ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

As do the numerous times "I have a bad feeling about this" appears. All it needs is someone remarking that they always say that.

(Although that was already done, sort of, by James Cameron on Aliens)

 

The fourth wall remains unbroken.

 

Except for Han's "Wow" to the camera when he uses Chewie's weapon for the first time. (It's for a millisecond, but it's there)

 

Really, he looks at the camera? I thought he just looked directly at Chewbacca.

 

He definitely doesn't look at the camera. LOL that would have been insane if any actor looked into the lens and talked, he definitely was remarking to Chewie.

 

Really there's no clear boundary between breaking the forth wall and meta references, you look at most definitions for the former and it will include the latter as well as performers talking directly to the audience.

In terms of TFA I think its very clearly more meta than the OT, Han makes a few funny references to always being in dangerous situations but stuff like the SKB briefing and the "wow" I think clearly go beyond that. These aren't really isolated issues though for me so much as a fundamental part of the way the film is made, Abrams style for me is simply less serious than the OT(and Trek outside of maybe the Voyage Home although even that had a serious core to it) looking to both created a more over the top cartoonish world/story that plays very strongly on the audiences knowledge of the franchise.

The thing is for the majority of viewers I don't think this is really a problem at all, they wanted something entertaining after the PT and this fit the bill even if it was IMHO a return to the OT in either fundamental film making style or quality.

 

i respectfully disagree, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Because one's opinion is different than yours doesn't mean they simply "have too much time on their hands". Also, this is the "official list your complaints thread" so.... yea.

 

I think the 2nd half of the movie is really bad , it's like they had written half a story and then went - 'well what are gonna put in the 2nd half ?' and they just piled in Force powers for Rey which was just dumb and DS3 'cos - well just because .

 

I wasn't crazy about how much the Falcon goes through without needing major repairs. First Rey flies it with some close calls and then Han flies it through trees and crash lands it.

 

I'll definitely wait and see how the trilogy plays out before I complain too hard about this next one but:

how is it that Jedi Temples are created so that the galaxies most force sensitive individuals can spend decades learning the ways of the Force - but Rey can close her eyes and quietly whisper the word "Force" to herself and she is instantly a Jedi Master who can take down a Master of the Knights of Ren who slaughtered the last wave of Jedi? (I know he was shot with a bowcaster, but still...) Not to mention knowing how to mind-trick, grab the lightsaber with the Force, etc etc.

I know that she may have a backstory that explains her instant knowledge of Jedi traits that would take other Jedi half a lifetime to master - so I haven't let it spoil the film for me. But as it currently stands, c'mon...way to undermine the entire Jedi Order for the sake of plot convenience and "oh cool lightsabers!!"

 

Its interesting that people excuse The Force Awakens for not explaining things and saying "well, its okay nothing was explained because the next installment will explain it all" - but somehow Prometheus doesn't get the same treatment...Instead that is just a bad film. But its okay if TFA does it.

I also don't understand why people think Ep.8 and 9 will magically explain everything and justify all the gaps within TFA. There is absolutely no guarentee that the next films will explain everything, there is no promise made by the studio "dont worry fans, we will tell everyone about how Maz got the lightsaber from Bespin". And you can never trust the studios to make a good sequel these days. Franchise films are notorious for letting hardcore fans down all the time. Its sad we went from OT, the greatest Sci Fi films of all time to now just becoming another blockbuster next to Jurassic Park, Terminator, Harry Potter, Star Trek, Men in Black, Fast and Furious, etc.... There was a time where Star Wars original trilogy films were beyond all other big films.

 

As I'v said before even if the following films do a good job of explaining her background I don't think that will get past the weaknesses in TFA.

The problem for me isn't just that the basis of Rey's ability aren't explained but that the film doesn't do a very good job selling us the mystery in the first place and what importance they have generally. Really what is there in TFA to tell us that Rey is developing force abilities much more quickly without training compared to what we've previously seen? only our knowledge of the previous films which for many might well be sketchy whilst things like Kylo's comments on Rey's developing powers if anything seem to suggest this isn't abnormal for a force user.

More importantly though the film spends very little time building up what Rey's abilities mean to the her and the wider plot. Rey having force abilities isn't suggested in any meaningful way prior to meeting Maz and even when that happens what do we get? she gets a scary vision that makes some very vague references to Luke and Kylo that she rejects in fear, hardly a strong motivation. Rey's seemingly unlearnt force abilities should have been a MUCH bigger plot point than that IMHO, we should have seen them in some fashion much earlier than that and they should have been linked to her abandonment and stoked her desire to find Luke much more strongly. Instead we got an action/humour/nostalgia thrill ride IMHO and as with Han's death Abrams preffered to take the cheap root just depend on our existing attachment to the characters rather than building his own drama well.

Without looking at the details too exactly I think made in a fashion more akin to the OT something like the following could have taken the basic framework of TFA and used it more effectively...

Poe captured as happened but only released by Finn rather than having him fully defect.

Much longer spent building up Rey showing her having dreams/visions of her abandonment linking it to Luke/Kylo more definitely and potentially showing her having some involuntary force abilities that the locals fear her for.

Rey finds BB-88 and then briefly meets Poe and agrees to help him get passage to the republic but refuses to come with him.

First order attacks and separates Rey/BB-8 and Poe, the former shows some skill defending herself but is ultimately saved from being killed by Finn fully turning.

More distrust between the two of them and there overheard discussing the situation a bit latter by Han who's rather listlessly hanging on Jakku(maybe doing some small deal or just in a bar). They talk a bit with some suggestions of history before the FO attack and Han escapes with them in the Falcon.

Han talks to Rey more about Ben/Kylo and Luke suggesting that finding the latter may offer the answers she's after and maybe the potential to control her abilities and they stop at some kind of waypoint to meet with republic forces, Han gives Rey Luke's LS that he left with him.

The FO attacks again and Kylo manages to kidnap Rey before the republic forces turn up, Finn is treated with extreme suspicion when is background is revealed but Poe speaks up for him. Han/Leia discuss Kylo as in the film although we've heard more of it beforehand.

Han/Finn and a republic force attempt to rescue Rey from a first order base although she helps with her own escape as in the film using her force abilities more actively. Kylo kills Han and they fights with Rey and Finn, they don't defeat him but rather barely manage to escape from him working together.

Return to republic base and either have Rey leaving to search for Luke or the ending we got.

So no SKB at all and no Resistance, just the Republic(or the Alliance if you want more of an OT reference) which at the start of the film is already in a weakening position without Luke and with the rise of the FO. No Maz at all either with filling more of a mentor role and generally being a bit wiser and more world weary.

 

ahhh thought you were talking about another scene where george literally added little mice running on tattooine. but regardless, i dont really find that too goofy but id say that is about as goofy as the OT gets. minus Ewok shenanigans.

 

Here is the major issue IMO. Rian Johnson could be Jesus Christ himself, and the greatest filmmaker of all time, and yet he STILL has to carry on what JJ and friends gave us in TFA. We still have an Empire rip off, an uber untrained jedi, 2 main characters who essentially have no characteristics at all minus a shallow outline (empathetic Finn, hotshot pilot Poe), A Rebellion rip off. A Darth Vader the 2nd but more inconsistent, a Emperor rip off with bad plastic surgery, and the WORST addition to the canon, a possible Sulking Luke Skywalker who is guilt ridden and completely stayed out of the atrocities and genocide that took place during the first ST film. Rian Johnson could have thought up the greatest SW film of all time, but he is constrained by these story points. It is him that has to explain what the hell happened at Luke's jedi academy (sigh, i cant believe they actually gave luke his academy to have it be a complete failure right off the bat) and it is Rian Johnson who has to convince the audience that Luke Skywalker, the last jedi who stood up to Vader and the Emperor to attempt to save his loved ones and the galaxy, was in character when he chilled out on Ahch To during the events of TFA. I mean unless Luke is protecting some cryptic satanic weapon of some sort on that Island, it really just feels like a fruitless task and im quite surprised that after reading the story for TFA and this ST that Rian Johnson was interested at all. but maybe he realized the only way these new films will have any success is if a competent storyteller enters the fold and attempts to clean up the mess. i would have ran the **** outta there after reading that first script. but that's just me. dont get me wrong, i hope Episode 8 is good. i just dont think it really even has a shot at being anything close to as great as the OT gave us due to what TFA set in motion.

 

I guess someone knows what they'll not be watching in a year and in thirty months time then.

 

His eyes scan over the camera lens. It's for a millisecond. Abrams even points it out in the commentary to highlight the fact that only Harrison Ford can pull that off and get away with it.

 

ill watch it regardless. its star wars. ill never not watch star wars. it's that dear to my heart. but it's because it's that dear to my heart that ill be going in with lower expectations than i had going into TFA. and ive pretty much loved every Rian Johnson film.

 

Its a hell of a mountain to climb no question and it's only Rians 3rd or 4th feature film so he's not exactly an experienced general at bat. I think as long as MaRey Sue is fixed up and turned into a real character with flaws and not the perfect badass action heroine troupe and the blatant homages are limited that will be a giant step in the right direction.

What worries me already are the signs that point to it being a semi Empire rehash.... Rey spends most of film training and learning ways of the force with Luke ala his own journey with Yoda meanwhile Finn and company go to Cloud City I mean a Casino Planet to save Han Solo oops I mean Leia from the clutches of the Empire. Rey at some point leaves to go "save" her friends. There are also rumblings of some sort of Asteroid belt space fight as well once again similar to Empire. Not to mention there will most DEFINITELY be some giant soap opera I Am Your Father twist at the end regarding the parental relationship of Rey that we can already see coming a mile away.

The odds thanks to JJ are VERY much stacked against Rian. Godspeed.

 

I'll trust Lawrence Kasdan and his assessment of the transition from Star Wars to Empire. 36 years of hindsight has allowed people to normalise the whole original trilogy and idealise its conception and development from beginning to end. But the task he and Kershner were given was considerably more difficult than the one you are trying to describe.

The first movie WAS considered funny, goofy but exhilarating and eye-opening movie. It ends triumphantly with all the good guys surviving, even Obi Wan is safe and in fact more powerful by the end of it and its Riefenstahlesque rally.

It was a challenge, to audience's expectations as well as the and the director's, to go from that and drag Luke's vanilla, eunuch-like character down into a considerably darker, nominally more cerebral and ambiguous tale but retain the whit and character that had been established in A New Hope, so that it would be convincing when everything goes to hell. Han goes from a cynical mercenary to someone how is actually a nice guy who just acts like a cynical mercenary and scoundrel. etc

I think the anxiety over how a Rian Johnson could possibly make a Rian Johnson type picture following the outcome of TFA is unnecessary and slightly disingenuous, considering that he has already been working on the film for about two years.

 

Maybe Finn is like an involuntary mole who had his brain cleaned? Remember Total Recall? They wiped out his brain, enabled his deflection from the First Order so that he would eventually join the rebels, where he'd eventually be tracked and the rebels wiped out??? Or he could lead them into a trap?

Snoke's bad CGI moments to me were a clue that his character is trying to project power he does not possess, the bad graphics struck me poorly at first, but later I felt it was a clue.

Some people hated the R2D2 power down mode thing. During Rey's flash back, you can see Luke Skywalkers hand on R2D2 and it almost looks like he is hitting a button to power him down? Maybe to keep the droid inactive and safe? Luke wants to be found when the time is right perhaps.

Rey is obviously not really named Rey. She is lying to people left and right, who knows what truth she is keeping. She knows a lot about ships and piloting them because she found an advance simulator program on Jakku inside of a ship. This program enabled her to practice flying every ship available. As evidenced by her scratch mark calendar, she has had many days to learn whatever she could on Jakku. At the end of TFA, we do realize that Luke knows Rey. She may have been preparing all along.

 

I'm a bit in the middle with regards to Ryan Johnson's prospects, I think Abrams has left him with a lot of exposition to handle although this in itself can be effective if handled well and a rather uninspired collection of villians and ill defined heroes. That said I don't believe there's anything terminally wrong as I can see how these things might be used more effectively, Snoke especially could be a wizard of oz style situation.

I think actually the biggest worry I have is whether Johnson will be allowed to have a free hand to take the ST in a more serious direction more akin to the OT or whether Disney will insist that he sticks to Abrams style, Rogue One might be somewhat telling there I spose, especially if we get indepth info on what the reshoots focused on.

Honestly if Disney are smart I think they'll see Abrams style has a limited lifespan, it works well as a one shoot deal with viewers want a fun piece of nostalgia after a disappointing(for many) series of entries into the franchise but when you get past that people start to want more.

 

Last time I checked, the writer/director teams for Episodes VIII and IX were already picked and Abrams wasn't in them. (He's an exec producer on VIII because that movie follows directly after the Episode he did co-script and direct)

 

Well, I'm sorry you're not enjoying it as much as most of us. Perhaps Rian, like most us, really enjoys the new characters and the stry they are in. I've been a Star Wars fan since 1977, and to, this is in the top three, easily beating out ROTJ, and maybe edging out ANH. Love. It. Can't wait for Eight!