. Yes the themes surrounding him are also tired and have been done many times before, but at least some of his motivations ect are partly explained unlike the predictable, shallow Rey or strangely idiotic Finn. Then there was Snoke, who of course adds more intrigue than any depth, but he and Kylo were the only ones who kept me from switching the movie off.

 

"The incompetent writers"

I'm sorry, but I refuse to engage with stuff like this that directly insults the writers and actors. I'm pretty sure you've been asked to tone it down.

 

I wouldn't be offended if someone wrote 'the amazing writers' or 'the writing is so great'. You have very thin skin for someone posting on a forum.

 

Fortunately I like more characters than you seem to like, I generally enjoyed Finn and Han Solo as well as Kylo in parts, even though I agree that they often went overboard regarding Finn when it came to humorous scenes. Was it really necessary to have him drink out of the swine pond? I find far more interesting his fear towards the first order and how he run away to later find the courage and fight for his love. Sure it's not an original arc but for me that part worked.

I even think Rey can be turned into a better character in the next movies if her flaws are played up more and have actual consequence. While her running away from the lightsaber vision could be seen as such a moment, there is almost no negative consequence for her as she manages to free herself quite easily.

Maybe she used the hope that her parents would return as a way to run away from her personal responsibility? It's easier to pray for a better life than to work towards it, after all. That could be an aspect worth exploring in VIII.

 

A well articulated complaint.
I can see your point about her dropping her guard too easily, but at the same time, the movie seems to suggest that she does know about the Resistance and even admires it. Her response to Finn's claim that he's a Resistance fighter certainly hints at it. What's more, hearing Luke Skywalker's name clearly catches her interest. Again, I can understand why this isn't enough for you to accept her willingness to join the cause, but for me, it totally works. It's as though something awakens within her, like some small part of her knows that her destiny is tied to Luke. Remember that she's been seeing visions of the planet he's on, much like Luke seemed to have seen Dagobah in his dreams. I think this is because Luke has been watching over her the same way Yoda watched over him.

Maybe, hopefully, some of these things will be explained early on in EpVIII. Either way, though, this isn't the first time Star Wars has handled motivations with subtlety.

 

I don't believe it to be real subtlety. I think she was made this good to fit the hero mould.

 

I'm not offended in the slightest; I just don't think it's conducive to good discussion to directly insult the people who created the film about which we debate. "The incompetent writers" or "the unknown actors who should have stayed unknown" are statements that invite only debate about whether or not it's OK to conduct discourse in that fashion on here; and that's a debate that's already been settled on the last few pages on this thread; as an honest observation, your continued use of such phrases comes over as if you've got your eye on boundary pushing rather than discussion.
(It's worth bearing in mind, too, that a "thin skin" or sensitivity, is not in itself a barrier to posting on this forum, which is a community which welcomes thin and thick skinned people - the aim is for people to conduct themselves responsibly, not for everyone to grow a thick enough skin to render insults OK)

Darth_Pevra an issue I don't have but can understand is that the film struggled to get the tone of Finn's character calibrated just right - his journey is quite uneven for some. Not a problem for me, but I can see that for some, if the gut feeling is that he's been portrayed as a ridiculous/comedy character, that there is enough in the film to make that a plausible criticism

 

I agree about Rey Preva, the character can be saved in the future movies and I hope it happens. As I have said though the only way I can see her development cancelling out the huge contradictions of TFA is if she is already a Jedi who has had previous training. Whether she is a padwan who Luke mind wiped due to her huge potential and the danger that put her in or if she is his daughter and done it for the same reason, it doesn't matter too much. The main thing is the previous training and lightsaber/force skills.

 

Not offended CEB but remember something I wrote days ago. Those are my opinions on the writers and actors, I'm not judging or insulting anyone who disagrees, unless they are insulted by the very notion of someone criticising the movie, which very much seems to be the case here.

You have yet to ever engage in a discussion with me and even told yourself that my criticism is simply boundary pushing! Like there's no way someone can actually hate the movie is there? That's pretty ridiculous.

Why not attempt some actual discussion rather than relentlessly trying and failing to defend each and every criticism?

 

kenobisdeed : Yes, actual discussion is good, but you need to keep in mind that you do have a recent history in here that got you warned for snarky and snide comments directed at other users because they liked TFA. We don't allow baiting, trolling, or outright bashing (of the movies, the people involved in making them, etc.).

Having said all that, you and CEB should feel free to discuss... just keep it friendly and on-topic.

 

C-3P0 wasn't as highly polished. That's why he looked "plasticly".

 

Oh, come on. Everyone loves Venom 3P0.

 

He does look a bit off, doesn't he? Especially in his first scene.
I can accept that as a result of dust and grime, though.

 

The reason 3PO looks weird is the matte finish, and frankly he seems to have gained some weight, not a lot but enough to be noticeable. They should have stuck with the shiny finish, I understand it is more difficult to shoot, but we have fancy computers these days that can touch up that kind of stuff.

 

AD is no spring chicken. He should only voice 3P0 now. He needs to pass the torch like KB did.

 

I think I remember reading something about how JJ Abrams initially offered for him to just voice him in TFA, but he said would only agree to be in the film if he could perform him as well.